Luke Hodge vs Nigel Lappin

[Lethality]

5/23 is not a quarter...

By looks, Hodge has had 6/21 quite finals - that is over a quarter and more than Lappin!
15 disposals in the 2013 PF (15/383 = 3.92% of disposals)
17 disposals in the 2012 QF (17/352 = 4.83% of disposals)
15 disposals in the 2012 GF (15/336 = 4.46% of disposals)
13 disposals in the 2010 EF (13/345 = 3.77% of disposals)
16 disposals in the 2008 QF (16/347 = 4.61% of disposals)
8 disposals in the 2007 SF (8/331 = 2.42% of disposals)

Come on, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when you go by % of team possession.


It's 6/23 which is more than a quarter and you also put in low possession games where multiple goals were kicked. I left those out for Lappin.

 

[M Malice]

pretty accurate result so far in the poll i would suggest hodges way 29-17. hodge the better player, but lappin was a very good player, he just gets a bit lost in history when being compared to the likes of voss, black and akermanis.

 

[Procrastinator35]

pretty accurate result so far in the poll i would suggest hodges way 29-17. hodge the better player, but lappin was a very good player, he just gets a bit lost in history when being compared to the likes of voss, black and akermanis.

No one doubts Lappin was an excellent footballer. But would he make the Fitzroy/Brisbane team of the Century?

Hodge would make ours easily & is now in our top 10 players ever....And that's in a team that boasts 3 great eras & 12 flags over the past 45 years.

 

[Dom PC]

No one doubts Lappin was an excellent footballer. But would he make the Fitzroy/Brisbane team of the Century?

Hodge would make ours easily & is now in our top 10 players ever....And that's in a team that boasts 3 great eras & 12 flags over the past 45 years.

How can Hodge be named in the 1901-2000 Hawthorn team of the century? He started in 2002...

 

[Procrastinator35]

How can Hodge be named in the 1901-2000 Hawthorn team of the century? He started in 2002...

Well, it all depends on the context of how you read Century, Mr smarty pants.

Did I specify the 2oth Century ?.... No.

What was implied, of course, is the last 100 years of VFL/AFL football....Hawthorn have only been in the comp for 91 years.

Why do you feel the need to get pedantic, just to try & win a silly point-scoring exercise?

 

[Monkey King]

Nah, I'm a Lappin fan, but we do have to correct the record, he had quiet finals.

Who said he didn't have quiet finals? We're talking about Lappin the senior player here, not Lappin the kid. Pretty obvious one would have thought, unless engaging in disingenuous analysis; oh wait, of course

The comment was he almost always performed in finals and was in the bests for every PF and GF he played. You've corrected nothing, rather than prove it - 2 quiet games out of 20 as an established senior player is an outstanding record. Compare Hodge's and Lappin's finals record from 23yo in terms of consistency. If you're going to pump up Hodge's finals games, you've really gotta give Lappin his dues for his remarkable consistency and being a fine finals performer.

 

[Monkey King]

Yeah....nah

Hodge/Voss
Lewis/Lappin

Lappin is a four-time All Australian. You've lost perspective.

 

[Dom PC]

Well, it all depends on the context of how you read Century, Mr smarty pants.

Did I specify the 2oth Century ?.... No.

What was implied, of course, is the last 100 years of VFL/AFL football....Hawthorn have only been in the comp for 91 years.

Why do you feel the need to get pedantic, just to try & win a silly point-scoring exercise?

I enjoy talking about past stars, if you don't like the feed back. Go to the Hawks board.

Fair enough btw.

Considering Lappin and Hodge have achieved/performed to a similar standard, Lappin certainly would be considered in ours. It's a bit muddy with my club though for obvious reasons.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I enjoy talking about past stars, if you don't like the feed back. Go to the Hawks board.

Fair enough btw.

Considering Lappin and Hodge have achieved/performed to a similar standard, Lappin certainly would be considered in ours. It's a bit muddy with my club though for obvious reasons.

Well, I guess that's my point....Hodge's inclusion is unequivocal, but Lappin would be on the cusp i'm guessing.

Mitchell is the only other current Hawk who'd be in there for sure.

 

[Lethality]

Who said he didn't have quiet finals? We're talking about Lappin the senior player here, not Lappin the kid. Pretty obvious one would have thought, unless engaging in disingenuous analysis; oh wait, of course

I thought we were just talking about Lappin the player . . . I took all finals into account, after all that was the original comment, there was nothing there about Lappin's performance over the age of 23 or anything. To say he almost never had a quiet final just seems wrong.

The comment was he almost always performed in finals and was in the bests for every PF and GF he played. You've corrected nothing, rather than prove it - 2 quiet games out of 20 as an established senior player is an outstanding record.

6 out of 20.

Compare Hodge's and Lappin's finals record from 23yo in terms of consistency. If you're going to pump up Hodge's finals games, you've really gotta give Lappin his dues for his remarkable consistency and being a fine finals performer.

I haven't even discussed Hodge's finals games, but under the same scrutiny he has about 4 or 5 quiet finals games so far.

 

[Monkey King]

I thought we were just talking about Lappin the player . . .

Exactly, talking about Lappin the player we came to know, not the teenager or 20yo kid. That Lappin almost never had a poor game; and central to the point, was in the bests of every PF and GF he played. This is a pretty remarkable finals record which seemed to have been overlooked in this thread.

You can arc back to performances when he was a kid all you want. Analysis in preference of mindless regurgitation however, shows his consistency in finals is bloody impressive. Matched to Hodge's performances as an established player, he's definitely the more consistent finals performer, but without the heights.

 

[Lethality]

Exactly, talking about Lappin the player we came to know, not the teenager or 20yo kid. That Lappin almost never had a poor game; and central

Sorry I only know of one Nigel Lappin who played for the Lions/Bears.

You can arc back to performances when he was a kid all you want. Analysis in preference of mindless regurgitation however, shows his consistency in finals is bloody impressive. Matched to Hodge's performances as an established player, he's definitely the more consistent finals performer, but without the heights.

This all means nothing when you're only talking about Nigel Lappin under certain conditions The age of the player is no excuse, Lappin was already performing at the time, he just didn't perform in those finals.

 

[Mitchell54]

Hodge due to his leadership.

Yep. Leadership can be underrated. No team wins a GF wothout having a strong leadership group and good coaching staff

 

[jussbcat18]

While we're at it, why not do a poll on who is the better fab 4:

Hodge/Mitchell/Burgoyne/Lewis....vs....Voss/Black/Ackermanis/Lappin

Go on....You know you want to.

By the way: Podge easily

That's Brisbane Easily
Voss > Hodge
Mitchell > Black
Aker > Burgoyne
Lappin > Lewis

 

[Elite Master]

Yeah....nah

Hodge/Voss
Lewis/Lappin

Self-Evident.

And the fullness of time will bear that out....Too soon for too many salty posters, still licking their wounds.

Nah. Voss is too easily in frout of Hodge in most peoples minds, Lappin is a better comparsen match up.

 

[kade]

Nah. Voss is too easily in frout of Hodge in most peoples minds, Lappin is a better comparsen match up.

Weird. You started the Hodge vs Voss comparison

 

[Elite Master]

Weird. You started the Hodge vs Voss comparison

Yep, and I thought it'd be closer even though I have Voss still pretty comfortably in frout as a player, as a captain their neck and neck, but even as a captain the vast majority think it's a pretty easy decision.

Seems Hodge is better linked with a player of Lappin's quality than Voss'. I have Hodge ahead overall, but this one is tougher to pick.

 

[M Malice]

No one doubts Lappin was an excellent footballer. But would he make the Fitzroy/Brisbane team of the Century?

Hodge would make ours easily & is now in our top 10 players ever....And that's in a team that boasts 3 great eras & 12 flags over the past 45 years.

agree, i love hodge as a player. lappin really good player but not quite in hodges class.

 

[Monkey King]

This all means nothing when you're only talking about Nigel Lappin under certain conditions

Certain conditions? I'm just talking about Lappin the established player, the guy we're all talking about it this thread, not tracing back to a few games he played as a kid with the Bad News Bears. Inconsistency is pretty much expected from a kid, so buggered if I know why you think this means so much.

No. It's his level of consistency as an established player that is not so common; and it was clearly the Brisbane Lions Lappin that I was talking about - loads of finals (20), almost never a poor game.

The quality of your thinking here reminds me of Robbo fumbling around defending Essendon on 360. Just says anything in support of his point now matter how imbecilic it may be.

"Lappin was such a consistent finals player"

"Oh yeah, but back when he was 19yo he had a poor game"

I mean, really?

 

[Lethality]

Certain conditions? I'm just talking about Lappin the established player, the guy we're all talking about it this thread, not tracing back to a few games he played as a kid with the Bad News Bears. Inconsistency is pretty much expected from a kid, so buggered if I know why you think this means so much.

Sorry, I agree with you, after a certain age and after a certain amount of games in the last two finals of the season Nigel Lappin generally conforms to the assertion that you made. The Lappin who didn't perform poorly in finals didn't perform poorly in finals. It's only the Lappin who performed poorly in finals who performed poorly in finals as you said, and he clearly doesn't count. Different Lappin altogether

 

[pacman]

So 2 games where Hodge was man of the match makes him the better finals performer than Lappin?

Out of 20 odd games, you judge off 2 games... Yeah?

No I've judged off their careers but it was 2 pretty important performances that you failed to mention.
Humphrey Bear was a good player but not in the same category as Hodge.

 

[Dom PC]

No I've judged off their careers but it was 2 pretty important performances that you failed to mention.
Humphrey Bear was a good player but not in the same category as Hodge.

I certainly mentioned it in the OP and have acknowledged he won them.

I thought the finals and GF averages was an interesting and relevant comparison, no?

I do think some Hawks fans are seriously over rating the NS.

Bit like saying Simon Black is a Marcus Ashcroft medalist... in the end, it's an award for one games performance.

 

[Monkey King]

Sorry, I agree with you, after a certain age and after a certain amount of games in the last two finals of the season Nigel Lappin generally conforms to the assertion that you made.

It's only the Lappin who performed poorly in finals ... Different Lappin altogether

Errr ... not quite. Lappin never had a bad game in his career in the last two finals of the season. But yes, after 21yo he very rarely had a bad game whatsoever in finals. A remarkably consistent finals performer. This should be acknowledged when discussing his finals performances.

Of course he was a different player as a teenager. Not a different person, a different player. Like most champion players (and non-champion players for that matter) they were vastly different players when they were kids, in their first few years, playing their first 50 games or so. Nothing groundbreaking about this observation.

 

[Lethality]

Errr ... not quite. Lappin never had a bad game in his career in the last two finals of the season. But yes, after 21yo he very rarely had a bad game whatsoever in finals. A remarkably consistent finals performer. This should be acknowledged when discussing his finals performances.

Of course he was a different player as a teenager. Not a different person, a different player. Like most champion players (and non-champion players for that matter) they were vastly different players when they were kids, in their first few years, playing their first 50 games or so. Nothing groundbreaking about this observation.

3 of his first 5 finals after 21 were poor.

It would be more accurate to say that between the ages of 24 and 28 he didn't play many bad ones.

 

[Monkey King]

3 of his first 5 finals after 21 were poor.

Lol. And how many after that? None!

But just on this, I'd say he only played 2 poor games out of those five. The only 2 poor finals games out of 20 whatever from the time he became an established senior player. It's a very good finals record.

It would be more accurate to say that between the ages of 24 and 28 he didn't play many bad ones.

No. It would be more accurate to say between the ages of 24 and 28 he didn't play any bad ones.