Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[fargy]

It's a case of we won't beat Richmond, we won't beat GWS cause we are the worst with no game plan. Then when we win, yeah but look at who we beat, they are hopeless.

So to help explain, before we beat a team we are going to lose because we are the worst, but when we beat a team we are still the worst even though we should beat them cause they are the worst!

Make sense? If so, please seek help.

 

[Mattdougie]

Ja, especially after getting it wrong so often and retorting with nothing but "der you just don't respect my opinion".
Scary that some people are wasting valuable oxygen I may someday need.

You probably won't need it I'm sure

 

[immortalmike]

I agree that our list is still evolving and it is relatively clear even at this point who will be moved on at years end. I strongly disagree though with the bolded sentence above and am still waiting for a list (from the players below who Macca inherited) of who you'd still like to be playing now (at their current age)?

I'd take Brian Lake (Ward doesn't count though as I think he moved before Macca was appointed) and maybe Crossy for another year. These 3 aside that leaves 18 players (almost half a list) to choose from? Feel free to throw in some rookies as well.

Primary list:
Dylan Addison
Daniel Cross
Nathan Djerkurra
Lindsay Gilbee
Barry Hall
Ryan Hargrave
Josh Hill
Tom Hill
Andrew Hooper
Ben Hudson
Brian Lake
Lukas Markovic
Brodie Moles
James Mulligan
Sam Reid
Jayden Schofield
Justin Sherman
Zeph Skinner
Brennan Stack
Patrick Veszpremi
Callan Ward

Rookie list:
Ed Barlow
Mitch Hahn
Matthew Panos
Eddie Prato

That is painful reading. Our list is in much better shape now.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Ja, especially after getting it wrong so often and retorting with nothing but "der you just don't respect my opinion".
Scary that some people are wasting valuable oxygen I may someday need.

And yet I still feel bad for having a go at him.
I tried to be reasonable but it's so easy to get frustrated with some of what's being said. Cynicism can be healthy but some remarks just fly in the face of all evidence and logic.

 

[Mattdougie]

It's a case of we won't beat Richmond, we won't beat GWS cause we are the worst with no game plan. Then when we win, yeah but look at who we beat, they are hopeless.

So to help explain, before we beat a team we are going to lose because we are the worst, but when we beat a team we are still the worst even though we should beat them cause they are the worst!

Make sense? If so, please seek help.

Hahaha yes I didn't think we would beat Richmond and wasn't sure bout GWS

I was very impressed with how we wnt first half against tigers and then just as disappointed with second half

And sorry if I'm not jumping for joy that we beat an undermanned GWS and struggled to do so.

Why can other people on here say the same thing and no one comments on them??? Hmmmm guess the "clique" isn't upset with them YET

 

[Mattdougie]

And yet I still feel bad for having a go at him.
I tried to be reasonable but it's so easy to get frustrated with some of what's being said. Cynicism can be healthy but some remarks just fly in the face of all evidence and logic.

And I feel sorry about a lot of the naivety and blind support on here but that's life mate

 

[immortalmike]

And I feel sorry about a lot of the naivety and blind support on here but that's life mate

I don't see much blind support, mostly just reasoned opinions on why Macca is doing a good job at the moment and we should wait until the end of the year to make a judgement. Can you point me to a post that says McCartney is definitely going to be our next premiership coach? Because I can point you to several that say he definitely isn't and should be relieved of his duties now.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

I feel a psychologist would have a field day in this thread.

 

[Next Waiting]

I feel a psychologist would have a field day in this thread.

I feel at least one already is.

 

[immortalmike]

I feel a psychologist would have a field day in this thread.

Shhh....

 

[fargy]

Just watched Macca's message for this week! The Kool-Aid is delicious this week!

 

[lachy]

These sorts of quotes are the reason that the 'kool aid' drinking references come out.
Some people seem to have convinced themselves that our failure to win a flag under Eade was due to taking short cuts and missing some mythical cultural ingredient. Which is complete and utter garbage!

Under Eade, we had a strong culture of being extremely competitive and were able to get close to winning a flag, despite having significantly less money to spend on players, coaches, etc. than our competitors at the time. Not to mention other historically based disadvantages, including the fixture. A little bit more luck, and/or a couple of smarter decisions and we might have achieved the ultimate. Eade wasn't perfect by any stretch but he was a very good coach.

How on earth people have convinced themselves that having self inflicted pain by wallowing down in the lower reaches of the ladder is going to miraculously translate to not just future success but sustained success is beyond me. It is also beyond reason. The scoreboard and the ladder are direct measures of how well your team is doing in a given game or season respectively.

They reflect that we have done poorly so far under McCartney. Hoping that we will do better in the future is fine, but the all rhetoric about culture, and right path and "we have never tried this before" is not. It is pure BS!

Talk about the list being stronger and in better shape is also rubbish until it is proven with significant improvement in ladder position.
IMO our list is in worse shape now than when McCartney took over. We have a lot of players who have been on the list for 2+ years that are a long way from proving themselves at AFL level. Many are still a long way from getting a game with one of the lower ranked teams.

Have you even bothered reading the posts, or because it does not fit into your Macca is crap mantra you have just gone on with a heap of hyperbole.

Just to recap for you, Eade and Wallace did try and change the culture, however due to resources and a precarious financial position it was never going to be sustainable and unless you are drinking some Kool aid it was unsuccessful, otherwise I must have missed that grand final run.

Due to changes in AFL direction we have been able to build not a team but a sustainable club following successful examples such as Geelong and others named in posts. We have NEVER been in a position to do this in the modern era, in fact since the 1970's or maybe you can point to where we did it.

It is not just the coach it is the club. We have never, not since 1954 been the best club in the AFL/VFL, these are facts not opinions.

Again numerous examples have been provided where in the rebuild phase results and ladder positions improve over time however rarely is it 2 years unless there is a strong base.

You can maintain your short sighted view of the world, I am sure it works well for you, but before you say something is BS prove it. When have we built a club, not a list as Geelong did since the late 90's, Hawthorn since 1996 and Manchester United since 1986

 

[boydsno1]

Since when is a 30 point win scraping over the line? GWS had outs as did we.

 

[Butane]

Since when is a 30 point win scraping over the line? GWS had outs as did we.

I think of all clubs at the moment we should be the last to be concerned with our injury list.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

I think of all clubs at the moment we should be the last to be concerned with our injury list.

Roughead, Morris, Grant, Dahl are four of our top 22 and clearly Griff is carrying an injury.

 

[Misunderstood]

Roughead, Morris, Grant, Dahl are four of our top 22 and clearly Griff is carrying an injury.

Go Dogs-Go macca. Where is the old thing in the cheer squad Brendan McArtney is our mastermind just like Rhoder hahaha

 

[Dancing Dougy]

Can the BS please be posted elsewhere, this thread is a disaster!

 

[_Mike_]

Not quite Dougy.. Any posts about the topic will end up here as we don't want the board being stunk up with posts of the same nature.

 

[Butane]

Roughead, Morris, Grant, Dahl are four of our top 22 and clearly Griff is carrying an injury.

Grant is only just best 22 and up until this week we haven't gone in to a game with 2 of Morris, Roughead, Dahl or Griffen missing. I'm just saying, when you compare that to other teams we've had a pretty good run so far. Touchwood.

 

[Dancing Dougy]

Not quite Dougy.. Any posts about the topic will end up here as we don't want the board being stunk up with posts of the same nature.

By "elsewhere" I was hoping to imply "not at all".

I think I'm far to pro Macca, to read a lot of this tripe.

 

[Proffessor]

Have you even bothered reading the posts, or because it does not fit into your Macca is crap mantra you have just gone on with a heap of hyperbole.

Just to recap for you, Eade and Wallace did try and change the culture, however due to resources and a precarious financial position it was never going to be sustainable and unless you are drinking some Kool aid it was unsuccessful, otherwise I must have missed that grand final run.

Due to changes in AFL direction we have been able to build not a team but a sustainable club following successful examples such as Geelong and others named in posts. We have NEVER been in a position to do this in the modern era, in fact since the 1970's or maybe you can point to where we did it.

It is not just the coach it is the club. We have never, not since 1954 been the best club in the AFL/VFL, these are facts not opinions.

Again numerous examples have been provided where in the rebuild phase results and ladder positions improve over time however rarely is it 2 years unless there is a strong base.

You can maintain your short sighted view of the world, I am sure it works well for you, but before you say something is BS prove it. When have we built a club, not a list as Geelong did since the late 90's, Hawthorn since 1996 and Manchester United since 1986

In the world of science (and law/justice for that matter) theories are not accepted until you can prove them to be valid, rather than accepted until they can be disproved.

As stated previously, until the results start showing significant improvement (if they ever do) then all your claims about building sustainable success are just empty rhetoric.

They currently fail the simplest comparison test. If the current approach is better, then why have team results gone significantly backwards when compared to the previous coach?

I also have bad news for you regarding your future aspirations. Considering our club is a long way behind most of its competitors from a financial perspective, and that AFL is still a fair way off being a level playing field, the Bulldog's are unlikely to be clearly the best club in the AFL/VFL within the foreseeable future. If we are to win a flag in the not too distant future, then it is more likely to be by making it back up near the top (through some very clever recruiting and coaching), and then have a reasonable run of luck with form, injuries, etc. at the right time and just happen to be the best team on the big day.

You are right in suggesting that the club and administration are important in achieving success, although what this has to do with McCartney's coaching, I'm not too sure.

 

[immortalmike]

In the world of science (and law/justice for that matter) theories are not accepted until you can prove them to be valid, rather than accepted until they can be disproved.

As stated previously, until the results start showing significant improvement (if they ever do) then all your claims about building sustainable success are just empty rhetoric.

They currently fail the simplest comparison test. If the current approach is better, then why have team results gone significantly backwards when compared to the previous coach?

I also have bad news for you regarding your future aspirations. Considering our club is a long way behind most of its competitors from a financial perspective, and that AFL is still a fair way off being a level playing field, the Bulldog's are unlikely to be clearly the best club in the AFL/VFL within the foreseeable future. If we are to win a flag in the not too distant future, then it is more likely to be by making it back up near the top (through some very clever recruiting and coaching), and then have a reasonable run of luck with form, injuries, etc. at the right time and just happen to be the best team on the big day.

You are right in suggesting that the club and administration are important in achieving success, although what this has to do with McCartney's coaching, I'm not too sure.

In the world of science there is also something called a confounding variable, it seems to be something you are unfamiliar with.

 

[littlenails]

Good on Mattdougie for his fervent postings on this board. Pshh to those who seek to ridicule him.

It does seem as there are cliques on this board as seen by the number of personal messages in the general text (eg I'll meet you at ...). Therefore the suspicion of getting attacked by members of the same clique is genuine and is enough to put people off posting here.

Have you never been coached by somebody who really knows what they are doing? You sometimes practically have to start all over. That happened to me, my performance went down before after long training it came up to championship standard. All the time, improving, doing things the proper way, the old two steps forward and one back, watching my contemporaries going along the same way, knowing what they are doing wrong.

So, if Macca is doing this, it takes time. I don't know exactly what he's doing, but it 'aint too bad. Give him the time to cook his pudding. At the end of the year the proof will be in the eating. (Then praise him as we would have won the premiership. Yay!!)

 

[Mutt]

Good on Mattdougie for his fervent postings on this board. Pshh to those who seek to ridicule him.

Perhaps you should advise Mattdougie to stop crapping on about others drinking the Kool Aid and not facing reality. If he stopped insulting people on here, then some might be more tolerant of him.

Mattdougie can't seem to accept that not everyone on here agrees with him. It's fine to have differing opinions - this place would be dull if we all agreed on everything. But you shouldn't go out of your way to antagonize people and you shouldn't just make things up and pass them off as fact if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[_Mike_]

I believe that some people still live in the past , wont let go and just cant accept that things have moved on..

We're not stuck in a timewarp, Eade is gone.. Get over it.. We didn't win a flag and there is no way in hell we would have won a flag with the list that Eade was managing in his last year.. (or it would have happened)

The situation is what it is - bashing peoples opinions on an internet forum is not going to change the mindset of the club. If you want to push the kool aid agenda, go speak to Simon Garlick as a paid member (if you are), otherwise quit the tripe about what happened between 2008-2011. We are not going to resolve it here.

So either post something positive in terms of where the alternative solution is and don't bother with the regurgitated rhetoric.

If there is nothing positive that you can add either for or against McCartney its best you dont bother