Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 shot down 295 dead.

[Northalives]

The plane was shot down. What was a commercial airliner doing flying directly through a war zone?

Has anyone in the "west" asked that question let alone given an answer?

How many f*****g commercial planes fly over Afghanistan, Syria etc. ?

 

[Zidane98]

The plane was shot down. What was a commercial airliner doing flying directly through a war zone?

Has anyone in the "west" asked that question let alone given an answer?

How many f*****g commercial planes fly over Afghanistan, Syria etc. ?

Hundreds of planes flew over the war zone. Insurgents had only previously downed aircraft with portable shoulder based missiles.
Rebels possessing SAM missiles was a game changer. Airlines have flown over war zones for decades without incident because insurgent / Rebel / any other illegitimate force did not have possession of these types of weapons. Only government backed forces did with proper command structures & procedures that ensured something like MH cannot happen.

The flight plan filed was approved by ICAO & I ATA so no blame can be attached to Malaysian Airlines in this accident IMO.

 

[Northalives]

Hundreds of planes flew over the war zone. Insurgents had only previously downed aircraft with portable shoulder based missiles.
Rebels possessing SAM missiles was a game changer. Airlines have flown over war zones for decades without incident because insurgent / Rebel / any other illegitimate force did not have possession of these types of weapons. Only government backed forces did with proper command structures & procedures that ensured something like MH cannot happen.

The flight plan filed was approved by ICAO & I ATA so no blame can be attached to Malaysian Airlines in this accident IMO.

http://theconversation.com/why-was-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-flying-over-ukraine-29372

The above raises questions and I feel that there has not been anywhere near the scrutiny required concerning the way Malaysian Airlines operate.

 

[Zidane98]

http://theconversation.com/why-was-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-flying-over-ukraine-29372

The above raises questions and I feel that there has not been anywhere near the scrutiny required concerning the way Malaysian Airlines operate.

It all comes down to rebel forces having weapons that are normally operated only by legitimate government forces with a command structure & discipline. Flying over war zones is perfectly safe when these weapons are in the right hands. Russia has much to answer in this tragedy with conclusive evidence they provided a BUK missile battery and/or assisted in operating it.

Singapore Airlines , Air India, Emirates and many other airlines flew over the area on the day of the shootdown. Really cannot blame the airline in this instance. The blame lies with those who provided the weapons and decided to use it.

 

[smokingjacket]

Only one government silences reporters and citizens who actively protest against it. Only one government censors and filters internet access. It certainly isn't the USA. Crackpots are free to publish what ever mindless ramblings they feel like without reprisal. You can't do that in Russia.

Compared to Russia most countries look like angels, however the US regularly attempts to silence reporters and citizens who actively protest against it.

Russian censorship is incredibly archaic compared to the US. Besides, why bother censoring people when you monitor everything they do anyway?

Wasn't always so but we should be using modern comparisons.

 

[awaremind]

UAF is facing an epic defeat, once again due to poor leadership. Its soldiers are nearly trapped in a kettle south of Debaltsevo. If they lose 5 or 10 thousand troops hopefully they will give up their ongoing war.

 

[Zidane98]

UAF is facing an epic defeat, once again due to poor leadership. Its soldiers are nearly trapped in a kettle south of Debaltsevo. If they lose 5 or 10 thousand troops hopefully they will give up their ongoing war.

They're facing russian backed forces who have constantly attacked them. And it is Russia's war. The separatists are becoming dangerous and increasingly unstable.

This was particularly disgusting: http://hosted2.ap.org/OHCOL/07e34bb...--Ukraine/id-d6fe07248b0b49d6906b1f19ae068549

Attacking a bus at a ukranian government checkpoint is the lowest of low. And they have the gall to deny it just like mh17. What absolute filthy vermin scum these russian loyal separatists are.

I'm shocked at how much the western world has let Russia get away with in Ukraine. I say build a giant wall dividing Russia/Ukraine so the scum can be kept out of Ukranian territory and the residents can be left in peace.

 

[Zidane98]

Meanwhile, more evidence of the separatist fired BUK:

https://www.bellingcat.com/resource.../examining-the-mh17-launch-smoke-photographs/

This was taken at 4.23pm on July 17th (local time). 3 minutes after MH17 was downed, outside the town of Snizhne. The owner of the photo was a resident of an apartment block and has had to remove the EXIF data from the photo with separatists reportedly trying to hunt him down. What will it take for these scumbags to at least say sorry for murdering 298 civilians? They just do not want to take responsibility for their actions and that is why they will never be welcome in the Ukraine.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

They're facing russian backed forces who have constantly attacked them. And it is Russia's war...

If it was Russia's war, Kiev would have surely fallen by now. Although they didn't even need to enter the capital, the Russian 58th Army took less than a week to bring about the surrender of the Georgian military in 2008.

 

[awaremind]

They're facing russian backed forces who have constantly attacked them. And it is Russia's war. The separatists are becoming dangerous and increasingly unstable.

This was particularly disgusting: http://hosted2.ap.org/OHCOL/07e34bb...--Ukraine/id-d6fe07248b0b49d6906b1f19ae068549

Attacking a bus at a ukranian government checkpoint is the lowest of low. And they have the gall to deny it just like mh17. What absolute filthy vermin scum these russian loyal separatists are.

I'm shocked at how much the western world has let Russia get away with in Ukraine. I say build a giant wall dividing Russia/Ukraine so the scum can be kept out of Ukranian territory and the residents can be left in peace.

Im shocked at how the west has been allowed by its people to let the genocidal Kiev regime continue its assault for as long as it has. They are the ones who went on the all out military attack on their own civilians and who have stated basically that they will aim to keep thier civilians under attack for as long as it takes. They never attacked Kiev. Donetsk was a city of a million inhabitants that was being hit by fighter jets, the people now truly hate the west. Two state solution is the only way now.

 

[awaremind]

Meanwhile, more evidence of the separatist fired BUK:

https://www.bellingcat.com/resource.../examining-the-mh17-launch-smoke-photographs/

This was taken at 4.23pm on July 17th (local time). 3 minutes after MH17 was downed, outside the town of Snizhne. The owner of the photo was a resident of an apartment block and has had to remove the EXIF data from the photo with separatists reportedly trying to hunt him down. What will it take for these scumbags to at least say sorry for murdering 298 civilians? They just do not want to take responsibility for their actions and that is why they will never be welcome in the Ukraine.

Pretty shaky, as are the claims of that bus being delibrately hit.

 

[Zidane98]

Sorry mate but that's a load of bullshit. Firstly, this war is all about Ukraine wanting to break away from Russian hegemony. Russia wants to maintain a stranglehold over Ukraine and don't like it when they pursue integration with the rest of Europe and god forbid actual democracy.

Attacking of civilians is a Russian propagated bullshit myth. Find me a news source that isn't Russian reporting Ukranian forces are deliberately attacking civilians and I'm Vladimir Putin. Get your head out of your arse and realise the fact that russian backed separatists have brought nothing but death & destruction to east ukraine and will continue to so until ukraine receives some help on eliminating the filthy scum.

Oh and lastly what you are saying is America would be justified if it decided to invade Cuba because of its interests there. I think you would find there would be worldwide outrage if America decided to invade Cuba in the same way Russia is unofficially undermining Ukraine via the rebels.


And lastly you show not one bit of disgust at the rebels blatantly shooting down MH 17 and showing no remorse / nor taking responsibility for it. G

 

[Zidane98]

Pretty shaky, as are the claims of that bus being delibrately hit.

Yes, because the Ukraine government would attack it's own checkpoint. Delusional.

 

[awaremind]

Sorry mate but that's a load of bullshit. Firstly, this war is all about Ukraine wanting to break away from Russian hegemony. Russia wants to maintain a stranglehold over Ukraine and don't like it when they pursue integration with the rest of Europe and god forbid actual democracy.

Attacking of civilians is a Russian propagated bullshit myth. Find me a news source that isn't Russian reporting Ukranian forces are deliberately attacking civilians and I'm Vladimir Putin. Get your head out of your arse and realise the fact that russian backed separatists have brought nothing but death & destruction to east ukraine and will continue to so until ukraine receives some help on eliminating the filthy scum.

Oh and lastly what you are saying is America would be justified if it decided to invade Cuba because of its interests there. I think you would find there would be worldwide outrage if America decided to invade Cuba in the same way Russia is unofficially undermining Ukraine via the rebels.


And lastly you show not one bit of disgust at the rebels blatantly shooting down MH 17 and showing no remorse / nor taking responsibility for it. G

Fool the UAF has been indiscriminately pounding donetsk for months on end. Poroshenko himself stated " their children will hide in basement that is how we will win this war". Gorlovka has been pounded with ballistic missiles, and there are many videos showing uaf position set up next to residential blocks.

Btw USA has invaded Cuba, only difference they got thier asses kicked back to USA. Then tried to strangle them with a 50 year embargo. Get your own head out of your ass and realize that a ) its not Russian troops, b) If the people of donbass didn't support the naf, they would have failed long ago c) Ukraines right wing paramilitaries are a growing, violent and dangerous force, that would be unacceptable in any western European nation. You are supporting a Nazi invasion and Genocide.

The western media step in line, they dont want you to know anything about this conflict at all. You are seeing things backwards if you think the people getting thier families killed by swasticka and wolfhook bearing assclowns are the bad guys. BTW the UKR oligarchs are the real enemy of thier people, the time will come when Kiev will have a real revolution, only problem is it may be a Nazi revolution.

 

[awaremind]

Are you equally disgusted by the "vile filthy vermin scum" from the Ukrainian side who shell with artillery civilians? How about how the fascist Ukrainian side that uses fighter jets to bomb civilians?
Or are you just another typical sheep who believes everything and ONLY the media from his side of the divide tells him? Because it's not in our media, well, who cares right..


The civil war in Ukraine is the result of the United States pushing deeper and deeper in to the Russian sphere of influence, into former Soviet republics.
What business does America have in these parts of the world? I don't know, I'm not privi to that information of the inner workings of the American administration.

But before you launch into a moronic tirade, maybe take a step back, pull your head out, and examine the facts and think for your self, instead of regurgitating propaganda you read in the media.

Here's a scenario you should think about.
If Russia was meddling in America's sphere of influence, in their region right on their border, and stirred up ultra nationalist fascists against a democratically elected pro-American government, and against an ethnic American minority..what do you think the American's would do?
The exact same thing the Russian's are doing. They'd back their people.

Would you be so fired up if it was the reverse like the above scenario?
Do you get this fired up about all the innocent people the Americans have killed directly?
How about all the devastation, upheaval and turmoil that American sponsored dictators, rebels and terrorists have caused around the world?

Do you find it ironic that we are fighting a war on terror, yet the USA and certain allies have used jihadists in North Africa to bring down dictators they no longer have any use for, and are using them now in Syria to try and get Assad out of the way? More disturbing for you should be the fact that they receive training in Saudi Arabia and Turkey. Even more disturbing should be the fact they are being funded and armed by the USA and certain allies.

I doubt you even know the first thing about any of that, given how our media isn't criticizing America for any of it.
So naturally, you've got no fake outrage to show over any of those things.

Go back to your sheltered life and don't worry about what's going on in the rest of the world.
It's too bad we can't build a wall around clueless sheep like you, and keep you off the Internet.

He knows and purposely denies it, pro USA shill or even paid troll.

 

[Zidane98]

Haha the rebels have virtually destroyed donetsk airport. Government forces have been defending it for months.

Just being reported that NATO is considering helping Ukraine defend against Russian aggression. About time and will finally rid Ukraine of Russian aggression.

 

[Zidane98]

He knows and purposely denies it, pro USA shill or even paid troll.

Oh the irony.

 

[awaremind]

Haha the rebels have virtually destroyed donetsk airport. Government forces have been defending it for months.

Just being reported that NATO is considering helping Ukraine defend against Russian aggression. About time and will finally rid Ukraine of Russian aggression.

Cheering ww3 in, classy.

BTW Donetsk Airport was being used as a major base for Artillary strikes on civilian areas, in the past months it had been a major battle ground, where, in the last month the UAF suffered a major defeat losing as many as 1000 men KIA. It was initially attacked by The Ukrainian airforce, which surprised the NAF as they foolishly believed Kiev would not attack its own multi-billion dollar infrastructure. Wrong. Kiev is intent on razing East Ukraine.

 

[Zidane98]

Cheering ww3 in, classy.

Coming from the person advocating Russia attacking Ukraine via the rebels. You're hopeless.

Oh and by the way your lovely rebel friends didn't turn up for peace talks brokered by the OSCE in Minsk. This despite Ukraine offering limited autonomy to rebel areas on the basis that a neutral party (OSCE) run an election. Of course that wasn't good enough for them and they ran their own illegitimate elections.

Wasnt it lovely of them that instead of attending peace talks they were launching violent illegal offensives against government forces. If NATO gets involved and destroys them they and Russia are to blame because they do not want peace and are only interested in maintaining Russia's aggression over their neighbour.

 

[awaremind]

Hah thats not true, the last ceasefire was only used by the Ukraine to regroup, without ever actually stopping the relentless bombardment of civilian areas. If nato gets involved most likely they will also see Russia getting involved, then Pre-emptive nuclear strikes are next. Is that really what Europe wants?

 

[awaremind]

These are the bombs Ukraine is using on civilian areas.

 

[awaremind]

The SAMs has however grounded the Ukraine Air force, which was being used to target Residential apartment complexes, and other civilian targets in Donetsk, possibly saving thousands of lives..... wait I forgot 1 western life is infinately more important than a Russian(or middle eastern, or african, or vietnamese etc) life. No the militia should not have Nukes, nor should the UKR army.
Also there is no conclusive proof of what happened the that plane.

Here is a Nazi style torchlight rally in Kiev.

 

[FPPF]

These are the bombs Ukraine is using on civilian areas.

Nah mate, don't you know, Vladimir Putin hand delivered that him self and planted it there so the media can take photos and use it as propaganda.
Those kids, they are really Russian kids he carried on his shoulders at the same time.

 

[Zidane98]

This just gets better and better. You don't know me or why I have an interest in Russia's war against Ukraine. For starters, I have a work colleague Ukranian background. His parents are from Kharkiv. The Ukranian community here universally condemns Russia's actions in this war. There's a reason why there have been numerous protests against Russian aggression from expat Ukranians here at Russian consultates and/or embassies.

This war has nothing to do with America - that's just typical Russian propaganda used as an excuse to exercise unlawful military action against Ukraine. And your Russian puppet mate was removed by his very own party because of blatant corruption and lawlessness. You're delusional if you think America had anything to do with it. How dare Ukranians chase democracy and a fair way of life and escape the clutches of fascist Russians. How cheeky of them.

The facts are that no other source is reporting Ukranian government forces attacking civilians apart from Russian ones. And that includes OCSE reporters who are neutral observers.

Continue on eating up russian propaganda though, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Zidane98]

So ethnic Russians wanting to protect them selves from western backed fascists who want to ethnic cleanse them from their homes, ethnic Russian's who want independence or union with Russia, is not acceptable? It's illegal?

Are you forgetting the precedent America and it's European allies set in Kosovo?
Kosovo was part of a sovereign country. The KLA were terrorists, and listed as such, until the war began.
Attacks were being carried by the KLA before the war started. Hence the war starting.

They too did not want to be part of a sovereign country, for whatever reasons they had. Do you agree Kosovo should be an independent country, broken away from a sovereign country?

You probably don't know anything about it since no Australian's were killed there.

The United States of America opened this can of worms with what they did in Kosovo.
Ever wonder why the Russian's stayed silent and didn't make a fuss about it?
Well, Georgia should be an example. The West backs one group who want independence, doesn't back the others.

It's called geopolitical interests. The world powers act accordingly to their interests.

But hey friend, sit on BigFooty raging about filthy scum Russians, acting like you actually understand what's going on in the world.
Because everything is as simple as the propaganda that has you glued to the television nightly.

At least some of us understand that things aren't simply black and white.
Now to you that may seem like we support the other side. But in reality we aren't ignorant muppets like you.

It isn't ethnic Russians. It is Russian forces themselves attacking Ukranian armed forces. If you can't see how that is wrong then you honestly cannot be helped. If Russia backs out of Ukraine the separatists will soon run out of weaponry and peace will occur. Russian separatists have brought nothing but death & destruction to the region, nobody can deny that.

Russia do have a right in maintaining their interests in Ukraine. Just not in the fashion they are doing it. Everything was fine until separtists came along - they need to be eliminated and an independent government elected who are willing to maintain links to Russia in the donestk/lugansk areas. That's the only way this will be resolved.