Luke Hodge v Chris Judd

[andrew_]

The best player in their prime is clearly Judd, but Hodge has had a better overall career in terms of consistency and accolades.

 

[Trav 20]

The best player in their prime is clearly Judd, but Hodge has had a better overall career in terms of consistency and accolades.

No, he hasn't.

 

[TazHawk15]

The best player in their prime is clearly Judd, but Hodge has had a better overall career in terms of consistency and accolades.

Yep.

A Carlton supporter who gets it.

 

[Claude Balls]

The best player in their prime is clearly Judd, but Hodge has had a better overall career in terms of consistency and accolades.

Wrong

Accolades:

Chris Judd:
2 x Brownlow
2 x MVP
1 x Norm Smith
6 x All Australian
5 x BnF

Luke Hodge:
2 x Norm Smith
3 x All Australian
2 x BnF

Consistency:

Longevity does not equal consistency. Judd has faded sooner, but he was better earlier, and apart from tapering at the end of his career as his body gives up, his only down year was his injury-ruined 2007 (when he polled 16 brownlow votes in the first 8 rounds before doing his groin).

 

[Monkey King]

Wrong

Accolades:

Chris Judd:
2 x Brownlow
1 x Norm Smith
6 x All Australian
5 x BnF

Luke Hodge:
2 x Norm Smith
3 x All Australian
2 x BnF

Add 2 x MVP's to that list too. The only other players to have achieved that are Carey, Williams, Voss and Ablett. Gives an idea of the type of company Judd sits in. Not sure what that poster was on about, but I suppose being 7yo when Judd started his career might account for him having no clue.

 

[Claude Balls]

Add 2 x MVP's to that list too. The only other players to have achieved that are Carey, Williams, Voss and Ablett. Gives an idea of the type of company Judd sits in. Not sure what that poster was on about, but I suppose being 7yo when Judd started his career might account for him having no clue.

Cheers forgot about the MVPs.

 

[MinerBoy]

Hodge is my favourite player of all time and my Hawks loving days go back to when Peter Knights was a star. Even saying that though, only the most one eyed Hawk (which I am) believes he has been a better player than Judd. Quite simply, Judd has been the better player and has the individual awards that recognise that.

Now just like many on here think Hodge is over rated, I tend to think Judd is held a little more highly than he should be. Tended to get over hyped early days at WCE because his break aways from packs etc looked so dynamic but in my viewing experience, didn't always get as much ball, or use it as effectively as say his captain at the time, Ben Cousins. However, even the best have flaws and that's just my opinion on an area where perhaps Judd's weaknesses were glossed over. Despite that, as his career panned out, he was clearly top echelon and was able to change his game from the tear away who played with the WCE to a contested inside beast with Carlton.

So yeah, I believe Judd has been the better player and probably in the top 3-5 players in the AFL over the length of his career. However, as I said, I have huge man love for Hodge. As a leader he is an inspiration and as a player, his accolades as laid out here show him to be in the upper echelon of players himself, albeit not at the tier Judd and Ablett achieved with guys like Buddy in that mix also. Add all that to his outstanding record in finals for my club and it's easy to see why no Hawk, given the option 10 times over, would ever want that No.1 pick again. We got it exactly right.

 

[andrew_]

Cheers forgot about the MVPs.

You also forgot to mention 3 premierships vs 1. Which is huge imo.

 

[Claude Balls]

You also forgot to mention 3 premierships vs 1. Which is huge imo.

If by huge you mean premierships are hugely overrated factors when comparing individual players, I agree.

 

[MinerBoy]

If by huge you mean premierships are hugely overrated factors when comparing individual players, I agree.

While flags are team achievements, I don't think it can be simply passed off quite that simply in the case where the bloke in question has been captain for 2 of them (and recognised as leading the team beautifully) and has also been Norm Smith in 2 of the wins and in the voting for the Norm Smith in the other win.

It's not like saying he's a 3 time Premiership player in the David Wojinski mould. Not to say Wojo was poor, but simply that he played in 3 flags...........whereas Hodge owned them.

Quite simply. 3 Premierships in which he has been the best or near to in all of them. It's where legends are made, especially when done on multiple occassions.

 

[Claude Balls]

While flags are team achievements, I don't think it can be simply passed off quite that simply in the case where the bloke in question has been captain for 2 of them (and recognised as leading the team beautifully) and has also been Norm Smith in 2 of the wins and in the voting for the Norm Smith in the other win.

It's not like saying he's a 3 time Premiership player in the David Wojinski mould. Not to say Wojo was poor, but simply that he played in 3 flags...........whereas Hodge owned them.

Quite simply. 3 Premierships in which he has been the best or near to in all of them. It's where legends are made, especially when done on multiple occassions.

Certainly, leadership and playing well when it matters most means that premierships can't be totally written off when assessing an individual player's career. However in this case Judd is not Wojo. When Judd had the vehicle to actually make to finals, as Hodge has had for much of his career (i.e. a great team around him), he too performed to a very high level. In the scheme of comparing the two players' careers as far as accolades go, the fact that Hodge has played in 3 premierships to Judd's 1, is not a 'huge' factor, as the other poster put it.

 

[MinerBoy]

Certainly, leadership and playing well when it matters most means that premierships can't be totally written off when assessing an individual player's career. However in this case Judd is not Wojo. When Judd had the vehicle to actually make to finals, as Hodge has had for much of his career (i.e. a great team around him), he too performed to a very high level. In the scheme of comparing the two players' careers as far as accolades go, the fact that Hodge has played in 3 premierships to Judd's 1, is not a 'huge' factor, as the other poster put it.

Fair enough too. Judd has been an incredible finals player. Using the finals and GF criteria only enhances both their legends.

 

[Monkey King]

You also forgot to mention 3 premierships vs 1. Which is huge imo.

Premierships are not an accolade

 

[andrew_]

Premierships are not an accolade

You win a premiership medallion don't you? Geez if people wanna be pedantic about it, let it be known the C Judd 3 votes wins the argument, nuff said.

 

[timtamWB]

You win a premiership medallion don't you? Geez if people wanna be pedantic about it, let it be known the C Judd 3 votes wins the argument, nuff said.

I'm going to trot out the same old line that I always use:

So, Mooney is a 3 time premiership player compared to Judd, a 1 time premiership player. Mooney is better than Judd, right?

Premierships, when comparing two players individually, mean literally nothing. Norm Smiths mean something. But not premiership medallions.

 

[Trav 20]

I'm going to trot out the same old line that I always use:

So, Mooney is a 3 time premiership player compared to Judd, a 1 time premiership player. Mooney is better than Judd, right?

Premierships, when comparing two players individually, mean literally nothing. Norm Smiths mean something. But not premiership medallions.

You mean Clay Sampson isn't as good as Chris Judd or better than Robbie Flower ?

 

[Monkey King]

You win a premiership medallion don't you?

... let it be known the C Judd 3 votes wins the argument, nuff said.

LOL. Most posters disguise a troll account a little better than this.

 

[floodbuster]

Judd in his prime is the better player but Hodge has had better longevity so I reckon I'd take Hodge.

 

[Claude Balls]

Judd in his prime is the better player but Hodge has had better longevity so I reckon I'd take Hodge.

It's not like Hodge's career is twice as long as Judd's. Would you pick Corey Enright over Matthew Scarlett, just because he'll play a few extra seasons in good form?

 

[floodbuster]

It's not like Hodge's career is twice as long as Judd's. Would you pick Corey Enright over Matthew Scarlett, just because he'll play a few extra seasons in good form?

Yes Judd is individually the better player and at his peak is so damaging but his body has struggled for some years, sure he won a Brownlow in 2010 but it felt more like he just is a voters darling where he sees ball, gets ball and moves it forward and that's it. Where Hodge seems to have this leadership quality that pulls along his teammates (like Selwood and Boak) that gives a team more success (when Hodge wins a Norm Smith medal the team wins the same can't be said for Judd).

 

[Claude Balls]

Yes Judd is individually the better player and at his peak is so damaging but his body has struggled for some years, sure he won a Brownlow in 2010 but it felt more like he just is a voters darling where he sees ball, gets ball and moves it forward and that's it. Where Hodge seems to have this leadership quality that pulls along his teammates (like Selwood and Boak) that gives a team more success (when Hodge wins a Norm Smith medal the team wins the same can't be said for Judd).

90% of Norms go to a player from the winnning team. It's hardly an indictment on the player who wins a Norm from the losing team. If anything, it speaks of a more remarkable individual performance.

But I do see what you're saying about leadership. Hodge is a great captain.

 

[TazHawk15]

Judd in his prime is the better player but Hodge has had better longevity so I reckon I'd take Hodge.

Yes Judd is individually the better player and at his peak is so damaging but his body has struggled for some years, sure he won a Brownlow in 2010 but it felt more like he just is a voters darling where he sees ball, gets ball and moves it forward and that's it. Where Hodge seems to have this leadership quality that pulls along his teammates (like Selwood and Boak) that gives a team more success (when Hodge wins a Norm Smith medal the team wins the same can't be said for Judd).

Summed up very well.

 

[Monkey King]

Yes Judd is individually the better player and at his peak is so damaging but his body has struggled for some years, sure he won a Brownlow in 2010 but it felt more like he just is a voters darling where he sees ball, gets ball and moves it forward and that's it.

I find this a real short-term memory thing. Judd was All Australian from 2008-11 consecutively and won the MVP by a street in 2011. Hodge's last All Australian was in 2010 and he looked shot by 2012. So really this whole longevity thing is pretty much the last couple of years where Judd's struggled with injury while Hodge has put together a couple of good, but not great, seasons. How anyone think that's bridges the gap between these two players truly blows my mind.

 

[floodbuster]

I find this a real short-term memory thing. Judd was All Australian from 2008-11 consecutively and won the MVP by a street in 2011. Hodge's last All Australian was in 2010 and he looked shot by 2012. So really this whole longevity thing is pretty much the last couple of years where Judd's struggled with injury while Hodge has put together a couple of good, but not great, seasons. How anyone think that's bridges the gap between these two players truly blows my mind.

I also said part of the reason was that Judd is a better individual player but as a team leader, would Judd have made that smother at the end of the PF? The poll isn't who's the better player but who you'd take, just an opinion.

 

[Monkey King]

I also said part of the reason was that Judd is a better individual player but as a team leader, would Judd have made that smother at the end of the PF? The poll isn't who's the better player but who you'd take, just an opinion.

Every opinion has its reasoning; and your reasoning of longevity doesn't make much sense. I'm just pointing that out.

Not sure why anyone would question Judd's finals record or his ability to lift his teammates. He has been immense in finals at both WCE and Carlton and is arguably a better finals player than Hodge.

You're entitled to choose whoever you want, I just find your reasoning to be unduly influenced by recent events.