News Matthew Egan launches legal action over the treatment of his foot injury

[goyoucatters]

That's certainly not how I remember it, heading into the 2008 pre-season. At the time Taylor was drafted, Egan had been out of the game for a couple of months. Menzel has been out of the game for three years and counting. It's been a while since I've read it, but I'm sure the second Mission book would go into detail about the drafting of Taylor and the reasoning behind it. Though, if he was asked now, I'm sure Wells would say that he would have drafted Taylor regardless...what is to be gained from saying otherwise?

It should also be remembered that Tom Lonergan was two and a half years off being a staple in the Geelong defence: he'd just kicked six goals in a BOG performance in the VFL grand final and spent 2008 in the forward line. If we're playing the 'what if?' game, I'd suggest that rather than Taylor not being drafted at all, the more likely scenario would have been Lonergan being at another club, or out of the AFL before he played 50 games. Egan would have been in his spot and Egan is less than a year older than Lonergan.

Don't dispute what you've written about the Domsy situation. Harry's drafting was not predicated on him playing alongside Tom in the back six in our next premiership team. That is abundantly clear.

And Wells may well say whatever he likes now about 'why him?' with respect to the selection of our latest #7 at the Cats.

What 'The Mission 2' (opening of chapter 21, pages 259-260) does say is that Wells was super-keen on both Taylor and Scott Selwood with our first-round pick. And the quote outlining his reasoning for the final decision goes like this…"In the end it came down to a more specific need. Tall defenders are a bit harder to find."

That last sentence might entirely support the viewpoint you're espousing. Or it might indicate that the uncertainty surrounding Egan's future was palpable. I, for one, believe that there must have been significant concern about whether he was going to make the 2008 season in any case, irrespective of his longer-term future. This could have led Wells to shore up a potential area of both short and medium term concern with a prospective 'ready-made' starter in a vital position on the field.

I'll concede that Wells continues to rewrite the book on drafting philosophy. So it's hard to 'pattern' his selection policy and model what you'd call a 'typical' Wells pick. But Harry is his only truly mature-age first round pick in my memory. I still think that's significant.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

It underscores how fragile our entire big man setup really is right now. We have two proper ruckmen, and three quasi-ruckmen on our entire list: McIntosh, Simpson, Blicavs, Vardy, Walker. Of those, McIntosh missed the best part of 3 straight seasons; to his credit, he's been able to perform pretty admirably for us this year. However he turns 30 on Thursday week. For all the criticism Brown cops for playing 13 games in 6 years, Simpson has played 24 games in 7, and is far from being over his troubles. Vardy has accumulated 21 games in 5 full seasons before next year rolls around. We better hope that Blicavs and Walker don't get injured anytime soon.

That doesn't even touch on another curious part of the ground - the backline. We've used the same three tall defenders more or less all season - Lonergan, Taylor and Rivers. Lonergan is 30; Rivers will be before next season. It's still staggering that they haven't tried to groom anyone in any of their three positions at any point this year. Even when they had the perfect opportunity with Melbourne, Bulldogs and GWS in successive weeks. It's going to be very interesting to see how quickly guys like Hamling come on, and equally how fast their perception will change around here if they don't.

I think it would definitely be worth trying to poach a raw, fifth choice ruckman from someone else to solidify our list in this area. I don't want a Ceglar/Lowden type, because if they're healthy, as well as McIntosh and Simpson, the position is just a mess. I'd be looking at a guy like Rory Lobb, Craig Moller, Archie Smith or Darcy Cameron from the WAFL: a guy who, if everyone is healthy is a clear step below the incumbents for now, but could potentially pinch hit in an emergency and might be better than they are now, in 3-4 years time.

The defenders positions are less concerning in a way, but also confusing in another. As far as I'm concerned, we have the cattle there: we just refuse to give them a go.

 

[Vdubs]

It's very easy to think that the club plans everything so wonderfully it's all part of a grand strategy; but sometimes happy accidents occur. We certainly didn't plan for Egan to never play again, as I've said I remember seeing him training in early 2008 (and Taylor would have been in those sessions). Scarlett played another 5 years so it would have been very interesting to see where everyone would have fit. But fortunately for us, Egan's failure to come back opened a door for Taylor, which in a year or two opened a door for Lonergan.

I recall the comments on a radio station by Wells or whoever was spokesperson for Geelong that day, after we got Harry, and he was described as a ready to play tall defender in view of the injury to Egan. I have always remembered that and assumed it was the reason they sought and bought him.

 

[Teriyakicat]

It makes you wonder doesn't it, when you think about Cowan, and Simpson, and even McCarthy, how fast they've pushed themselves to overcome their respective injuries.

You think they may have gone too fast?
I note that in at least one of Cowan's relapses it was clearly the club's fault for playing him much longer than had been agreed to by the fitness staff, who were stroppy about it.

I think the rapid turnaround of injuries in these young boys is the cause of some of the soft tissue injuries that they have. Nobody wants to sit out a whole year, so all stops are pulled out in order to get them back on the park within a particular time frame- then the short-term soft-tissue injuries just keep piling up and up and up until their season is gone.

 

[Vdubs]

I think the rapid turnaround of injuries in these young boys is the cause of some of the soft tissue injuries that they have. Nobody wants to sit out a whole year, so all stops are pulled out in order to get them back on the park within a particular time frame- then the short-term soft-tissue injuries just keep piling up and up and up until their season is gone.

AFL is really about survival of the fittest in many ways. Teams are now searching for the best managers of soft tissue injury prevention programmes, and I know factually NM sought Steve Saunders for that very reason, and his results ARE outstanding, and similarly,we now have Peter Stanton.

 

[Teriyakicat]

AFL is really about survival of the fittest in many ways. Teams are now searching for the best managers of soft tissue injury prevention programmes, and I know factually NM sought Steve Saunders for that very reason, and his results ARE outstanding, and similarly,we now have Peter Stanton.

So we should see an improvement then? Or have you already noticed an improvement- either in the reduction of the number of STIs or less time lost with STIs?

 

[Vdubs]

So we should see an improvement then? Or have you already noticed an improvement- either in the reduction of the number of STIs or less time lost with STIs?

Our improvement will be biased by the departure of Chappy anyway- he contributed to most of our STI's last few years.
Really, we have very few.
Who was our last hammy or calf or quad?
Joint injuries and bone stress injuries are different animals.

 

[Teriyakicat]

I had the same impression of Chappy- thought he'd missed a stack of games in previous years with hammies/quads etc- all stemming from a tight back, IIRC?- but, apart from last season, he didn't miss anywhere near as many games as I'd thought.

I can't remember the last STI- thought Cowan had one or two but his Achilles turns out to have been the culprit.

No doubt the club will be keeping tabs on the numbers of games lost through injury- apart from the severe LTIs and the early medium-term injuries or operations (Motlop, Christensen, Simpson), the boys have been in pretty darn good shape. I do think there has been an increase in back issues, though, which is a worry with these young men.

 

[dazbroncos]

When considering the treatment of injuries, you must also consider the flow of information as well. If a player trying to get back to make, say a GF, tells te medicos that the pain level is only 30% as opposed to say 60% in the hope of clearing the medical assessment, who is to and there?.
Is it the medical team for not fully diagnosing or the player for pushing thru.
And there has been a long list of players saying she'll be right mate to play in a game with the intent of only playing that game not looking at issues 6 years later.

Consider the young draft pick with a sore foot in preseason training running around. Gets X-rays and treatment but wasn't to push on and not miss time so he keeps going rather than pulling himself out and saying no this is not right. Keeps going and thus has a hot spot develop.

There is no black and white with this and I dare so no one will win except the legal teams.
Go Catters

 

[iameviljez]

what a load of crap. Essendon is brought up for a reason. he is suing geelong people and employees of the club
maybe he should have spoken with james in 2010 as well

Two things -
1) Probably not a good idea to go round calling people's reasoned observations a "load of crap", especially when there appears to be plenty of support for my view
2) Why on earth would somebody go through the pain of legal proceedings just for Essendon? Why would the fact that somebody worked/works for Geelong make them correct in their handling of a patient? Don't kid yourself that working for your favourite footy club means that someone will always do the right thing. Let the legal system decide whether there has been medical negligence, not the colour of your jumper.

 

[jacross]

Meh. If he's successful he's deserving of compensation. If they find against him then he's not.

I have no problem with testing claims in court. It's what they are there for.

 

[iameviljez]

I can't remember the last STI- thought Cowan had one or two but his Achilles turns out to have been the culprit.

If you wind up taking the club doctors to court for one of those, that really IS a contravention of the doctor-patient relationship code of practice

 

[Teriyakicat]

If you wind up taking the club doctors to court for one of those, that really IS a contravention of the doctor-patient relationship code of practice

Lol
*cough*
Soft Tissue Injury
Laziness, and abbreviating words due to laziness, can give people false impressions of you.
The moral of the story is: "don't be lazy"

 

[Teriyakicat]

Two things -
1) Probably not a good idea to go round calling people's reasoned observations a "load of crap", especially when there appears to be plenty of support for my view
2) Why on earth would somebody go through the pain of legal proceedings just for Essendon? Why would the fact that somebody worked/works for Geelong make them correct in their handling of a patient? Don't kid yourself that working for your favourite footy club means that someone will always do the right thing. Let the legal system decide whether there has been medical negligence, not the colour of your jumper.

Have I missed something?? How did Essendon get involved in this? Because Egan went there to coach?
Must've missed a page

 

[Vdubs]

When considering the treatment of injuries, you must also consider the flow of information as well. If a player trying to get back to make, say a GF, tells te medicos that the pain level is only 30% as opposed to say 60% in the hope of clearing the medical assessment, who is to and there?.
Is it the medical team for not fully diagnosing or the player for pushing thru.
And there has been a long list of players saying she'll be right mate to play in a game with the intent of only playing that game not looking at issues 6 years later.

Consider the young draft pick with a sore foot in preseason training running around. Gets X-rays and treatment but wasn't to push on and not miss time so he keeps going rather than pulling himself out and saying no this is not right. Keeps going and thus has a hot spot develop.

There is no black and white with this and I dare so no one will win except the legal teams.
Go Catters

There are clearly 3 sides to this scenario.
I am SURMISING here, with zero inside knowledge, so ..
1.Egan would have been absolutely distraught and desperate to play finals, GF. Who wouldn't. He would have pushed for any remote chance that there was to make some astounding recovery.

2.The club doc, who is highly experienced, and state of the art as far as club docs go, WOULD DEFINITELY have told him the standard and usual treatment for a navicular injury, I have absolutely no doubt, BUT as that would result in at least 12 weeks of watching, Egan would have asked for alternatives.

3.The surgeon would definitely have reiterated that surgery would have been a long shot, not the panacea, but that it was a possibility. The ramifications would have been discussed and written, all part of consent, and I am convinced, all parties would have been aware of all of this. This surgeon again is highly professional and sought after.

Speculation-
from some experience in this area, patients are in a state of mixture of various degrees of shock, disbelief, despair, anger and denial, and more than likely would have a blinkered view as to which way to go.
Would he remember what was said preoperatively over some desperate consults? Would he recall that 7 years later?
It APPEARS he is claiming he was NOT made aware of the ramifications/consequences of the screw fixation and early trial of running treatment, and that is where it is going to depend on the medical records of both practitioners.


We can not walk in Matty Egan's shoes- impossible- but as much as we felt his loss, imagine what he has felt and continues to feel.
Yet, from what we read as to what he is claiming?.......time will tell.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

As someone who was royally ****ed over by medical insurers when settling a claim from when I was in the Navy, hindsight taught me that you've got to go as hard as you can at them. I didn't and paid the price.

Bunch of pricks, so good on him I say.

In order for him to win, someone has got to be found to be liable, unfortunately for the Doctors, it's them.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Only a guess but I would suspect Stephen Wells and his contacts would have been searching for another ruckman for quite a while now. Even when we went for McIntosh a few years back, he would have had a list of names he has kept an eye on as they've grown from teenagers to young men. Can take years to narrow it down as every player develops at different stages, especially the lanky, tall blokes.

Perhaps they may need another year or more before pulling the trigger on one in the next draft, but I think we will be recruiting a fresh faced ruck for the future. Won't be one of those list battler's who have gone from one club to another etc.

It may depend on the long-term prognosis for Simpson after he has his back op.
It would be interesting to know what it was after each of the first 2 back ops.
One can only assume that it was relatively positive each time.

 

[Vdubs]

It may depend on the long-term prognosis for Simpson after he has his back op.
It would be interesting to know what it was after each of the first 2 back ops.
One can only assume that it was relatively positive each time.

Much as I really like and rate DS, how many players have survived 3 back ops?
I can't recall one, over the past 50 years.
Once fit and confident, he can be a weapon, but right now I think of him as a time bomb sadly.
My interest in this years finals campaign for us has definitely taken a battering with DS's news- was one player I really hoped would play AFL finals. I recall him walking around the group after all our GF wins, celebrating with his mates, and not part of it. He does stand out for obvious reasons.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

It may depend on the long-term prognosis for Simpson after he has his back op.
It would be interesting to know what it was after each of the first 2 back ops.
One can only assume that it was relatively positive each time.

I think there's several raw ruckmen in their early 20s who don't have an obvious avenue into the seniors at their current club, besides mass injuries, for the foreseeable future and might jump at the opportunity to a) possibly play a few senior games in 2015; and b) quite easily become Geelong's #1 ruckman in 2-3 years. I'm not interested in the Griffin/Lowden types; I'm interested in Craig Moller, Tom Downie, Liam McBean, Jack Osborn, Daniel Gorringe and maybe Ayce Cordy. I want a ruckman that is younger than Simpson (the younger, the better), is currently a clear step below Simpson and McIntosh, but is ready to play AFL football in an emergency and has the potential to be a very productive ruckman 2-3 years down the track.

 

[rocker_oz33]

McBean played forward abit could be handy.

 

[goyoucatters]

I think there's several raw ruckmen in their early 20s who don't have an obvious avenue into the seniors at their current club, besides mass injuries, for the foreseeable future and might jump at the opportunity to a) possibly play a few senior games in 2015; and b) quite easily become Geelong's #1 ruckman in 2-3 years. I'm not interested in the Griffin/Lowden types; I'm interested in Craig Moller, Tom Downie, Liam McBean, Jack Osborn, Daniel Gorringe and maybe Ayce Cordy. I want a ruckman that is younger than Simpson (the younger, the better), is currently a clear step below Simpson and McIntosh, but is ready to play AFL football in an emergency and has the potential to be a very productive ruckman 2-3 years down the track.

Given how well our ruck department is going on the durability front, you'd think one of these 'ready to play' options is a must to add for next season. Let's hope we pull the right string and get one whose body will stand up.

McBean's got through 29 games in the VFL over the past two seasons so he appears to be able to get up week after week for a start.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I think there's several raw ruckmen in their early 20s who don't have an obvious avenue into the seniors at their current club, besides mass injuries, for the foreseeable future and might jump at the opportunity to a) possibly play a few senior games in 2015; and b) quite easily become Geelong's #1 ruckman in 2-3 years. I'm not interested in the Griffin/Lowden types; I'm interested in Craig Moller, Tom Downie, Liam McBean, Jack Osborn, Daniel Gorringe and maybe Ayce Cordy. I want a ruckman that is younger than Simpson (the younger, the better), is currently a clear step below Simpson and McIntosh, but is ready to play AFL football in an emergency and has the potential to be a very productive ruckman 2-3 years down the track.

That would be the ideal set-up.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Archie Smith would be intriguing as well, but is possibly a bit too raw. Only had one year on Brisbane's rookie list and presumably wouldn't be ready to offer anything at senior level until 2016, at the earliest. Ideally, we need someone who can play next year (in case of injuries). And I want a potential first ruckman, not a forward that can play ruck, which would be my query with the likes of McBean and Cordy.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Archie Smith would be intriguing as well, but is possibly a bit too raw. Only had one year on Brisbane's rookie list and presumably wouldn't be ready to offer anything at senior level until 2016, at the earliest. Ideally, we need someone who can play next year. And I want a potential first ruckman, not a forward that can play ruck, which would be my query with the likes of McBean and Cordy.

These ruck types can change otto was forward ruck and became a great number one big guy.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

These ruck types can change otto was forward ruck and became a great number one big guy.

He started at Richmond as more of a ruckman, became a star key forward, came to Geelong as our big hope in that position and then went back to rucking. And Ottens' trajectory partly illustrates why I want a ruckman, first and foremost and if he has the ability to go forward, all well and good. But the reasons are:

1. We need a first ruck much more than a back-up that plays elsewhere (Blicavs looks like he has that position for as long as he's required there).

2. The ruckmen who are as good playing forward, or are even more pure forwards at the time they are recruited (like Ottens), are more likely to have grown up playing football (rather than your typical basketball convert that is still learning the game) and are also probably won't come cheap. Even a guy like McBean, who hasn't debuted, would be coveted by a few clubs and would probably get some pretty lucrative offers to leave Punt Road. That's why I'd be more interested in getting the next Zac Clarke type, who would be cheap as chips (and therefore low risk), but could pay off big time. Gold Coast has a three-headed monster at the ruck position with Smith, Nicholls and Gorringe. There's no way all of them can play, but Nicholls and Smith are known quantities, would come at a high price tag and would only come down here if they were the #1 ruckman from the moment they arrived (I think both are contracted to next year anyway).