Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 shot down 295 dead.

[Whit3y]

I read an article today that 4 countries have signed an agreement not to release the findings into the crash of mh17 , unless they all agree. Is this true?

doesnt that sound a bit suss

why wouldnt they release it?

 

[little graham]

doesnt that sound a bit suss

why wouldnt they release it?

I read in a few places Australia, Holland, Belgium and the western backed side of Ukraine have signed this.I don't know if this true or not as I have been reading some utter bullshit the last few weeks in our press.

Considering how Australia tried to blame Russia and sanction Russia in what looked like a pre planned political attack, if this treaty is indeed correct. The Russians are most probably right that the plane was most likely shot down by another plane.

 

[awaremind]

I read in a few places Australia, Holland, Belgium and the western backed side of Ukraine have signed this.I don't know if this true or not as I have been reading some utter bullshit the last few weeks in our press.

Considering how Australia tried to blame Russia and sanction Russia in what looked like a pre planned political attack, if this treaty is indeed correct. The Russians are most probably right that the plane was most likely shot down by another plane.

If that is true it shows that our governments think the populace has memories like goldfish and brains like mush. Where did you get that info from? If it was true I'm sure the Russians would be keen to tell the world all about it.

 

[Zidane98]

I read an article today that 4 countries have signed an agreement not to release the findings into the crash of mh17 , unless they all agree. Is this true?

You read wrong or read russian propaganda websites. The investigation is being led by the dutch, despite Ukraine technically being in charge of it (the crash occurred on Ukranian territory which means they would normally be in charge of investigating). A quick glance at the dutch investigation safety board website: http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/ond...ning-the-investigation-into-flight-mh17#fasen reveals Russia are a party to the investigation.

Furthermore, the ongoing investigation is seeking only the facts about the accident. How the aircraft crashed and what caused it to crash. The type of missile that brought it down and what direction it came from. Their job isn't about blaming anyone, just establishing the facts. So any reports you have read about the investigation not being released are complete bs and/or russian propaganda websites.

 

[Zidane98]

In other the news the lovely open and honest Russians used a video game to produce so called "evidence" of ukranian forces shooting down a plane:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-mh17-supposed-satellite-video-of-missile-launch-fake.4025/

Also caught editing the SU-25 wiki web page to support their feeble argument such an aircraft shot down MH-17.

RT also published that the youtube intercepts posted of the separatists were posted before the accident happened. Those pesky Russians didn't bother to check that all youtube videos subtract - 1 day from the date of upload when uploading.

Also, the BUK missile launcher photographed being transported by a truck was reported stolen on the 8th July in Donetsk by separatists:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/5619...uk-missile-malaysia-airlines.htm#.VAMS3EvelZg

Poor bastard, if he says too much the separatists will come after him.

 

[Freo2012]

You read wrong or read russian propaganda websites. The investigation is being led by the dutch, despite Ukraine technically being in charge of it (the crash occurred on Ukranian territory which means they would normally be in charge of investigating). A quick glance at the dutch investigation safety board website: http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/ond...ning-the-investigation-into-flight-mh17#fasen reveals Russia are a party to the investigation.

Furthermore, the ongoing investigation is seeking only the facts about the accident. How the aircraft crashed and what caused it to crash. The type of missile that brought it down and what direction it came from. Their job isn't about blaming anyone, just establishing the facts. So any reports you have read about the investigation not being released are complete bs and/or russian propaganda websites.

Any update or info on the air traffic control tapes "confiscated" by the Ukraine security service - have those "finally" made their "uncompromised" way to the crash investigation?

 

[Zidane98]

Any update or info on the air traffic control tapes "confiscated" by the Ukraine security service - have those "finally" made their "uncompromised" way to the crash investigation?

Again you're reading into Russian propaganda. ICAO regulations state that evidence used in crash investigations is published once the preliminary report has been released. They will be released with the preliminary report which the dutch investigation board has indicated will be released in 2-3 weeks time. Just as it would be with any air crash investigation.

And on that, the source of that information, the supposed "Carlos" who supposedly works in Ukranian ATC has been debunked as read here:

http://www.stopfake.org/en/lies-spa...-ukrainian-planes-involved-in-boeing-tragedy/

Ukranian regulations forbid anyone but Ukranian citizens from working in ATC. And the supposed "Carlos" had earlier claimed he had been chased out of Ukraine in May because of radical extremists. Yet he suddenly returns and is "working" in ATC.

Appalling misinformation and propaganda by the Russians yet again and you have to wonder what their motives are. They didn't pull the trigger themselves and should be disavowing themselves from the separatists but in doing so would forgo their plans to invade/oppress Ukraine.

 

[awaremind]

Again you're reading into Russian propaganda. ICAO regulations state that evidence used in crash investigations is published once the preliminary report has been released. They will be released with the preliminary report which the dutch investigation board has indicated will be released in 2-3 weeks time. Just as it would be with any air crash investigation.

And on that, the source of that information, the supposed "Carlos" who supposedly works in Ukranian ATC has been debunked as read here:

http://www.stopfake.org/en/lies-spa...-ukrainian-planes-involved-in-boeing-tragedy/

Ukranian regulations forbid anyone but Ukranian citizens from working in ATC. And the supposed "Carlos" had earlier claimed he had been chased out of Ukraine in May because of radical extremists. Yet he suddenly returns and is "working" in ATC.

Appalling misinformation and propaganda by the Russians yet again and you have to wonder what their motives are. They didn't pull the trigger themselves and should be disavowing themselves from the separatists but in doing so would forgo their plans to invade/oppress Ukraine.

So we'll see what happens when everything comes out in the open- if it does at all.
Before you get all white knighty mr just remember what happened to other nations that the US encouraged regime change in - Syria, Iraq, Lybia... Bad before... so much worse after! Russia's economy was stuffed under Yeltsin (US patsy)... fixed under Putin. Now he's threatening the Dollar and has good business with europe... can't be having that can we now- Last person to threaten the Dollar was Ghaddafi and we know what happened to him.

 

[Zidane98]

Regime change? Most of the Ukranian government remains. Yanukovych was removed for being blatantly corrupt and a puppet for Putin. Can't blame the Ukranians fir wanting to rid themselves of suppression by the Russians. Not sure why you are blaming the US for that. Russia has historically always seeked to oppress Ukranians right back to the Stalin days when they starved Ukranians and took all their food. But apparently it is the evil US who are responsible.

 

[little graham]

Russia has historically always seeked to oppress Ukranians right back to the Stalin days when they starved Ukranians and took all their food. But apparently it is the evil US who are responsible.

The West bought all the food denied to the Ukranians. We still castigate the Germans for liberating those that survived.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

I read in a few places Australia, Holland, Belgium and the western backed side of Ukraine have signed this.I don't know if this true or not as I have been reading some utter bullshit the last few weeks in our press.

Considering how Australia tried to blame Russia and sanction Russia in what looked like a pre planned political attack, if this treaty is indeed correct. The Russians are most probably right that the plane was most likely shot down by another plane.

or it could be the opposite, countries in the region worried aggravating further risking russia pumping up gas prices in return of threatening to make the region more unstable might not want to their name on something that pisses off the russians....... particularly with the northern winter right around the corner.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Has any evidence been released which implicates the Russians yet? Nope?

And none of you warmongers see a problem with this?

 

[Zidane98]

Nobody us saying the Russians pulled the trigger themselves. They are responsible for training / arming the separatists and/or providing crews capable of operating the BUK missile system though.

 

[Zidane98]

Also the factual preliminary report comes out next week.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Nobody us saying the Russians pulled the trigger themselves. They are responsible for training / arming the separatists and/or providing crews capable of operating the BUK missile system though.

Where is the evidence for these claims? Or evidence that the rebels shot the plane down?

 

[Zidane98]

Are you serious? The rebels boasted about shooting down a ukranian transport plane shortly after mh 17 crashed. As soon as it was discovered to be a civilian airliner they quickly removed ant reference to the crash. There's plenty of videos of the BUK missile launcher being transported through rebel held territory; the truck used to transport the BUK was identified as being stolen by the rebels in donetsk on July 8th; there's phone intercepts that are damning. The evidence is overwhelming and conclusive that the rebels shot the plane down believing it to be a ukranian military transport aircraft.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Are you serious? The rebels boasted about shooting down a ukranian transport plane shortly after mh 17 crashed... there's phone intercepts that are damning.

According to who and with what evidence?

The evidence is overwhelming and conclusive that the rebels shot the plane down believing it to be a ukranian military transport aircraft.

Hahahahahahaa.

Are you a Bill O'Reilly fan, per chance?

 

[little graham]

or it could be the opposite, countries in the region worried aggravating further risking russia pumping up gas prices in return of threatening to make the region more unstable might not want to their name on something that pisses off the russians....... particularly with the northern winter right around the corner.

but then theres this.

A letter sent by a prominent Dutch Professor to Russian president Vladimir Putin has attracted much media attention in Europe. The letter was written by Professor Cees Hamelink and signed by dozens of Dutch intellectuals and professors.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/25981/53/

ignored by our press as well.

Please accept our apologies on behalf of a great many people here in the Netherlands for our Government and our Media. The facts concerning MH17 are twisted to defame you and your country.

We are powerless onlookers, as we witness how the Western Nations, led by the United States, accuse Russia of crimes they commit themselves more than anybody else. We reject the double standards that are used for Russia and the West. In our societies, sufficient evidence is required for a conviction. The way you and your Nation are convicted for 'crimes' without evidence, is ruthless and despicable.

Its quite powerful stuff from leading dutch academics.

We, awake citizens of the West, who see the lies and machinations of our Governments, wish to offer you our apologies for what is done in our name.
It’s unfortunately true, that our media have lost all independence and are just mouthpieces for the Powers that Be. Because of this, Western people tend to have a warped view of reality and are unable to hold their politicians to account.

the whole letter is well worth the read.

 

[Zidane98]

PMSL. Take a look at www.metabunk.org and flight mh 17 sub forum. If you still believe there isn't conclusive evidence of the rebels shooting down the plane then good luck to you.

The plane was also shot down over rebel held territory and the range of the missile launcher is 48km.

I guess we could believe that the Ukranians fought their way into rebel territory and deliberately shot down a civilian airliner as the rebels do not have aircraft and the Ukranians would have no reason to shoot MH 17 down accidentally.

That sounds like a totally realistic scenario!!!
If there was even a slight element of truth about it the likes of Australia / Malaysia / Netherlands would have declared war on Ukraine by now.

I await your amusing attempt to try and rebuff the above.

 

[Slax]

Are you serious? The rebels boasted about shooting down a ukranian transport plane shortly after mh 17 crashed. As soon as it was discovered to be a civilian airliner they quickly removed ant reference to the crash. There's plenty of videos of the BUK missile launcher being transported through rebel held territory; the truck used to transport the BUK was identified as being stolen by the rebels in donetsk on July 8th; there's phone intercepts that are damning. The evidence is overwhelming and conclusive that the rebels shot the plane down believing it to be a ukranian military transport aircraft.

The question is why was MH17 changed off it's original flight path and diverted 200km south? I have little doubt that this was a deliberate act to try and allow a Ukraine miltary plane to shadow MH17 through rebel held territory.

I also have little doubt that the BUK was Russian and those who fired it were Russian trained. But they had shot down other Ukraine miltary aircraft before so the Ukraine government would of known that it was a risk.

Neither side is blameless here, but the evidence suggest that the Russian version of events is closer to the actual truth than the NATO version.

 

[Zidane98]

but then theres this.



http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/25981/53/

ignored by our press as well.





Its quite powerful stuff from leading dutch academics.



the whole letter is well worth the read.

Quoting zero hedge has about as much credibility as quoting David Icke.

 

[Zidane98]

The question is why was MH17 changed off it's original flight path and diverted 200km south? I have little doubt that this was a deliberate act to try and allow a Ukraine miltary plane to shadow MH17 through rebel held territory.

I also have little doubt that the BUK was Russian and those who fired it were Russian trained. But they had shot down other Ukraine miltary aircraft before so the Ukraine government would of known that it was a risk.

Neither side is blameless here, but the evidence suggest that the Russian version of events is closer to the actual truth than the NATO version.

That's proven to be bs. The aircraft was on flight corridor L7 80 which permits deviations which MH 17 was within. You can see a history of the previous 20 MH 17 flights on www.metabunk.org mh 17 subsection (sourced from flightradar24). All but one of the MH 17 flights from the last month passed over the same area.

Case closed on that conspiracy.

 

[little graham]

Quoting zero hedge has about as much credibility as quoting David Icke.

This the guy your insinuating is a communist sympathizer

Dr. Cees J. Hamelink

is Emeritus Professor of International Communication at the University of Amsterdam. He is currently Professor for Management of Information and Knowledge at the University of Aruba, Professor of Human Rights and Public Health at the Vrije Universiteit of Amsterdam, and Honorary Professor of the University of Queensland, Brisbane, Australia. He is also the editor-in-chief of the International Communication Gazette and Honorary president of the International Association for Media and Communication Research. He is author of 17 monographs on communication and culture. Forthcoming with Paradigm Publishers is Conflict and Communication

 

[Zidane98]

Slax you do realise that the Russian radar records don't show a Ukranian aircraft? All they show is MH 17 itself coming apart.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

but then theres this.



http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/25981/53/

ignored by our press as well.





Its quite powerful stuff from leading dutch academics.



the whole letter is well worth the read.

And what has any of that got to do with my hypothetical scenario, I was suggesting that for all the saber rattling several European countries won't do anything that is of consequence out of fear of further retaliation.

In other words talk is cheap, actually putting your name to a report that finds Russia guilty of an offence that supposedly didn't commit will risk a return to artificial "supply issues" and "shortages" that result in price hikes.

Russia has form on this actually look into it.

As for the professor, he could be right he could be wrong. I'm not trying to say this is fact just another possible scenario.