Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 shot down 295 dead.

[Long Live HFC]

You keep repeating this - its a lie.

to be fair i didn't repeat myself, i asked you to provide me with something to read.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/04/who-governing-ukraine-olexander-turchynov
I'm guessing this cabinet looked nothing at all like the previous one- note the Svoboda party members. Not that We'll Get those Bastards Yatsenyuk is any better.

the new government was formed from sitting MPs, which is my point.

And the New Rada looks nothing like the old one.

and i am not referring to the post-election makeup of the parliament.

 

[awaremind]

to be fair i didn't repeat myself, i asked you to provide me with something to read.



the new government was formed from sitting MPs, which is my point.



and i am not referring to the post-election makeup of the parliament.

ok I just cut and pasted this. worldwar2015 or whatever his name is kept religiously repeating there was no change substantially as if it were like Abbot getting replaced with Turnbull, when it was more akin to the greens getting replaced with one Nation.

yes it was formed from sitting mps, but it pretty much got turned upside down, especially with all those Svoboda and Fatherland party members now in charge.


The Hungarian west of Ukraine is breaking away now too. albeit more peacefully

 

[Long Live HFC]

when it was more akin to the greens getting replaced with one Nation.

fair enough.

 

[FPPF]

While some people are hot to join the anti-Russia/anti-Putin bandwagon, because the television has told them Russia/Putin = bad, the facts are these.
Both sides are pouring out propaganda since this conflict started.
But one can not deny the fact that NATO/the US have been pushing NATO further and further into Russia's sphere, to the point where it is now on Russia's door step. Do any of you know why NATO exists? The mere fact that it is now on Russia's door step, well, you don't have to be a genius to figure out why they feel threatened and are now taking action. Not that we have to agree with their action, but their action in Ukraine and Georgia, is a result of NATO imperialistic expansion, and can be justified by exactly what the USA/West did in Kosovo, and what they are doing in Syria and have done in many other places. Remember, since the fall of the USSR Russia was dormant and not a problem to anyone else. Low and behold after over a decade of NATO and American expansion up to Russia's borders, the Russian's have had enough. Who would have thought.

And as for swallowing Russian propaganda, maybe you should open your eyes and accept the fact that both sides spread propaganda and neither side has a free and independent press(certainly not a mainstream press).
Here's some interesting little tidbits about the American media and the direct links with administrations.

-ABC News executive producer Ian Cameron is married to Susan Rice, National Security Adviser.
-CBS President David Rhodes is the brother of Ben Rhodes, Obama's Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications.
-ABC News correspondent Claire Shipman is married to former Whitehouse Press Secretary Jay Carney
-ABC News and Univision reporter Matthew Jaffe is married to Katie Hogan, Obama's Deputy Press Secretary
-ABC President Ben Sherwood is the brother of Obama's Special Adviser Elizabeth Sherwood
-Sen. Scott Brown is married to a TV news reportor
-While Giuliani was mayor of NYC his wife Donna Hanover was a local news anchor, radio DJ and Food Network host
-George H. W. Bush's nephew John Prescott Ellis worked for NBC while he was in office and running for office and then later for Fox News, including infamously being responsible for calling states on the 2000 election night. His cousin awarded him the Distinguished Civilian Service Award in 2005.
-Former CNN host Campbell Brown is married to Dan Senor who in addition to being a journalist and frequent Fox News contributor, was Mitt Romney's senior foreign policy adviser for the 2012 campaign.
-Andrea Mitchell formerly of NBC and now a MSNBC host has been married to former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan since 1997.
-Christiane Amanpour's husband James Rubin (married 1998), a sometimes journalist, worked in the Clinton administration and on Hillary's 2008 campaign and then worked for Bloomberg for a year before being appointed to commissioner of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey by Andrew Cuomo.


Still think the press is free?

U.S. Congressional Record February 9, 1917, page 2947
Congressman Calloway announced that the
J.P. Morgan interests bought 25 of America's leading newspapers, and
inserted their own editors, in order to control the media.

...

“In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, ship building and powder interests and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press in the United States.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Morgan-Buys-Newspapers9feb17.htm

Keep thinking what you see/read/hear in the media(be it western or Russian) is the truth, particularly when it comes to geopolitics and wars.


Your freedom is just an illusion.

 

[CountryRace]

6 companies own 90% yank media


Nae free

 

[Long Live HFC]

While some people are hot to join the anti-Russia/anti-Putin bandwagon, because the television has told them Russia/Putin = bad, the facts are these.
Both sides are pouring out propaganda since this conflict started.
But one can not deny the fact that NATO/the US have been pushing NATO further and further into Russia's sphere, to the point where it is now on Russia's door step. Do any of you know why NATO exists? The mere fact that it is now on Russia's door step, well, you don't have to be a genius to figure out why they feel threatened and are now taking action. Not that we have to agree with their action, but their action in Ukraine and Georgia, is a result of NATO imperialistic expansion, and can be justified by exactly what the USA/West did in Kosovo, and what they are doing in Syria and have done in many other places. Remember, since the fall of the USSR Russia was dormant and not a problem to anyone else. Low and behold after over a decade of NATO and American expansion up to Russia's borders, the Russian's have had enough. Who would have thought.

And as for swallowing Russian propaganda, maybe you should open your eyes and accept the fact that both sides spread propaganda and neither side has a free and independent press(certainly not a mainstream press).
Here's some interesting little tidbits about the American media and the direct links with administrations.

-ABC News executive producer Ian Cameron is married to Susan Rice, National Security Adviser.
-CBS President David Rhodes is the brother of Ben Rhodes, Obama's Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications.
-ABC News correspondent Claire Shipman is married to former Whitehouse Press Secretary Jay Carney
-ABC News and Univision reporter Matthew Jaffe is married to Katie Hogan, Obama's Deputy Press Secretary
-ABC President Ben Sherwood is the brother of Obama's Special Adviser Elizabeth Sherwood
-Sen. Scott Brown is married to a TV news reportor
-While Giuliani was mayor of NYC his wife Donna Hanover was a local news anchor, radio DJ and Food Network host
-George H. W. Bush's nephew John Prescott Ellis worked for NBC while he was in office and running for office and then later for Fox News, including infamously being responsible for calling states on the 2000 election night. His cousin awarded him the Distinguished Civilian Service Award in 2005.
-Former CNN host Campbell Brown is married to Dan Senor who in addition to being a journalist and frequent Fox News contributor, was Mitt Romney's senior foreign policy adviser for the 2012 campaign.
-Andrea Mitchell formerly of NBC and now a MSNBC host has been married to former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan since 1997.
-Christiane Amanpour's husband James Rubin (married 1998), a sometimes journalist, worked in the Clinton administration and on Hillary's 2008 campaign and then worked for Bloomberg for a year before being appointed to commissioner of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey by Andrew Cuomo.


Still think the press is free?


http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Morgan-Buys-Newspapers9feb17.htm

Keep thinking what you see/read/hear in the media(be it western or Russian) is the truth, particularly when it comes to geopolitics and wars.


Your freedom is just an illusion.

none of that changes the obvious fact that Russian-backed separatists shot down MH17.

 

[CountryRace]

On August 7th, three weeks after Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over East Ukraine, a secret agreement was signed between the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine about the investigation into the disaster. The Dutch Public Prosecution Service was to lead the investigation, as two-thirds of the victims had the Dutch nationality.

Details about this secret agreement were revealed on August 29th by Eurojust. There appears to be a non-disclosure agreement in which one of the four countries has the power to veto the publication of results of the investigation. It appears that Malaysia also participated in the talks about forming a joint investigation team (JIT), but refused to sign the agreement. The result is that Malaysia now is only part of the technical investigation team, and not part of the team behind the criminal probe.


https://ukraineantifascistsolidarit...ning-of-mh17-malayisian-plane-remains-secret/

Bit odd, no?

 

[CountryRace]

It's all about me


Mario balotelli and country race

 

[awaremind]

none of that changes the obvious fact that Russian-backed separatists shot down MH17.

Obviously that is what this thread is about, but at worse it appears to be an accident by rebels, at worst a false flag conspiracy to push for greater support for Ukraine in the war. And regardless of that this is about a violent coup, a nation destroying itself with heavy weapons, and more lately an absolutely inept military and political farce in which the Ukraine sacrificed 3000 of its soldiers in Debaltsevo, and up to a third of its weaponry. In the last ceasefire Poroshenko boasted on video of how they were using the ceasefire to regroup and prepare for another offensive. Its a bad look. Debaltsevo was a slaughter, the political ramifications of this disaster are yet to hit home for Kiev, It may well set off another revolution, in which the armed neo-nazi militias unite for a true Nazi coup.

Poroshenko is a US agent, this is proven here.
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06KIEV1706_a.html

 

[Long Live HFC]

Obviously that is what this thread is about, but at worse it appears to be an accident by rebels

sure, but that's what happens when you have undisciplined thugs with advanced weaponry and no oversight.

at worst a false flag conspiracy to push for greater support for Ukraine in the war.

only idiots entertain this possibility.

 

[awaremind]

sure, but that's what happens when you have undisciplined thugs with advanced weaponry and no oversight.



only idiots entertain this possibility.

Ha ha who are the undisciplined thugs now ? The highly successful and organised NAF or the slowly disintegrating hopeless rabble that makes up the UAF? Do I need to post the article that has a former UK based trainer of the UAF blaming HALF thier losses on friendly fire and poor equiptment
? Focus on the poor equipment if you want but better weapons in the hands of the hopeless at all levels, especially the general staff, UAF would only see advanced weapons lost to the pro-Russian forces and give Russia an excuse to even more heavily arm the NAF- Destroying Ukraine even more effectively.

Advanced US radar systems have already fallen into the NAF's hands.

 

[Long Live HFC]

The Ukrainian forces are the legitimate monopolisers of violence in the country. Their actions may be reprehensible, and if that could be proven in the hague then those responsible should be prosecuted. That doesn’t excuse the illegitimate cowboys that shot down a commercial airliner.

 

[awaremind]

I'm sure it could be proven I'm not sure it will. I'm absolutely sure sure that the Donbass peoples army is deeply regretful if it was they that shot the plane, after all it is their relatives that make up the vast majority of (the5600 or so at the UN's reportedly very conservative estimates of the) death toll. One thing I have learnt in the past year of so of researching this is that the russians are warlike people, or at least are becoming that way, to not expect this whole disaster after the maidan overthrow is foolish.

 

[Slax]

I'm sure it could be proven I'm not sure it will. I'm absolutely sure sure that the Donbass peoples army is deeply regretful if it was they that shot the plane, after all it is their relatives that make up the vast majority of (the5600 or so at the UN's reportedly very conservative estimates of the) death toll. One thing I have learnt in the past year of so of researching this is that the russians are warlike people, or at least are becoming that way, to not expect this whole disaster after the maidan overthrow is foolish.

I'm willing to bet they regretted it a day after it happened, it was clear that their was always going to be a large western backed campaign against them, if MH17 had never gone down then NATO would've talked a bit then let it die, Russian sanctions wouldn't of happened and UAF would've lost far more ground to the rebels than they have.

NATO and the EU are tiring of this, it is costing the money and given what Greece is in the process of doing that is money that they are going to desperately need.

 

[awaremind]

I'm willing to bet they regretted it a day after it happened, it was clear that their was always going to be a large western backed campaign against them, if MH17 had never gone down then NATO would've talked a bit then let it die, Russian sanctions wouldn't of happened and UAF would've lost far more ground to the rebels than they have.

NATO and the EU are tiring of this, it is costing the money and given what Greece is in the process of doing that is money that they are going to desperately need.

Agreed, I think the EU and russia are both very keen for the current ceasefire to work. Bot the NAF leadership and the Ukrainians both however saying they expect fighting to resume in late march.

The debalcevo debacle nearly derailed it, why the Ukrainian leadership didn't just let them lay down their weapons and escape alive is an important question.

 

[CountryRace]

I'm willing to bet they regretted it a day after it happened, it was clear that their was always going to be a large western backed campaign against them, if MH17 had never gone down then NATO would've talked a bit then let it die, Russian sanctions wouldn't of happened and UAF would've lost far more ground to the rebels than they have.

NATO and the EU are tiring of this, it is costing the money and given what Greece is in the process of doing that is money that they are going to desperately need.

It was one year ago last weekend that a violent coup overthrew the legally elected government of Ukraine. That coup was not only supported by US and EU governments -- much of it was actually planned by them. Looking back at the events that led to the overthrow it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation.

By the end of 2013, Ukraine’s economy was in ruins. The government was desperate for an economic bailout and then-president Yanukovych first looked west to the US and EU before deciding to accept an offer of help from Russia. Residents of south and east Ukraine, who largely speak Russian and trade extensively with Russia were pleased with the decision. West Ukrainians who identify with Poland and Europe began to protest. Ukraine is a deeply divided country and the president came from the eastern region.

At this point the conflict was just another chapter in Ukraine’s difficult post-Soviet history. There was bound to be some discontent over the decision, but if there had been no foreign intervention in support of the protests you would likely not be reading this column today. The problem may well have solved itself in due time rather than escalated into a full-out civil war. But the interventionists in the US and EU won out again, and their interventionist project has been a disaster.

The protests at the end of 2013 grew more dramatic and violent and soon a steady stream of US and EU politicians were openly participating, as protesters called for the overthrow of the Ukrainian government. Senator John McCain made several visits to Kiev and even addressed the crowd to encourage them.

Imagine if a foreign leader like Putin or Assad came to Washington to encourage protesters to overthrow the Obama Administration!
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...onism-kills-post-coup-ukraine-one-year-later/

 

[Long Live HFC]

It was one year ago last weekend that a violent coup overthrew the legally elected government of Ukraine. That coup was not only supported by US and EU governments -- much of it was actually planned by them. Looking back at the events that led to the overthrow it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation.

By the end of 2013, Ukraine’s economy was in ruins. The government was desperate for an economic bailout and then-president Yanukovych first looked west to the US and EU before deciding to accept an offer of help from Russia. Residents of south and east Ukraine, who largely speak Russian and trade extensively with Russia were pleased with the decision. West Ukrainians who identify with Poland and Europe began to protest. Ukraine is a deeply divided country and the president came from the eastern region.

At this point the conflict was just another chapter in Ukraine’s difficult post-Soviet history. There was bound to be some discontent over the decision, but if there had been no foreign intervention in support of the protests you would likely not be reading this column today. The problem may well have solved itself in due time rather than escalated into a full-out civil war. But the interventionists in the US and EU won out again, and their interventionist project has been a disaster.

The protests at the end of 2013 grew more dramatic and violent and soon a steady stream of US and EU politicians were openly participating, as protesters called for the overthrow of the Ukrainian government. Senator John McCain made several visits to Kiev and even addressed the crowd to encourage them.

Imagine if a foreign leader like Putin or Assad came to Washington to encourage protesters to overthrow the Obama Administration!
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...onism-kills-post-coup-ukraine-one-year-later/

you're such a ******* twat. you're all supportive of americans using guns against their government to "protect their freedoms", but when someone actually does that (mostly non-violently as well), you come here and post utter rubbish decrying it. you're a partisan w***er of the highest order and should be ashamed at the shallowness of your worldview and inability to get virtually anything right.

 

[awaremind]

you're such a ******* twat. you're all supportive of americans using guns against their government to "protect their freedoms", but when someone actually does that (mostly non-violently as well), you come here and post utter rubbish decrying it. you're a partisan ****** of the highest order and should be ashamed at the shallowness of your worldview and inability to get virtually anything right.

Evil triumphs when good people do nothing. He is doing what he thinks is right and if nothing else he is showing an alternative narrative which may make some people at least, think more critically.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Evil triumphs when good people do nothing. He is doing what he thinks is right and if nothing else he is showing an alternative narrative which may make some people at least, think more critically.

evil triumphs when idiots don't post drivel on the internet?

 

[awaremind]

evil triumphs when idiots don't post drivel on the internet?

that article he posted was Ron Paul, he is pretty credible.
basically the situation now is dpr and lpr have won and there will be a major war before this will change.
Haven't you noticed Putins implicit gloating lately?

 

[awaremind]

Its seems to me that the russians think there is a more than 50 per cent chance of Ukraine either splitting up or totally collapsing.

 

[Long Live HFC]

that article he posted was Ron Paul, he is pretty credible.

ron paul is an arseclown.

 

[carnthemlions]

It was one year ago last weekend that a violent coup overthrew the legally elected government of Ukraine. That coup was not only supported by US and EU governments -- much of it was actually planned by them. Looking back at the events that led to the overthrow it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation.

By the end of 2013, Ukraine’s economy was in ruins. The government was desperate for an economic bailout and then-president Yanukovych first looked west to the US and EU before deciding to accept an offer of help from Russia. Residents of south and east Ukraine, who largely speak Russian and trade extensively with Russia were pleased with the decision. West Ukrainians who identify with Poland and Europe began to protest. Ukraine is a deeply divided country and the president came from the eastern region.

At this point the conflict was just another chapter in Ukraine’s difficult post-Soviet history. There was bound to be some discontent over the decision, but if there had been no foreign intervention in support of the protests you would likely not be reading this column today. The problem may well have solved itself in due time rather than escalated into a full-out civil war. But the interventionists in the US and EU won out again, and their interventionist project has been a disaster.

The protests at the end of 2013 grew more dramatic and violent and soon a steady stream of US and EU politicians were openly participating, as protesters called for the overthrow of the Ukrainian government. Senator John McCain made several visits to Kiev and even addressed the crowd to encourage them.

Imagine if a foreign leader like Putin or Assad came to Washington to encourage protesters to overthrow the Obama Administration!
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...onism-kills-post-coup-ukraine-one-year-later/

Mate, take it to the conspiracy board.

that article he posted was Ron Paul, he is pretty credible.
basically the situation now is dpr and lpr have won and there will be a major war before this will change.
Haven't you noticed Putins implicit gloating lately?

* you're gullible.
By the way, I'm a Nigerian prince in need of financial support. PMing you my bank details now.

 

[CountryRace]

Putin says it.

http://thehill.com/policy/international/207053-putin-says-us-backed-a-coup-in-ukraine

Its not as if the yanks don't have a history of it.

 

[FPPF]

yes yes, "just asking questions", like i said. maybe there was a false flag attack! lulz.

It wasn't me who claimed it may have been a false flag, but someone else. I simply included it in my post since that's what was being discussed from the few posts I skimmed over.

Someone also posted the fact that several countries, including our own, have signed a non-disclosure agreement.

If the situation is so clear cut like some of you like to believe since that's what the tv man said, then why the need for secrecy?
What is there to hide exactly?
If Russia is unquestionably guilty of the shootdown, either directly or indirectly by supplying those weapons to the separatists, then why the need for a coverup? Odd how that doesn't get any media attention. Hm, could it be because it's not in someones interests.

Most normal people would be asking why there's a need for secrecy.

Because things aren't black and white and as clear cut as some of you think.


Now for a change, instead of your immature, hostile and abusive replies, maybe try and formulate a serious reply and generate some civilized discussion.
Wont hold my breath but look forward to a few laughs later tonight.