Aboriginal & TSI Mathew Stokes' letter to Tony Abbott

[Herne Hill Hammer]

LOL at the people who think a huge amount of these people have the skills, means or desire to "simply" relocate. All you'd be doing is making an even more disadvantaged group of people. It would be even more of a national disgrace.

Let's forget that for a second and look at it practically. So we get an influx of thousands into towns like Fitzroy Crossing and Halls Creek. Where are all these jobs and advantages going to come from? These towns struggle with these issues already. So where do they go? Perth? How do they get there and get housing? Where do they live, Midvale? That's about as much struggle as it gets in the city.

The logistics of the proposed plans even if everyone is on board is an absolute nightmare. Does anyone actually think about this?

At least services could be consolidated and concentrated then.

The Government has been doing it for years in Victoria, I'm not sure about other states. Cutting services in small country towns, trying to get people to move to larger regional centres.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Have they been done for cocaine and are they writing an open letter to the PM?

Nice try though

Isn't it nice to see them playing at Hawthorn and adding their voice. Thirty years ago they wouldn't have even been on Hawthorn's list!

It's good to see the club changed their thinking.

 

[JUBJUB]

Stokes a chance for Australian of the year now?

Well his Knighthood chances have gone while Mr Big Ears is top dog

 

[bigfarter]

I would have thought that was a crack at the AOTY process rather than Stokes.

Possibly, but the people who openly loathe and disagree with Adam Goodes don't seem to spend much time posting about the silliness of the award, opting instead to attack the man for having opinions. If I misinterpreted Beeg's post, so be it, but this board has conditioned me to think the worst when it comes to people posting in regards to outspoken players.

 

[clogged]

It's us taxpayers that have to fund them and that is not fair. Unfortunately leftists will always find a way to argue that it's no big deal and it's racist to close these down. (Everything is racist to a leftist when they disagree with it)
What we need is to cut funding to them, they can voluntarily still live there but they should pay for it themselves. How is it fair that my tax dollars goes to these communities?

I would go into further details of deregulation etc but that is for later.

As if a young liberal university student pays any taxes.

 

[BEEG]

Possibly, but the people who openly loathe and disagree with Adam Goodes don't seem to spend much time posting about the silliness of the award, opting instead to attack the man for having opinions. If I misinterpreted Beeg's post, so be it, but this board has conditioned me to think the worst when it comes to people posting in regards to outspoken players.

Your apology has been accepted people can also have a laugh on BigFooty it doesn't need to always be heated s**t fights

 

[vWestCoast]

I like the way many city folks who have never been bush or know an aboriginal person have so much to say on the issue... It is hilarious.

The government has for years been pumping millions and millions of dollars into remote communities. Go to some of these communities and you tell me if the aboriginal bureaucracy is spending the money on the correct things or where the money is going at all? It is obviously not working in many places. The govt is not wanting to close down all of them just the ones that are leading to more destruction than good.... how is that bad? Why should my tax dollars go to someone who does not want to work, not take responsibility to send their kids to school, not look after the millions of dollars off assets given to them as in power generation, houses, land cruisers, fixed community facilities.... if anyone has been to these places (and I have been to many) it is a disgrace. There are some fantastic communities that will continue to get support and now will GET MORE support as we can concentrate money and resources to areas that are providing good results in closing the gap. Places I have been to and spent time at that are wonderful for example Mount Margaret in WA, Ngukkur in the NT (awsum fishing and people) are not being closed down. But many of the places around the Kimberley that have huge grog problems need to be consolidated. WA govt tried to set up some grog management in law but it got closed down many due to ignorant city folk saying its racist to ban selling alcohol (Link)

Have a look at how many separate communities there are in the Kimberley alone? (Link to map)
Surely we can consolidate these. Why should someone who chooses to live their life away from where the current services and schools are expect to get al these services duplicated for only a few people. If we had that n the city we would have a primary school in every block and 20,000 hospitals. And to have this we would all pay 98% tax FFS

Closing communities doesn't mean aboriginal people can not choose to go live there, they will just have to pay for services them selves just like all other people in Australia have to if we decide to live in a remote area.

And the funniest thing is that many Western Australian ABORIGINAL LEADERS support the move, Ian Trust is one for example (Link). So you city folk should stay out of arguing something you know nothing about... This is not aimed at Stokes, who by the way grew up in Darwin and not in a community, but at clowns on here arguing based on political correctness rather than what is best for people.

So much this. Someone makes one comment against them and they're straight away called racist.

Of course there are plenty of community's doing great things and full of great people but the majority I have seen could not be any further. They get given houses, cars everything and they're trashed within a week. Reward the community's doing good but no way should we be paying for and rewarding anyone who doesn't appreciate what they get and choose to live life that way

 

[kranky al]

So much this. Someone makes one comment against them and they're straight away called racist.

Of course there are plenty of community's doing great things and full of great people but the majority I have seen could not be any further. They get given houses, cars everything and they're trashed within a week. Reward the community's doing good but no way should we be paying for and rewarding anyone who doesn't appreciate what they get and choose to live life that way

its all well and good to say close the communities - i think somewhere in your ranting tirade against being called racist (which by the way i havnt seen anyone do yet) you have missed the point


what are you going to do with the people who move from these communities


theres no plan for that - just close the communities and replace it with..................



let me tell you what the with is - notice i still havnt said anything about racism - im more suggesting myopic pig headedness where you only look at what you want to stop and not the flow on effects



we have an avalanche of crime in the city i live in - there are families moving from these locations to stay with relatives and every night is like a war zone here - this along with the fact that they are locking them up at an astonishing rate and clogging the courts etc is causing way more expense to the taxpayer than the communities ever will


find a solution for this before there any more closures.

 

[Underdog]

So much this. Someone makes one comment against them and they're straight away called racist.

Of course there are plenty of community's doing great things and full of great people but the majority I have seen could not be any further. They get given houses, cars everything and they're trashed within a week. Reward the community's doing good but no way should we be paying for and rewarding anyone who doesn't appreciate what they get and choose to live life that way

Are you able to provide further information on these funding models that offer them "everything"?

 

[Doss]

Good on Stokes.

How anyone could decry him writing that is beyond me.

 

[deflated]

I don’t think Mr Abbott was deliberately being racist, but one comment from someone in such a powerful position can cause so much damage.

Ignore the source, this is absolutely on target; Abbott regularly harms any public debate with these thoughtless outbursts. Living outside Australia these soundbites are all the world hears of our PM and his policies, the impression these quotes create in other countries is embarrassing at best. What actual steps are taken to solve a problem are lost in the noise when someone thinks we're another bunch of racist arseholes.

 

[Underdog]

I don't think you can sook when you get such feedback when you're playing the man and not the ball.

The fact that Stokes may be a dickhead is irrelevant to the subject.

 

[Doss]

Stokes' misdemeanours years ago are absolutely irrelevant to the point he is making.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Isn't it nice to see them playing at Hawthorn and adding their voice. Thirty years ago they wouldn't have even been on Hawthorn's list!

It's good to see the club changed their thinking.

This is a good point about assimilation rather than segregation
No hawthorn fan will alude to us always being an inclusive club, but when you think about it, the club almost mirrors australia as a whole

Surely the next step is to slowly remove funding from remote townships, and assimilate them into larger ones
That would mean building better access roads etc, similar to what is seen in western victoria
By all means, stay in these sucluded areas, but if you want access to certain things, you need to travel for it
This really is the best way to help reconciliation (not just between political groups)

At least services could be consolidated and concentrated then.

The Government has been doing it for years in Victoria, I'm not sure about other states. Cutting services in small country towns, trying to get people to move to larger regional centres.

I spent a lot of time in Warrnambool as a child
It's true what you say, and should be modelled as such elsewhere

It's taken a good 30-40 yrs there, for both groups to fully accept each other, and honestly, the longer it remains divided in other states, the longer it is going to take for each group to accept the other

 

[Underdog]

Ignore the source, this is absolutely on target; Abbott regularly harms any public debate with these thoughtless outbursts. Living outside Australia these soundbites are all the world hears of our PM and his policies, the impression these quotes create in other countries is embarrassing at best. What actual steps are taken to solve a problem are lost in the noise when someone thinks we're another bunch of racist arseholes.

I just can't understand how he keeps doing it. The comments are just so thoughtless and avoidable. This just builds on the Indonesian aid lunacy.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

the point is that if you live in an area where there is no chance of finding work or you make absolutely no effort to find work then why should the Govt and more importantly the taxpayer fund your lifestyle choice.

It's not a lifestyle choice that's the point. Being born somewhere isn't a "lifestyle choice" and any attempts to paint it as such are completely ignorant and utterly racist.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Nah it's that scary looking chick Peta,isn't it ?

I'm pretty sure I read he writes his own speeches despite his colleagues attempts to have him get someone to do it for him.

 

[Spook]

its all well and good to say close the communities - i think somewhere in your ranting tirade against being called racist (which by the way i havnt seen anyone do yet) you have missed the point

He has seen the communities, don't try and compare Gerro with the communities, they are a different story.

what are you going to do with the people who move from these communities

Move to the towns and other communities where they spend most their time anyway (as you say below)

theres no plan for that - just close the communities and replace it with..................

What? there is a plan, stop making up s**t. Its just that the political correct city dwellers choose not to acknowledge this. We are not talking tens of thousands of people. Most communities have a permanent population in the 10s and were only set up for monetary claims.

we have an avalanche of crime in the city i live in - there are families moving from these locations to stay with relatives and every night is like a war zone here - this along with the fact that they are locking them up at an astonishing rate and clogging the courts etc is causing way more expense to the taxpayer than the communities ever will

So what leave them out in the bush away from you? Not a problem then hey? Imagine how much more money we would have to spend in Gerro on fixing these problems if we didn't spend so much on a community for 17 people over and over again. I grew up near Northam which has similar problems to Gerro and yes there are problems. But the aboriginal communities need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming the system or where they ;ive or how they live or the government or what happened 250 years ago. The good fellas do take responsibility and there are many of them. We just need decisions to be made by state and local government and local people not city dwellers from Canberra, Sydney & Melbourne.

find a solution for this before there any more closures.

What is your solution, leave the problems remote where the issues cost additional millions and millions of dollars and are very hard to control and correct due to the remoteness?

 

[Southcoast hawk]

It's not a lifestyle choice that's the point. Being born somewhere isn't a "lifestyle choice" and any attempts to paint it as such are completely ignorant and utterly racist.

Exactly, some posters have already alluded to this but in those remote communities the indigenous population have had thousands upon thousands of years of connection with the land. You say they need to go and get jobs? What people don't understand is that they do have a job, their job is to be custodians of the land and to care for it, just because it's not a job or career the western world has conditioned people into thinking is the only definition of a job (ie, something that generates revenue) doesn't make it any less important or credible. People forget that these communities and the entire indigenous population of this country thrived for tens of thousands of years and we've reduced them to living in these conditions in 200.
Now, whether tax payers money should be used to aid these communities is another question entirely, but closing the communities isn't going to get them off the dole, it's only going to move them into other suburban areas where crime and a whole heap of other issues become prevalent, oh, and they will cost the tax payer too.

There isn't a simple solution to this problem. Closing them is not the answer, nor is continuing to fund them.

On another note, super big mad props to Stokes. It takes courage to publicly release an open letter about an issue regarding your people and an issue that many find sensitive. How anyone can give him stick for that is beyond me.

 

[ApplecrossWC]

So much this. Someone makes one comment against them and they're straight away called racist.

Of course there are plenty of community's doing great things and full of great people but the majority I have seen could not be any further. They get given houses, cars everything and they're trashed within a week. Reward the community's doing good but no way should we be paying for and rewarding anyone who doesn't appreciate what they get and choose to live life that way

A racist from Western Australia? I'm shocked

 

[kranky al]

He has seen the communities, don't try and compare Gerro with the communities, they are a different story.

Move to the towns and other communities where they spend most their time anyway (as you say below)

What? there is a plan, stop making up s**t. Its just that the political correct city dwellers choose not to acknowledge this. We are not talking tens of thousands of people. Most communities have a permanent population in the 10s and were only set up for monetary claims.

So what leave them out in the bush away from you? Not a problem then hey? Imagine how much more money we would have to spend in Gerro on fixing these problems if we didn't spend so much on a community for 17 people over and over again. I grew up near Northam which has similar problems to Gerro and yes there are problems. But the aboriginal communities need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming the system or where they ;ive or how they live or the government or what happened 250 years ago. The good fellas do take responsibility and there are many of them. We just need decisions to be made by state and local government and local people not city dwellers from Canberra, Sydney & Melbourne.

What is your solution, leave the problems remote where the issues cost additional millions and millions of dollars and are very hard to control and correct due to the remoteness?

ive lived and worked in various aboriginal communities from pennefather river in far north queensland to yalata in south australia to various spots in north western australia


most of you lot - you read news.com.au


im not saying there isnt problems in the communities - there is - in some communities horrendous problems


but there has been no plan - aside from close them down


all that has done is move the problem to the cities - and an exponential increase in crime assault and incarceration.


which as i have mentioned several times but noone seems to want to acknowledge - costs more than the communities ever will at 100k per prisoner per year.




as a previous poster mentioned - many of these people cant just suit up and get a job as they dont have skills that are valuable to our society.


the government has put the whole thing in place without a plan to manage the consequences

the consequences are dire

 

[Spook]

ive lived and worked in various aboriginal communities from pennefather river in far north queensland to yalata in south australia to various spots in north western australia
most of you lot - you read news.com.au
im not saying there isnt problems in the communities - there is - in some communities horrendous problems
but there has been no plan - aside from close them down
all that has done is move the problem to the cities - and an exponential increase in crime assault and incarceration.
which as i have mentioned several times but noone seems to want to acknowledge - costs more than the communities ever will at 100k per prisoner per year.
as a previous poster mentioned - many of these people cant just suit up and get a job as they dont have skills that are valuable to our society.
the government has put the whole thing in place without a plan to manage the consequences
the consequences are dire

So whats your plan? Out of sight out of mind? I know Gero has problems and the horrible consequences (Bill Rowe for example). But we cant keep having different rules for different people. If they do the crime they do the time no matter who they are. Australia has been settled for 250 years FFS. We get immigrants from Sudan who live in mud huts who seem to fit in to Australian society easier... why? Because they are expected to. We just have to have the same rules for all. So why do you get money to live somewhere remote when all non indigenous Australians don't?

 

[SBYM]

Now the world don't move to the beat of just one drum,
What might be right for you, may not be right for some...
A man is born, he's a man of means,
Then along comes a Cat, with nothin' but his dreams...

It is Matty Stokes, it takes Matty Stokes, it takes Matty Stokes to move the world,
Yes it does...
It takes Matty Stokes to move the world...mmmmmmm

 

[kranky al]

So whats your plan? Out of sight out of mind? I know Gero has problems and the horrible consequences (Bill Rowe for example). But we cant keep having different rules for different people. If they do the crime they do the time no matter who they are. Australia has been settled for 250 years FFS. We get immigrants from Sudan who live in mud huts who seem to fit in to Australian society easier... why? Because they are expected to. We just have to have the same rules for all. So why do you get money to live somewhere remote when all non indigenous Australians don't?

i dont have the answer mate - because for starts there is no one fits all solution

if i had the answer id be a rich man - because as it stands we are pouring money down a hole with no real quantifiable result

but just closing communities down is making things worse not better




the best communities are where theres no grog - thats the starting point - empowerment of the elder women especially and men is the next thing


not expecting a civilisation of tens of thousands of years of culture that is so utterly alien to ours to assimilate into ours in a couple of hundred - especially given the pernicious effects of alcohol and other drugs.

 

[DerpWerls]

Closing down the remote communities is a terrible idea and shows how out of touch Abbott and the Liberal government is with indigenous Australia. Just a really bad idea for all parties and the only reason/incentive for wanting to close them is the enormous cost to the taxpayer of getting services and utilities to the communities.