Martin or Luey?

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I think most people arent arguing that Martin has to make way for Bergs, most are saying play both, and likely Merrett gets displaced. Although ultimately I think that pushes out a defender and Merrett goes back to rusty fist mode.
 
jackess said:
He isn't playing his role well though he's playing it poorly, tonight he played it very poorly. He very rarely got to the right position and even more rarely looked like taking a contested mark. Just lucky we don't have anyone better.
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That entirely ddependson what his role up forward is. If it is to take contested marks and kick goals then I agree, he is woeful. However I think he is simply there to provide a contest, be a big body and bring the ball to ground to bring our ground level players into the game. And if so, then he is doing a fine job. TBH I though he could have got a few frees early on, looks to be getting held a lot... and punched on occasion.
 
chopperduck said:
I think most people arent arguing that Martin has to make way for Bergs, most are saying play both, and likely Merrett gets displaced. Although ultimately I think that pushes out a defender and Merrett goes back to rusty fist mode.
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I think it pushes out McStay and Merrett, Close and Martin are our big forwards.
 

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Really, if you look towards next year ideally Leppa wants 2 rucks. This means you play 2 of Martin/Bergs/West, rotating ruck and FF. Close plays CHF as our true forward and I think you go a 3rd tall with McGuane. The FF/ruck is there simply to be a big target and brinf the ball to ground. They wont be expected to be a great KPF. If you get 1 goal a game youd take it. Try get 2 each from close and McGuane, the rest come from mids/mossies
 
In your opinion. Bergs has shown glimpses up forward, but he has never been played there long enough to get a good guage. He isnt a big contested marker, but his height would worry any defender, and his work at ground level is pretty good too.

Fit and firing Bergs can dominate the ruck, although that often doesnt happen long enough. Perhaps because we are often left with 1 ruck doing about 85% of the ruck work and they get burned out. Having 2 rucks at the same time might help keep them all on the park longer.
 
SizeMatters said:
No. Martin as primary ruck and West as the forward/ruck. Both are better at what they do than Leuey.
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It is funny how quickly people forget just how good Leunberger can be. Stef Martin was a spud a few months ago if I remember correctly.
 
The thing we don't know about Martin, is how he'll go with extended periods up forward.
He was pretty average a couple of years ago. Having said that, there was talk of him giving less than his all at training.
He obviously had an attitude adjustment and has come out firing this year, but how will that affect his form as a forward?
At Melbourne, his best work was as first ruck and this year has been his first opportunity to be that in Lions colours. I would hope this stint has given him a real boost in confidence and belief that can be translated to a role up forward.
I always thought Mitch Clark was good in the ruck and around the ground, while being...well...rubbish as a forward. I hope Stef isn't the same, or if he is, we can use him effectively outside the forwardline. I'm just not sure how many strings he has to his bow.
 
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Melbourne fans said he was excellent as the first ruck, and poor up forward which is what we have also experienced. They also said his next best position was CHB. Martin is playing an almost identical role as Clarke had played when he was in the AA squad which he would play a defensive role and float back and block space in our defensive 50 and take intercept marks.

The thing with Martin is that he is very good in close even compared to midfielders with his clean hands, decision making, clearances and overall size allowing him to put blocks on. Could it be possible he can play bursts in the guts then float around the defensive 50m arc? Probably won't happen but I think it could work and will allow West to play up forward and Berger to play in the ruck.
 
Perhaps it is me, but I don't recall Leuenberger ever being as dominant as what Martin has been since his return, which to be honest, has taken me by complete surprise, having not really rated him. If Leuenberger is fit and ready to return, I'm of the view that Martin plays the same role he has been playing these past 7 games. Why change it? I'd be happy to trial Leuenberger up forward, which then forces Merrett out of the side, but Martin has to be kept as the number one ruck. Martin is the form ruckman of the competition, why mess with that? And until Leuenberger replicates the form Martin is in, he plays second fiddle.
 
Big question, would anybody trade Leuenberger (26) for Dayne Beams (24)?

Collingwood clearly need a ruckman and with Martin/West/Smith we're well stocked for now.

Not that I think Collingwood would accept anyway.
 

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Martin is much bigger than he was last year when he was playing forward. TBH I would like to see him playing down at FF again swapping with Bergs in the ruck. Time spent resting forward should keep him going at 100% when in the ruck. And having someone like Bergs coming in as 2nd fiddle means we dont lose anything. Martins ability at ground level and contests, as well as in ruck up forward could produce goals.
 
BeamStar17 said:
Big question, would anybody trade Leuenberger (26) for Dayne Beams (24)?

Collingwood clearly need a ruckman and with Martin/West/Smith we're well stocked for now.

Not that I think Collingwood would accept anyway.
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If that was to happen, Collingwood would make the offer, and they would only do that if they knew Beams was gone. Normally they would just try lure him with money via FA.
 
A rangy tap-ruckman and a more mobile beast.....sounds like a return of some of our big man glory days :)

Both!! Yay for both!!
 
Bucking Beads said:
It is funny how quickly people forget just how good Leunberger can be. Stef Martin was a spud a few months ago if I remember correctly.
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That would be when he'd played only as a kpp for us (often barely with any ruck time)

Martin is a dud as a kpf completely clueless in how/where to run. Semi respectable kpd but when he has time to think in possession he often *s it up - better in midfield where instinct takes over and he sees a target and just gives the handpass.

His only good stretches of games in his career have been as first ruck at Melbourne and with us,

Unfortunately our tall forward stocks are so depleted that his competition is Merritt to be the big pack breaking kpf. Even I'd have him ahead of Merritt up forward.

Having said that I'd start Round 1 2015 (having watched Martin dominate for 7 straight games in the ruck) with Martin in ruck with say 80/20 split and Leuenberger forward with 20/80 split. Hopefully leuie learns on the job as a forward where he has shown glimpses on the lead IMO.

Merritt can fight Maguire for kpd post in pre season (I prefer Merritt). Close as kpf and whoever of Paine, mcguane, staker is fit and in form as third (obviously potential for recruiting to change that)
 
It won't really be an issue until next year TBH. Leuey only played half a game on the weekend and will probably play a few more reserves games to get his fitness back. Even then, when he comes back into the team he's not going to be up to doing a majority of the ruck work which means he'll most likely play up forward for a fair bit, probably in about a 70/30 ratio. The last few games will most likely be used to test this sort of setup and see how it works with an eye on next season. Over pre-season it will be refined I would imagine and pending injury we'll see the preferred option come round 1 next year.

All of this relies on the premise that they both stay fit, which given history, is a massive question mark. If it happens it will be absolutely sensational dilemma to have
 
It would be hard to begrudge Martin for leaving at the end of the season, considering it was reported about 2 weeks ago the club was thinking of delisting him. However his rich vein of form just has to be ridden out and leuey hasn't had the strongest past 24 months, so there ia definitely space for both of them.

Personally I also see lueuy as a better forward then West, so what might also be interesting is how this shapes our drafting position. With a number of falls who are going to have to fit into the forward line somewhere (Merritt, Leuenburger, West, Staker, McGuane) we could almost afford to pick up the best Midfielder, and give Hammelman (assuming he is drafted), Freeman etc another year to develop, then reassess at the end of next year the forward situation.
 
My opinion differs to most I think. IMO

1. Martin's tap work has not been that good. I don't think he's actually beaten any decent rucks this season.

Tap work: Leuey >> Martin >>>> West

2. Around the ground Martin has been good. Works hard to link up and his second effort in the contests have been good.

Around the ground: Martin >>> Leuey >>>>>>>>>>> West

3. Martin showed a bit up forward early last year. It took him a while to get going but it's a bit harsh to judge him as a forward based on the few games he played for us. I think he can play the same role Merrett currently is.

As a forward it's pretty even: Leuey >> West = Martin
 
jackess said:
My opinion differs to most I think. IMO

1. Martin's tap work has not been that good. I don't think he's actually beaten any decent rucks this season.

Tap work: Leuey >> Martin >>>> West

2. Around the ground Martin has been good. Works hard to link up and his second effort in the contests have been good.

Around the ground: Martin >>> Leuey >>>>>>>>>>> West

3. Martin showed a bit up forward early last year. It took him a while to get going but it's a bit harsh to judge him as a forward based on the few games he played for us. I think he can play the same role Merrett currently is.

As a forward it's pretty even: Leuey >> West = Martin
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I reckon Martin's tap work has been excellent - clearly better at hitting the ball to advantage than Leuey, Leuey better at banging it forward, but not taps to advantage. He destroyed the incumbent All Australian Ruckman at Etihad by simply ensuring that our mids got the ball on a platter.

As a Forward, from what I have witnessed Martin runs third behind West who is a standout and can actually hit the scoreboard , then daylight to Leuey and Martin who I can live with resting there but not playing predominantly as a forward.

It's an interesting conundrum.
 
Stef was just named Robbo's Monday hero....
 
jackess said:
My opinion differs to most I think. IMO

1. Martin's tap work has not been that good. I don't think he's actually beaten any decent rucks this season.

Tap work: Leuey >> Martin >>>> West

2. Around the ground Martin has been good. Works hard to link up and his second effort in the contests have been good.

Around the ground: Martin >>> Leuey >>>>>>>>>>> West

3. Martin showed a bit up forward early last year. It took him a while to get going but it's a bit harsh to judge him as a forward based on the few games he played for us. I think he can play the same role Merrett currently is.

As a forward it's pretty even: Leuey >> West = Martin
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Stef palms the pill straight down the throat of his rovers ala Polly Farmer, Leuey punches it indiscriminately to the ground.
 
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