Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[Leon]

Been a fair bit of talk on this board recently about McCartney going both for and against him recently which is only natural for a team struggling like ours is.

For mine I am in favour of him getting more time, until next year at least, for him to prove he can take us back up to the top 8 and further.

But regardless if where you stand on McCartney, questions about him and his future are going to be asked eventually depending on several factors:

Results

A coach can be rated as the best mentor or developer of young players as much as they like but at the end of the day coaches are ultimately judged on their win/loss record. McCartney's currently stands at 6 wins from 26 games. Not a good record in anyone's estimation.

We've had several thrashings during McCartney's reign so far. Again you can argue as much as you want about how much of that is due to McCartney or the players he has at his disposal but again, a coach lives and dies by his win/loss record.

Whilst everyone pretty much accepts that we are rebuilding, people will only accept rebuilding as long as they see signs of a brighter future. In Rounds 1-2 this year we saw some, the past two rounds have been very poor. Some people have already made up their minds against McCartney - if we continue to cop more thrashings, more supporters will turn against him.

We have two very tough games coming up against Geelong and West Coast away. Whilst we aren't expected to win either of them, McCartney has got to ensure that the players effort improves dramatically from the past two weeks.


Player Development & The Club

McCartney was highly rated as a great developer and teacher of young players when we appointed him.

So far, is there much we can point to in his favour in this regard, or does he need more time? Again, I fall into the latter category but supporters will only endure rebuilding if they can see some light at the end of the tunnel in terms of the future.

Roughead to FB has been an excellent move. Libba is easily one of the competition's best young midfielders and Mitch Wallis improved out of sight last year. Dahlhaus continues to stand out as our best youngster, whilst Jones played his best game for the club against Richmond.

But what is the club's expectation of what he can get out of these players during a year in which we are likely again to be down the bottom? When are we entitled to drop the "We're rebuilding" line and expect a rise up the ladder? Are further thrashings going to be tolerated as long as there are promising signs from the youg players?

As for the club, they have continually stated that they see McCartney as long term coach. They probably do, but everyone who understands footy club politics knows this is a meaningless statement.

I recall we sacked Peter Rohde only about two weeks after Smorgon had come out in the media giving him "Our fullest support and he will be coaching in 2005". If results continue to be bad, McCartney will come under scrutiny from supporters, the club and from the media.

Which leads me to the final issue: the media.

Media

So far I think McCartney has had a very easy ride from the media.

This isn't a slight on him per se: the media doesn't rate us or expect us to be any good and knows in general that we are rebuilding, and other clubs such as Melbourne and Port (until this year) who have been down for a long time and are still underperforming are always going to come under more scrutiny than clubs like us who have just begun a rebuild. There will also be the clubs that have been touted as potential finalists like North, Brisbane and to a lesser extenet Carlton (Malthouse already has the runs on the board) whose coaches will face scrutiny before us if their results don't improve.

Again though, this won't last for us if results continue to be bad. The media eventually apply the blowtorch to all clubs who aren't performing well and the "We're rebuilding" mantra will be thrown out the door after a while.

Will the club stand firm in their belief in McCartney? If the media turns against him it's likely more supporters will. Many clubs have succumbed to this pressure with regards to their coaches before, including our own with Rohde - justifiably, I might add.



Anyway, regardless of whether you're a McCartney fan or a detractor, these issues will come up for the club eventually.

It's not an easy position to be in. Everyone was calling for Bomber Thompson's head at Geelong after 2006 and we all know how it turned out for them after sticking by him, equally so, for every Bomber Thompson who is given a reprieve there are the others such as Wallace, Connolly, Eade, Ayres etc who aren't so lucky.

Where do you see the club and how they will deal with the above issues?

 

[Dazb86]

Let him see out his contract and then re-assess.

I have a fair bit of faith in the way Mcartney is developing the kids in the side. Tactically I'm not 100% sold on him.

 

[dogzrule]

Might be different if we got beat by lions 1st round as expected

It's going to be tough for him, injury list is massive at the moment and you can only play on that for so long

Looking at the draw we have Gold Coast round 8 away this is a must win for him otherwise the scrutiny will really start

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Give the time to see the kids develop and if they haven't developed then look at somebody else. I'm also not happy with our gameplan/training - we have poor skill. McCartney can fix it though.

 

[inyourfacedunk]

I don't see the media getting too stuck into the Bulldogs this year. Perhaps if Caro and Barrett don't have much to talk about one week they may write something, but I don't see that happening with Melbourne around and a few other teams playing the way they have been (e.g. WC compared to their last season and BL after their pre-season). Providing the team shows some improvement somewhere along the line. Whether it be more wins or much narrower losses than the last two games.

If by round 6 or 7 next year the team isn't showing any signs of progressing, then I expect the media to start asking the serious questions, rather than making the odd inquiry.

It also helps that the media seems to really like Macca. You don't see many coaches referring to the media people by first name very often, and he seems to do it a fair bit. He is very personable and likeable in that regard. Little things like that keep the sharks at bay for a while.

 

[DexterTan]

Given he's coached 27 games of AFL footy and his contract is up at the end of next year, why sack him? Let him see out his contract. Macca knows this and will want to be judged on the results of how the team has developed under 3 years of his coaching.

If it doesn't stack up, then go ahead and find another coach to get them to win after he's done the losing and the developing. After all the the kids would have played a bit more footy together, have had another preseason to develop. Another coach then tries to teach them a new gameplan and they'll have to get used to that gameplan.... why gee that sounds a bit like Melbourne!

As so called "experts" from the media and ex players have said, the dogs need time, the fact is, will the football club and its fans give him the time.

After reading the posts on a couple of forums and that old favourite the Western Bulldog facebook page, it looks like the fans want him sacked already.

But who would want to coach the bulldogs? When they see a coach gets sacked after 1 and bit years, they'll be thinking the dogs are quick on the trigger and will think, why bother if they won't give me time?

Unless of course Paul Roos puts his hand up and says "I want to coach the Western Bulldogs Football Club" you wouldn't say no to that!

 

[threenewpadlocks]

After reading the posts on a couple of forums it looks like the fans want him sacked already.

I have to admit I was one of those, mighty pissed after the loss! However, I'm happy for Macca to see out his contract.

 

[doggies ftw]

It would be ridiculous to sack him before the end of his contract. You cant give someone a nice big fat dog turd and expect them to turn it into gold in a bit over a year.

 

[Ant_]

He isn't going anywhere IMO.

 

[cleveland]

I'm happy for him to see out his contract but I'm seriously starting to worry and I was pro macca but we have gone backwards the last few weeks and it annoys the carp outta me.

I hope he is a long term coach for us and delivers as I like him but we would need to see some sort of improvement by half way through next year.....

 

[fronkalicious]

I started the worsfold thread. I'd like to see him stay next season, but only with a highly experienced senior assistant to help with match day strategy.

 

[Dancing Dougy]

I'm very pro Macca. From the outside, he appears to back his players and "love" his players 100%. This in turn will hopefully result in players giving their all for him.

Match day and tactically though, I do have my concerns, but this may merely be that the younger boys are taking time to adapt, especially when under the pressures of match day. Also that Macca is taking time to adapt his own vision.

Sure an experienced senior assistant could help, but only if requested by Macca. He appears a big enough man to know if he needed it, and I'd hate to make him think the greater Bulldog and especially the inner Bulldog community thought he wasn't capable and pressured him into it.

I love the stability, the fathering, the calmness and the confidence he projects. He's definitely out man.

 

[dogman]

I'm yet to see a grand final in my lifetime - let alone a premiership and I'm almost 50 .
Have some faith in this guy - we are rebuilding pure and simple . 5 years - this is year 2 - like what I'm seeing so far .
There will be pain but let's stick with the plan and stop jumping at shadows every loss !

 

[Super Hans]

He's the man for the job. We're in the second year of a rebuild, we just need to give it time. Everyone he has coached or coached with speaks very highly of him.

I started the worsfold thread. I'd like to see him stay next season, but only with a highly experienced senior assistant to help with match day strategy.

I agree 100%. Doubt it will be Worsfold as he will stay in Perth for a long while yet, but something like a Hird/Thompson, Buckley/Eade situation would be great. Mark Williams would be great for that role if we could get him.

 

[black pup]

Macca is doing a great job under very difficult circumstances, just tried to stem the tide on the weekend, that ia what he will try to do in the next to 2 weeks. We have not got the cattle, injuries to Higgins, Murphy, Wood, Dickson, Williams, and Gia is finished, lost that yard of pace. Macca in a very tough space, we just have to hang tough, and put game time into the right kids, plenty coming through, but the good ones are 3 years away. No quick fix at the Kennel.

 

[maddog37]

If we lose the next four matches by over 100 points then how will people feel?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

If we lose the next four matches by over 100 points then how will people feel?

I'm asking myself this very question. It's a possibility.

 

[StringyDog]

If we lose the next four matches by over 100 points then how will people feel?

We will lose the next 2 by margins, after which we have North and Gold Coast, if we lose to Gold Coast by 100 points noone at the club would be safe

 

[cleveland]

Just watched year of the dog....wow joyce lost the players lol

 

[dogzrule]

I'm asking myself this very question. It's a possibility.

Extremely possible but if you have been to a function and head him speak you will know we are heading in the right direction. Problem is time with players like Gia going out quickly and not having the cattle to replace them quickly enough

Put it this way the list management and drafts before his time (first rounders like Grant, Everitt, Howard)
And wasteful event picks such as Schofield, Skinner, Hill 2010 - Thorn, Markovic 2009

Will all fall on his lap and he will be judged on their success or lack of unfortunately

 

[NW2]

Like others I am very pro Macca. Anyone who thinks we were going to turn around completely in a year is having a laff. My expectations are for another ordinary year, with perhaps some improvement towards seasons end. This is the time to develop the younger players and creat ethe team ethos and belief. I'll be measuring our performance more by how many 100+ thrashings we get, probably more so than win/loss. Next year we'll start to get it together and I am honestly not expecting flag contention till 2016 at the very earliest. Kudos to Macca and team for our off season recruitment of Lower/Goodes/Stevens as well who all seem to be good gets as well.
Also Iknow its been mentioned but the injuries we've had will take even a decent performing club a round or two to bounce back from.

I'll be patient and philisophical with Macca this year and next.

Mind you - as StringyDog said - if we lose to GCS by 100+ I don't think even I would be safe.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Reassess at the end of the contract. Highly doubt he will get sacked pre-maturely.

He gets little criticism because he doesn't fluff around. He's not a high profile Malthouse.

 

[JJHunter]

So far I think McCartney has had a very easy ride from the media.

I think he has been lucky Melbourne have been around and so to the Essendon stuff. More recently I think Voss should be in more strife given the stat I heard that the lions have won the least games of any traditional (non expansion) clubs since round 4 2010.

Personally most will have read my thoughts on McCartney. I think he says all the right things and I think he is a good developer of players.

I personally dont see a game plan and all I hear is "crack in" and "contested ball".
Its really starting to annoy me given we won 13/22 contested ball counts in 2012 and hell we even won contested ball against the crows on the weekend.
Yet we can do that and get smashed by 60+ points - it means very little.

So if we are doing so well in that area there is a massive massive problem in our systems and outside play.
This is where his coaching to me seems too one dimensional and I think if it continues Id rather see an experienced coach come in and take the developed youth (courtesy of Macca) further in 2015.

He would want to push for finals next year for me to change that opinion.

 

[cammo78]

If we lose the next four matches by over 100 points then how will people feel?

The same as I do now.

Thankful my club isn't Melbourne and into an eighth year of rebuild with two coaches down and still the worst team in the comp.

Realistic that we were perennial finalists who almost cracked the big one but fell short, the crux of those sides now either having retired or retiring meaning we have a glut of kids all starting out at once.

Optimistic that once these kids get 40-50 games together the upward curve will kick in and away we go - like we did in 2005 after a couple of shithouse years.

We are GOING to cop many, many more hidings on the way. You can take that to the bank.

Sacking the coach is not the answer.

 

[Igloo]

In terms of the whole tactical, "crack in", "contested ball" stuff, as far as i'm concerned, we don't hear everything told to the players.

It would be extremely naive to think that's all the players are getting told. It doesn't bother me at all hearing the same thing. What he says in the media is always consistent and gives a very clear cut view of how we're going to play.

I'm patient enough to wait a couple of years. As far as we know, he could be telling them extremely detailed tactical plans, but they're not performing them right yet, since they're young. Boydy said that after the game as well (although that's probably just Boydy being Boydy. He wont make any excuses or push the blame to someone else).