Matchday 26

[Benno_900]

I do, but everyone's going on as if winning the FA Cup means that much, but in reality they almost lost to a pretty weak PL side.

Since when was the FA Cup about one game?

We beat Tottenham, Liverpool and Everton en route to the final.

 

[PendlePie]

Quite frankly, Arsenal should be doing better. 3rd/4th place is just not good enough. It’s not like they’re lacking the money or fans to compete either. Wegner looks to be living off the Invincibles season and the fact that he can boldy claim that he hasn’t finished below 4th for every year but his first (which was 5th anyway). That’s excellent consistency, yes, but it’s not like they are a 2nd tier side like an Everton or a Tottenham. They have the resources, and far too often they have underachieved. United were able to achieve, even Liverpool have excelled on Europe’s biggest stage (though are domestic underachievers). In fact, ever since Chelsea got their first title, Arsenal have just been there... a top team that's up there, but just... there.

I have seen more than my fair share of disappointed Arsenal fans. Yes, they're happy they won the FA Cup, but at the same time, they want more than that. Yes, you won three titles with Wegner, but you haven't looked like coming close since then, despite the fact you have the resources for the job. Yes, there is acknowledgment of the new stadium, that can't be ignored. But at the same time, that Arsenal team could've easily done a better job. If Sir Alex or Jose were in charge, I would suspect they would nab a title or two in those years. The team in the years after the Invinsibles look good enough, but now...? It feels a bit 'meh.' Look at Atletico Madrid last year, I would say they're similar enough, and yet they did the 'unthinkable' and won La Liga.


It made me think of that Van Persie quote, something about him wanting to win trophies, maybe that is why he went up north in the first place. Now that the stadium has been paid off, and Arsenal is in a healthy state of finances, I guess the question that has to be asked is if Arsenal are too rooted to their culture? Similar to Liverpool these days. They just seem to lack that killer instinct that used to make them so feared. It's such a shame for both Arsenal, (and Liverpool domestically), they are capable of more, but just lack that bite.

Great post, but as per my post above I think it's important to differentiate between the time we were paying off the stadium and the time we weren't. From last season onwards there are no excuses IMO and we should now be aiming for top 2 every year. I agree completely with the culture thing, this Arsenal team has been like the many before it in that we don't punish sides and intimidate, but I hope that comes with time now.

 

[SM]

Since when was the FA Cup about one game?

We beat Tottenham, Liverpool and Everton en route to the final.

So if they'd lost to Hull, Arsenal fans would still be singing Wenger's praises for beating those sides en route to the final?

No. They'd be talking about their inability to win.

 

[Cruyff14]

I can get around this point. Most Arsenal supporters should agree that the lack of sufficient player purchases around that 05-12 period is what allowed the club to fund the stadium without getting into huge debt. The fact we consistently finished top 4 is no mean feat - especially considering today's environment where Chelsea and the two Manchester clubs seem to have bottomless pits of funds. The future of the football club is absolutely secure, we have the best and most profitable stadium in English football, and it seems Wenger's now shifted his focus solely to the football side of things.

For mine, the next 2-3 years will be defining. No stadium excuses now and a deep squad containing some very expensive acquisitions. Failure to win a title (or come painstakingly close) between now and 2018 deserves criticism IMO. But up until now, it's hard to begrudge a man who has ensured the club is and will remain extremely profitable, debt free and a top top club in the English game.



United are hundreds of millions of pounds in debt. We are not. That's the difference. Fair play to them but I'm glad our club isn't in the situation theirs is.

They won't go broke, and they were also successful in the period where we did absolutely nothing.

 

[Benno_900]

So if they'd lost to Hull, Arsenal fans would still be singing Wenger's praises for beating those sides en route to the final?

No. They'd be talking about their inability to win.

In that case, I suppose a team that wins the CL final against a team like Basel doesn't count either.

 

[moomba]

A cup is a cup. Any manager that wins one deserves credit for it.

As one of the top 4 clubs in the league over the past decade, one domestic cup isnt a great record though, so I can see why people arent getting too carried away with it.

Wigan, Portsmouth, Liverpool, Swansea, Birmingham and Spurs have all won a cup in the last decade.

 

[pieman123]

Agreed, and yet their debt keeps increasing each year. The way United is run isn't sustainable in the long-term. United have spent more on transfers than any other club over the past decade, and that trend is unlikely to stop anytime soon.

Yeh nah were good.

 

[Cruyff14]

Yeh nah were good.

Empty statement, really. You're not so good now despite your position on the table.

 

[chef]

Yeh nah were good.

You don't think you'll keep spending in the summer?

 

[moomba]

United spending isnt sustainable but I doubt they are looking to spend like that any year.

You've got to remember spending big to build a squad capable of getting back in the champions league is going to be worth £60m a year to United.

Our spending in the first five years of the takeover probably guaranteed us a decade of champions league money.

 

[pieman123]

If we get CL i could see us spend a similar amount to this year, our debt is easily managable and should be slowly falling in the near future.

 

[PendlePie]

United spending isnt sustainable but I doubt they are looking to spend like that any year.

You've got to remember spending big to build a squad capable of getting back in the champions league is going to be worth £60m a year to United.

Our spending in the first five years of the takeover probably guaranteed us a decade of champions league money.

United's debt is at £380.5 million and rising. And I understand how it is partially offset by UCL qualification money, but who's to say United doesn't miss qualifying for the next 2-3 years? They're 50/50 at best to qualify this season and without a doubt will spend upwards of £60 million in summer and beyond.

Obviously it's an unknown. But personally I'm glad my club is under no financial stress and can conceivably spend as much as they need to* in any given window without worrying about the consequences.

*Wenger spending ehehe

 

[Cruyff14]

United won't ever go bankrupt.

 

[PendlePie]

United won't ever go bankrupt.

We would (most likely) if we did what they did. That's the point.

 

[moomba]

United's debt is at £380.5 million and rising. And I understand how it is partially offset by UCL qualification money, but who's to say United doesn't miss qualifying for the next 2-3 years? They're 50/50 at best to qualify this season and without a doubt will spend upwards of £60 million in summer and beyond.

Obviously it's an unknown. But personally I'm glad my club is under no financial stress and can conceivably spend as much as they need to* in any given window without worrying about the consequences.

*Wenger spending ehehe

Spend £150m a season and you don't miss too many champions leagues.

I think their spending has been poor this last summer and they may or may not make. But another spree and it would be inconceivable that they don't.

The debt has been as high as £700m iirc so either way I don't think they are in any risk. And I don't think intention is to spend big year in, year out.

 

[moomba]

FWIW I don't think the United style spending spree has been or is the right thing for Arsenal. They just didnt need to rebuild a squad, just spend a bit here and there in the right areas to improve it.

 

[moomba]

Watched the Dyche piece last night, was a good interview and he was clearly a bit peeved by some of Mourinho's comments.

Liked the highlighting of Chelsea not returning the ball to Burnley after they put it out so Mee could get treated. Hope they don't ever get pissed off if someone does the same to them.

Also liked the highlighting of Costas kick on Shackell, you'd think he might learn his lesson but obviously not.

 

[Hawkforce]

United are hundreds of millions of pounds in debt. We are not. That's the difference. Fair play to them but I'm glad our club isn't in the situation theirs is.

Exactly.

Wenger's built a stadium and revenue stream that can see Arsenal directly competing with the likes of Chelsea and Many City financially - especially under FFP which, as Moomba has often rightly pointed out, is more about ensuring the hegemony of the established "big money clubs" rather than letting anyone new join the club.

I would love for Arsenal to give Wenger the flick. Absolutely love it. It would be an absolute catastrophe

 

[jod23]

United won't ever go bankrupt.

Who knows. We were days from Administration at one point. You're never too big. If you are mismanaged at the top it can all go wrong very quickly. Thank god for FSG.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

we're a massive club

 

[Magma]

maaasssiivvveee

 

[SloaneysDanger]

we're a massive club

You guys obviously lift, bro.

 

[moomba]

Look at it from Uniteds point of view. Spend £150m a season for three seasons and you should be able to set yourself with a squad capable of competing for everything for a decade at least.

It'll cost them but the £450m will be spread out over maybe 7 or 8 years.

If everyone goes on a 5 year contract Y1 is a £30m loss, Y2 is £60m, Y3-5 is £90m, Y6 is £60m, Y7 is £30m and then you are done.

Considering champions league money is worth £60m a year from next season (and will no doubt grow in three years time) and the new TV deal is worth probably an extra £50m+ to teams at the top they're not really taking much of a risk.

If they can't build a squad capable of consistently finishing top 4 with £450m then they'll probably go bankrupt anyway as they are run by morons.

You also have to look at the probability of pretty large penalty clauses in their commercial deals if they don't get back into the champions league.

 

[Gak Attack]

United should never go bankrupt because of their brand power, however as we saw at Liverpool and elsewhere that if you get moronic owners anything can happen, I'm still not 100% sure how we shafted the other yanks wasn't slightly shady but the fact we had idiots that would rather see us in administration over just selling when there was a few buyers at the ready shows it could possibly happen.

On their squad at some stage you have to stop throwing money at the problem and just back lads in or you end up with a bunch of players but not a team. It's shown with Spurs and even us when you look at our better form recently it has been on the back of picking sides that are mainly made up of players that were there last season. City is probably the blueprint for setting yourself up even though clubs probably can't throw the cash they did at it anymore. Also slightly off topic as I'm not up on all things United youth but I think the bigger teams in England need to throw some of their youngsters in a bit more instead of bringing in foreigners for stupid money who may end up being no better and will take more time to adjust. It's certainly been the case at our club.

 

[moomba]

I guess thats why Chelsea carry on so much. Matic suspension reduced to 2 matches.

Chelsea appalled with the decision according to their own website.

When you think you've seen it all, the FA just comes in and shows that there is a lot more stupid left to give.