Luke Hodge - Hall of Fame Legend Status?

[Procrastinator35]

Lifted us in 2013, and basically won us the match on one leg. Carried us in 2010 and was let down by Henderson and some other shocking moments.

Up there as one of the competition's elite from 2009-2012. Was always up there with Swan and Ablett in this time. Wasn't just some decent player in a very mediocre team. You're clueless.

So basically Judd was one of the best we've seen from 2004-2007 and then had a second period where he was still up there as an elite player. Meanwhile Hodge has never really got near that level of consistency.

But yeah, mention team accolades because somehow they're relevant to an individual.

I hope for your sake you're still drunk from yesterday's win.

Yeah....Nah.

Sorry mate....But Judd the West Coast player & Judd the Carlton player post injuries are planes apart.

From 2002-2006 he was the no 1 Jet....Thereafter he was a mere 3/4 of the player he once was.

Led Carlton from mediocrity to the wooden-spoon....Meanwhile, Podge has led us from basement dwellers to 4 flags & counting. & he continues to grow in stature as a leader/player in big games each year, while Juddy's star has burnt out entirely.

 

[PP34]

Yeah....Nah.

Sorry mate....But Judd the West Coast player & Judd the Carlton player post injuries are planes apart.

From 2002-2006 he was the no 1 Jet....Thereafter he was a mere 3/4 of the player he once was.

Led Carlton from mediocrity to the wooden-spoon....Meanwhile, Podge has led us from basement dwellers to 4 flags & counting. & he continues to grow in stature as a leader/player in big games each year, while Juddy's star has burnt out entirely.

Judd at Carlton was still a top 3-4 player, and in 2010 and 2011 he was only behind Ablett and maybe Swan. Stop making it out like he turned into a 12 disposal a game battler or something.

The fact that Hawthorn fans continually write off his Carlton years is pathetic. He was so good at West Coast that of course anything he did at Carlton was always going to pale in comparison, with his groins being an issue.

No he led Carlton from the bottom of the barrel to within a kick of a prelim, and then injuries ruined the 2012 side, and he gave away the captaincy. He had little to do with the past two years. I'm really baffled as to how Judd's end to his career has anything to do with this argument regardless. Injuries ruined him from 2012 till his retirement, while Hodge has luckily been able to either avoid injuries, or go through long stretches of the season not having to do a whole lot.

Yeah must have been a real tough gig for Hodge having the likes of Franklin, Mitchell, Rioli, Roughead, Gibson, Lake etc there to help win flags. Plus an extremely good coach in Clarkson at the helm.

Hodge hasn't carried Hawthorn by himself to flags. Please stop making out like he has. You're carrying on as if he's Gary Ablett Jr kicking ten and carrying his side. Making yourself look stupider and stupider.

 

[Procrastinator35]

[QUOTE="nbaman1, post: 41319351, member: 93042"
He was so good at West Coast that of course anything he did at Carlton was always going to pale in comparison, with his groins being an issue.
[/QUOTE]

Correct!

Lets simplify it for you then....Would you prefer Judd's career or Hodge's?....Now lets see whose wearing their Blues beer-goggles!

 

[PP34]

[QUOTE="nbaman1, post: 41319351, member: 93042"
He was so good at West Coast that of course anything he did at Carlton was always going to pale in comparison, with his groins being an issue.

Correct!

Lets simplify it for you then....Would you prefer Judd's career or Hodge's?....Now lets see whose wearing their Blues beer-goggles![/QUOTE]
Yet his peak Carlton days were still better than Hodge's peak years.

Well of course, you would rather four flags. That still has nothing to do with the argument.

This is like beating my head against a wall. You just don't get it.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Yet his peak Carlton days were still better than Hodge's peak years.

Well of course, you would rather four flags. That still has nothing to do with the argument.

This is like beating my head against a wall. You just don't get it.[/QUOTE]

No I get it well enuf:

Judd (W/C 02-06)>>>Podge & everyone else!
Podge (2007 onwards)>>> Judd....Easily & no contest.

 

[Roby]

Why do people go on about his "lack of AA selections?"

He wasnt AA this year, but how'd he go? Was also robbed in 2013.

Also Hodge at times was in the top 3 players in the comp, in 2010 he was 2nd in MVP and in 2008 you could have mounted a case too.

He was also statistically the second best player according to Champion Data as far back as 2005 behind Barry Hall. He's had outstanding seasons further exemplified by his finals and standing up in big games. He has sacrificed individual honours and his game to move to positions to help the team. This is why he is a three time premiership captain. It's not a fluke.

As far as I know Luke Hodge totals more champion data points (586) than any other player in history for Grand Finals (I can't gets stats when Brisbane made four grand finals, I'm guessing Voss, Aker and Black would be up there). Mitchell is the next best (502) and then Chapman (459).

Below are the top averaging by Champion Data players for Grand Final since 2007:

Goddard 150

Hayes 144

Ablett 124

Pendelbury 118

Hodge 117

Chapman 115

Mitchell 100

Selwood 96

Hodge has come injured in two of his grand finals, and still ranks fifth on average and leads by total points. Three of his grand finals he's scored the best in two games, and second in another.

And this just his personal output which does not take into consideration his leadership. Even in 08' he may not have been the captain but was still the spiritual leader of the club. He has led them into five grand finals and four premierships. There is only two players in history who have captained more premierships, Tuck and Reynolds with four each, and only two other players have done three. Very rare air.

 

[Monkey King]

Lets simplify it for you then....Would you prefer Judd's career or Hodge's?....Now lets see whose wearing their Blues beer-goggles!

Easy! I would prefer Judd's career in Hodge's team.

 

[Monkey King]

Here's the thing with that, Hodge hasn't actually performed any better than his contemporaries in finals other than having 2 Norm Smiths (based on subjective panel judging). Mitchell could just as easily have 2 (was just as good as Hodge last year, was possibly better than Cyril yesterday. IMO there is little to no proof that he has performed above and beyond Ablett, Judd, Pendles or Johnson in finals in the past decade.The difference is that he has experienced great team success.

To show that this isn't coming from an anti-Hawks point of view, it is Mitchell that has been your best finals player over the journey and it is he who actually lifts his output (statistically supported- unlike Hodge) during finals games compared to regular season games. If you were to argue about a player from this dynasty being discussed as a legend- it would be Mitchell, who most Hawk fans and non-Hawks fans have regarded as the superior player from a few years into their careers right up til now. Hodge is a better leader no doubt, but Mitchell is the superior footballer.

A voice of reason. Pretty much every point you made here is spot on.