Malthouse - under the pump.

[Fadge]

Blab, blab, blab. "If you were any good ..." blab blab blab. Anthony, Lockley and O'Bree. LMAO!

No mate. No.1 ruckman. No.1 KPF. And No.1 in-form midfielder. Didn't all go right for the Blues. You're just talking crap, even you're unaware of it.

Give me a year in the past ten years where as much went right for the Blues as it did in 2011?

 

[Monkey King]

Of course using he description of "a good honest player " can be an insult. If you said GAJ is just a good honset player you are clearly running him down. No matter what definition you apply GAJ doesn't fit that.

No no no. We all know Burns is nowhere near an elite player, so talking about GAJ is just silly and pointless. When we're talking about players of Burns ilk, being called a good honest player is no insult at all.

My 1st thought is you were selling Burns short but it depends on definition. If you say you apply such a term to all bar club champions Burns fits the bill.
In his generation he is considered in the top 5-6 or if you stretch it out to 20 years we agree he is around 10-15 in the order. So a club like the Collingwood teams Burns played in, rated as a good but not great side, would expect to get maybe 1 player who is a good honest type or better every 2 years or so. The other 15 or so players that might enter a club over that time would be in the average to poor level.

Means you have a very strct definition of what a good player is, I would be more relaxed than you.

Pisser of a comment. You've been anything but relaxed in arriving at your definition. I've called Burns a good honest player. I think most would agree that's not an at all unreasonable description of the player; and certainly some Collingwood posters do agree, which gives a good indication. Your response has been to accuse me running down players, being biased and producing this concocted system above of "1 good honest player every 2 years". For me, I just look at the player and say he's a good honest type. A far more relaxed definition I would think. What do you want me to say, that Burns was a great player?

As to Daicos, Millane and T Shaw I didn't include them as I was looking at the cohort of players who crossed careers over with Burns. They were of an earlier generation. Heath Shaw just does cross over and could conceivably fit just into your definition of a good honest type. However his career to date is well behind the one Burns produced so I didn't really see him as relevent.

I'd say do a Collingwood best 22 for everyone who's pulled on the jumper over the last 20 years.

B: Johnson - Presti - Brown
HB: Shaw - Reid - Clement
C: Thomas - Buckley - Beams
HF: Didak - Cloke - Sidebottom
F: Tarrant - Rocca - Davis
Foll: Jolly - Swan - Pendlebury

Int: McGuane, Shaw, Licuria, A Rocca

Now granted this isn't a best player list. It's a best 22 based on position. And it's based more on the ilk of the player, rather than what they produced over the full span of that 20 year period; but to me Burns would make the bench or emergency list at best. And that's about the place for a good honest player IMO. That's not an insult, but I think it's a pretty reasonable assessment.

 

[Monkey King]

Give me a year in the past ten years where as much went right for the Blues as it did in 2011?

So what you're saying is that not much has gone right for the Blues over the last 10 years. I wouldn't disagree.

 

[forwardflanker]

It's called trading Ironic that lack of trading is what you criticised Carlton for last year. This year it is seems to be active trading.

Let's face it; you're a hater and will hate no matter what's actually going on.

Oh here we go, now we're haters and trolls ... lol

Just face it MK, what's happening now to Carlton is what reasonable posters like Fadge and Wayne Arnold have been saying for several years now. You were either too biased, stupid or arrogant to accept the clear weaknesses of Carlton instead choosing to ignore them up until now where Carlton find themselves facing their greatest crisis since the Pagan years. Rather than listen to reason, you've instead berated any critical poster with an avalanche of nonsense posts as if the shear quantity of them would settle the issue. Well I have news for you Monkey, this is your day of reckoning. Carlton sit 0-4, lack any leadership whatsoever, have had endless amounts of draft picks squandered and MM has failed miserably.

 

[forwardflanker]

It's called trading Ironic that lack of trading is what you criticised Carlton for last year. This year it is seems to be active trading.

Let's face it; you're a hater and will hate no matter what's actually going on.



Umm ... you finished below Carlton last year right? Not sure you understand how this draft thingy works

Out:
- Bettes (could really use him right now)
- Hampson (ditto)

In:
Thomas (overpayed and has had 0 impact)
Docherty (lets face it if he can't get a game atm he must be struggling.)
Everitt (just another list clogger)

Yep, great trading. I actually understand now why they didn't want to do any two seasons ago

 

[chunkylover53]

Out:
- Bettes (could really use him right now)
- Hampson (ditto)

In:
Thomas (overpayed and has had 0 impact)
Docherty (lets face it if he can't get a game atm he must be struggling.)
Everitt (just another list clogger)

Yep, great trading. I actually understand now why they didn't want to do any two seasons ago

Don't talk s**t mate.

Betts got $650k to leave, as if we're going to match that for a small forward.

Hampson - really? The bloke was close to worst on ground on the weekend and has otherwise been injured, getting a 2nd round pick for him was huge.

Thomas - The jury is out, hasn't had much impact but he hasn't played much footy and is coming off some injuries. Can't say I support the move but give it a rest before you completely write it off.

Docherty - His father passed away and had a string of unfortunate injuries over the pre-season, has played his first 2 games in the VFL recently and has been amongst the best in both. You clearly don't know much of his situation.

Everitt - An honest player, has good attributes and has been one of our better players, cost us next to nothing.

I guess Collingwood are genius' because Jesse White had a day out against Richmond right?

 

[theaflife]

Don't talk s**t mate.

Betts got $650k to leave, as if we're going to match that for a small forward.

Hampson - really? The bloke was close to worst on ground on the weekend and has otherwise been injured, getting a 2nd round pick for him was huge.

Thomas - The jury is out, hasn't had much impact but he hasn't played much footy and is coming off some injuries. Can't say I support the move but give it a rest before you completely write it off.

Docherty - His father passed away and had a string of unfortunate injuries over the pre-season, has played his first 2 games in the VFL recently and has been amongst the best in both. You clearly don't know much of his situation.

Everitt - An honest player, has good attributes and has been one of our better players, cost us next to nothing.

I guess Collingwood are genius' because Jesse White had a day out against Richmond right?

You paid 700k for Daisy on a 4 year contract so i dont understand why you think 650 for Betts is so out of the picture at Carlton?

 

[chunkylover53]

You paid 700k for Daisy on a 4 year contract so i dont understand why you think 650 for Betts is so out of the picture at Carlton?

You pay overs to attract Free Agents, you don't pay that much to keep.

Dale is a midfielder and at his best, is one of the best in the competition. Betts is a gun small forward but we already have Menzel, Garlett, Ellard and Yarran who are small to medium forward.

You paid $1mil for Cloke, would have you supported Collingwood paying Betts 600k?

 

[Fadge]

So what you're saying is that not much has gone right for the Blues over the last 10 years. I wouldn't disagree.

Interesting tangent to go down, but you're intentionally avoiding the question.

Part and parcel of AFL football is player unavailability - through injury, AFL suspension, Club imposed suspension, sitting on sidelines waiting for court appearances, etc.

You blokes in 2011 had an unbelievable run with regard to player availability, particularly given the fragility of your list. And you were still zero from seven against the top four sides (not sure if I've mentioned that before).

 

[Fadge]

Oh here we go, now we're haters and trolls ... lol

Just face it MK, what's happening now to Carlton is what reasonable posters like Fadge and Wayne Arnold have been saying for several years now. You were either too biased, stupid or arrogant to accept the clear weaknesses of Carlton instead choosing to ignore them up until now where Carlton find themselves facing their greatest crisis since the Pagan years. Rather than listen to reason, you've instead berated any critical poster with an avalanche of nonsense posts as if the shear quantity of them would settle the issue. Well I have news for you Monkey, this is your day of reckoning. Carlton sit 0-4, lack any leadership whatsoever, have had endless amounts of draft picks squandered and MM has failed miserably.

Nail. Head.

Post of 2014. (not just because you gave me a plug)

You shouldn't be so modest though forwardflanker; yourself and Timmy are at the top of this list

 

[Fadge]

I guess Collingwood are genius' because Jesse White had a day out against Richmond right?

Not really, we just recruited to fill a gap as opposed to trading for the sake of it, or for revenge, or for whatever reason the Carlton hierarchy and faithful use to justify the Thomas experiment.

 

[chunkylover53]

Not really, we just recruited to fill a gap as opposed to trading for the sake of it, or for revenge, or for whatever reason the Carlton hierarchy and faithful use to justify the Thomas experiment.

How can you possibly write off recruits as a failure 4 games into their 4-year contract?

Far out.

Henderson was close to our worst player while Fev was kicking bags in Brisbane. We were being laughed at. Things change, its round 4.

 

[Fadge]

How can you possibly write off recruits as a failure 4 games into their 4-year contract?

Far out.

Henderson was close to our worst player while Fev was kicking bags in Brisbane. We were being laughed at. Things change, its round 4.

I didn't write it off (maybe you are sub-consciously?).

Many posters and commentators are questioning the money thrown at Thomas when you had more glaring deficiencies to address.

Henderson and Thomas were at very different stages of their careers when they came to Carlton. The Henderson trade is exactly what building a club is all about. Sadly for Carlton, trades of this nature have been the exception rather than the norm in the modern age.

 

[forwardflanker]

I guess Collingwood are genius' because Jesse White had a day out against Richmond right?

We're not paying Jessie White 700k a year. He's been quite good for us though.

 

[forwardflanker]

How can you possibly write off recruits as a failure 4 games into their 4-year contract?

Far out.

Henderson was close to our worst player while Fev was kicking bags in Brisbane. We were being laughed at. Things change, its round 4.

Nah you only have to look at the way he is moving around the ground to realise he is done. He isn't even fast in the first quarter. Not only is his disposal count down but most of them are meaningless short kicks on the wing and half back. The defensive side of his game, that made him what he was in 2010-11, is non existent. He came to Carlton under a huge cloud concerning whether he could get back to his best, the preseason and the first four games are enough to suggest to me that he'll never get back there.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

Zero/four will tell all that MM is definitely under the pump. If I were Carlton, I'd TANK for the remaining games. Now, you may get a fine but you wont lose draft picks, just ask Melbourne.

 

[chunkylover53]

Nah you only have to look at the way he is moving around the ground to realise he is done. He isn't even fast in the first quarter. Not only is his disposal count down but most of them are meaningless short kicks on the wing and half back. The defensive side of his game, that made him what he was in 2010-11, is non existent. He came to Carlton under a huge cloud concerning whether he could get back to his best, the preseason and the first four games are enough to suggest to me that he'll never get back there.

You say this, but even if Thomas was to have a blinder 3 weeks in a row, you and the rest of you would still be writing him off and calling the recruit a bust.

Judd has dragged us from the bottom and won every achievement along the way, yet the lot of you still talk down that recruit.

 

[forwardflanker]

You pay overs to attract Free Agents, you don't pay that much to keep.

Actually this statement is not 100% true. The better statement is "Struggling clubs pay overs to attract free agents, successful clubs get them at the right price or cheaper". The fact Carlton are paying Thomas overs close to 500k is telling imo.

 

[Fadge]

You say this, but even if Thomas was to have a blinder 3 weeks in a row, you and the rest of you would still be writing him off and calling the recruit a bust.

Judd has dragged us from the bottom and won every achievement along the way, yet the lot of you still talk down that recruit.

Have you contended for a Premiership during Judd's time at the club?

Do you look like contending at all in the short to medium term?

I guess nowadays Collingwood and Carlton supporters have varying definitions of success?

 

[Collingwood HQ]

Malthouse has always had a cool head when he is under the pump, but lately he has been explaining carlton's performances a little like this to the media.

 

[chunkylover53]

Actually this statement is not 100% true. The better statement is "Struggling clubs pay overs to attract free agents, successful clubs get them at the right price or cheaper". The fact Carlton are paying Thomas overs close to 500k is telling imo.

Isn't your club paying Cloke close to $1m per year? .

You're paying a ridiculous amount to keep an underachieving player. No other club has had to pay such an amount to keep one of their players.

I think any club looking to pay one of their clubs players a ridiculous amount in comparison to other players on the team are stupid, simple (apart from your young teams trying to recruit Judd and Ablett).

Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Sydney are all as stupid as each other. There is no correct or incorrect statement.

The fact Collingwood are playing Cloke close to $1m is telling imo

 

[chunkylover53]

Have you contended for a Premiership during Judd's time at the club?

Do you look like contending at all in the short to medium term?

I guess nowadays Collingwood and Carlton supporters have varying definitions of success?

So Judd is supposed to win us a flag on his own?

He did everything he could for Carlton, Carlton did not do everything it could for Judd.

 

[Magruder]

Fevola kicked 59 goals the year prior to Judd joining,. He kicked 84 the year prior. Kicked on too with more goals.

At just 25 years of age in the peak of his powers youre telling me he had zero trade value? Get your hand off it. The longer you held on to him the further his trade value fell as his wayward behaviour worsened....DESPITE kicking bags of goals right up until the end.

Carlton wanted to keep Fev over Kennedy. They always choose profile over potential. Have been doing it for years. They spent the Betts compensation pick on Thomas.

Not correct. we actually tried to tie Fev into the Judd deal instead of Josh. WCE wouldn't go there.

 

[Tommy Magpie]

Embarrassing performance from Malt Milkhouse on Footy Classified. Just watched the replay and would be sickened if I was a Carlton fan

 

[forwardflanker]

Have you contended for a Premiership during Judd's time at the club?

Do you look like contending at all in the short to medium term?

I guess nowadays Collingwood and Carlton supporters have varying definitions of success?

I see a lot of Carlton supporters claim that Judd was a success because he dragged them off the bottom of the ladder and changed the clubs culture. How can this be characterized as successful when as soon as the bloke gets injured and close to retirement the club heads straight back into the doldrums again? How can it be said that he changed the culture of the club when as soon as he misses a month they lose all their games including one to the basket case of the competition?

I tell you what I've seen this Carlton team before. I saw them getting pumped by opposition teams 6 months before they recruited Judd - they were terrible then and they're terrible now. It seems to me that the Judd era has brought them back to exactly where they started. The claim that Judd changed the on field playing culture of the club is very dubious indeed.