Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[TheHoneyBadger]

Anyone wanna know why I have an issue with Macca just watch stkilda or port.

The improvement their respective coaches got from them in THEIR FIRST YEAR is clearly apparent and both those sides lists were considered a lot worse than ours.

Their game structure and defensive patterns are CLEAR for everyone to see and they may not work every week but anyone can see where they are headed.

In maccas third year he cannot say the same and no one can honestly admit they see a clear style week to week.

The results come with that improvement and it hasn't taken them years to turn it around and head forward or use excuses that only buy an inferior coach time

You're entitled to your opinion but the dead horse you've been beating that we've got no gameplan is an argument that has absolutely no merit whatsoever, and you're going to have to find another means to justify your grudge against McCartney.

Watch for this tomorrow. We play 5 forwards and push a man up the ground forcing our exits from center stoppages to the halfback line, where Murphy and Wood are running off their men, receiving it from the players that have won the clearance and delivering to the talls who are leading up the wing.
Notice we're developing a midfield of taller, stronger players designed to win possession, win aerial contests and deliver the ball quickly by foot. Notice we're employing a more versatile forward setup of Jones, Crameri, Grant (when available) and smalls rotating through, as opposed to the common man's plan to recruit a one dimensional tall and watch everything mysteriously fall into place.
Notice our defense isn't made up of Maxwell/Gibson-esque fisters to force stoppages, it consists of players that can win in contests both aerial and at ground level and then have the burst speed to move off and deliver it to the leading players along the wing.

I'm willing to bet that you have no understanding of the game plans Hinkley or Richardson are employing and you're basing any mock-analysis on win tally alone, which is a difficult gauge considering St Kilda played Melbourne and GWS in the first 2 rounds and a fatigued Essendon off the back of a Perth trip.
Furthermore Hinkley inherited a list which had already done the bottoming out for him, and Richardson's main drivers are remnants of the Lyon era - Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna.

 

[gimp!]

But we still don't do that on maccas the of year. we still don't do that on maccas the of year.

 

[Mattdougie]

They've won two ******* games, both of which their biggest contributer was Riewoldt.

Also, the Saints lost by nearly a 100 points the week before to Adelaide who are certainly not a good team at all. They beat GWS by 7 points on the back of five goals from Riewoldt and a good game from Hayes. I'm seeing less tactics and more senior players still performing at a high level.

OMG HOW MANY TOMES DO I HAVE TO SAY ITS NOT THE RESULT IM TALKING ABOUT

Defensive patterns
Setups
Defensive running in numbers


NOT RESULT

 

[Super Hans]

Mate you simply don't like me and the feeling is mutual but how am I lying??

Even the commentators were talking about stkildas defensive patterns and setups.
And port do the same.

You go and watch the dogs HONESTLY WITH BOTH EYES OPEN and then tell me if we do that???

We don't and no matter how much you disagree with me that is a fact

I don't think you know what a fact is.

 

[Igloo]

Mate you simply don't like me and the feeling is mutual but how am I lying??

Even the commentators were talking about stkildas defensive patterns and setups.
And port do the same.

You go and watch the dogs HONESTLY WITH BOTH EYES OPEN and then tell me if we do that???

We don't and no matter how much you disagree with me that is a fact

You saying our stoppage work isn't like that is blatantly wrong. Our stoppage work was among the best in the competition last year.

 

[Mattdougie]

But we still don't do that on maccas the of year. we still don't do that on maccas the of year.

Wow does it hurt when u think ??

 

[Mattdougie]

You saying our stoppage work isn't like that is blatantly wrong. Our stoppage work was among the best in the competition last year.

Where did I say stoppage work???

I said set up defensively in stoppages which is no existent and is why we get cut up out of stoppages we lose even though I admit it is a strength of ours to win more than we lose

 

[Mattdougie]

I don't think you know what a fact is.

Yeah I

Our game style is clear, we play contested football.[/quot

Contested football is not a game style mate it's a required part of football and that is a fact.

If you think that contested football is a game style another fact is you have no idea

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

 

[Super Hans]

Yeah I

Bro u need 2 stahp drinkin da Alen Richardzen K00L AiD.

 

[Mattdougie]

You're entitled to your opinion but the dead horse you've been beating that we've got no gameplan is an argument that has absolutely no merit whatsoever, and you're going to have to find another means to justify your grudge against McCartney.

Watch for this tomorrow. We play 5 forwards and push a man up the ground forcing our exits from center stoppages to the halfback line, where Murphy and Wood are running off their men, receiving it from the players that have won the clearance and delivering to the talls who are leading up the wing.
Notice we're developing a midfield of taller, stronger players designed to win possession, win aerial contests and deliver the ball quickly by foot. Notice we're employing a more versatile forward setup of Jones, Crameri, Grant (when available) and smalls rotating through, as opposed to the common man's plan to recruit a one dimensional tall and watch everything mysteriously fall into place.
Notice our defense isn't made up of Maxwell/Gibson-esque fisters to force stoppages, it consists of players that can win in contests both aerial and at ground level and then have the burst speed to move off and deliver it to the leading players along the wing.

I'm willing to bet that you have no understanding of the game plans Hinkley or Richardson are employing and you're basing any mock-analysis on win tally alone, which is a difficult gauge considering St Kilda played Melbourne and GWS in the first 2 rounds and a fatigued Essendon off the back of a Perth trip.
Furthermore Hinkley inherited a list which had already done the bottoming out for him, and Richardson's main drivers are remnants of the Lyon era - Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna.

Mate I be honest with you and say if you see that then great but I simply don't and IF I did I'd shut up.

We change week to week and have no apparent base structure.

And I've said 100 times it's not results. Watch stkilda last week they tried to play the same but got chopped up by turn overs. Developing teams will do that but the "base" is there every week and doesn't change

 

[Mattdougie]

Bro u need 2 stahp drinkin da Alen Richardzen K00L AiD.

I know why would I want to have a coach that has turned a team that most said will win the spoon into a 4-2 team after next week and they actually look like the have a plan AFTER 5 weeks not 2 years.

 

[Testekill]

So Mattie, why do you constantly s**t on the Bulldogs and only come out when we lose or if there's something for you to complain about? According to you, you're a longterm member and yet you cannot say a positive thing about a club that you follow.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Defeatist exaggerations aside, I do see some merit to Mattdougie's arguments.

St Kilda are a good comparison. Their list now is at a similar stage to where ours was when McCartney took over - a group of excellent ageing players carrying a bunch of average middle-agers and youngsters devoid of any experience whatsoever. Thus our development trajectories - while on a ~1-2 year delay - should be similar. St Kilda are a side that should not overtake us in the near future. Perhaps in five or so years - but that would more likely be a result of better recruiting. In the short term, we should remain a better side than the Saints and in that respect they aren't a terrible gauge for how we're tracking.

HOWEVER - there's no way to accurately gauge how either side is going at the minute. Too few games in varying conditions against different teams. Thus any attempt to argue for Macca's beheading on the basis of St Kilda's structures in the first five rounds is premature and ridiculous.

If St Kilda threaten to overtake us in the short term, I do tend to agree with Mattdougie that perhaps it would be time to reassess - but five games is not a good enough sample size to be able to judge their improvement accurately.

 

[Mattdougie]

Truly as sick as you guys are of hearing my cr@p I'm sick of a lot of your opinions also BUT I CAME HERE TONITE IN AN ATTEMPT TO SHOW YPU WHAT I WANNA SEE.

You still clearly all disagree with me which is fine I really don't care, all I want is a competitive team that I can watch and and enjoy win or lose.

I honestly don't see that WVER happening under Macca and time will tell but no matter what excuse people make Richardson and Hinkley have proved that improvement(NOT WINS) doesn't take years

 

[Bont2Bruce]

So Mattie, why do you constantly s**t on the Bulldogs and only come out when we lose or if there's something for you to complain about? According to you, you're a longterm member and yet you cannot say a positive thing about a club that you follow.

I think it has something to do with this:

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Truly as sick as you guys are of hearing my cr@p I'm sick of a lot of your opinions also BUT I CAME HERE TONITE IN AN ATTEMPT TO SHOW YPU WHAT I WANNA SEE.

You still clearly all disagree with me which is fine I really don't care, all I want is a competitive team that I can watch and and enjoy win or lose.

I honestly don't see that WVER happening under Macca and time will tell but no matter what excuse people make Richardson and Hinkley have proved that improvement(NOT WINS) doesn't take years

We'll see where Richardson's at after 2 seasons and 4 games, where McCartney sits now.
It's not going to be quite so pretty as it is now. We'll see how apparent the game plan is then.

 

[Mattdougie]

So Mattie, why do you constantly s**t on the Bulldogs and only come out when we lose or if there's something for you to complain about? According to you, you're a longterm member and yet you cannot say a positive thing about a club that you follow.

Did we lose this week???

How can I be positive about a coach I think is not the right man?? I won't just follow the accepted line coz it's "nice"

I speak up coz I love my club and are sick of the excuses that all other clubs don't accept.

The club has done some fantastic things over the last few eats but the fact that we even accept a 5 year plan talked about publicly proves how far away from the big fish we are.

I can guarantee that many teams may have a give year plan but they don't publicise it and

 

[fargy]

Port was woeful in 2011, 2012. Hinkley got a list on the up.
The Saints are one year behind us, 2012 they had a similar year to our 2011, 2013 they had a similar year to out 2012. So I'm expecting a similar year to ours last year.
If you can't see the improvement from 2012 to 2013 to 2014 you need to open your eyes.

 

[Mattdougie]

We'll see where Richardson's at after 2 seasons and 4 games, where McCartney sits now.
It's not going to be quite so pretty as it is now. We'll see how apparent the game plan is then.

Funny how EVERYONE just ignoring my reference to port who were said to have the worst list in AFL history when Hinkley took over.

 

[gimp!]

I speak up coz I love my club and are sick of the excuses that all other clubs don't accept.
The club has done some fantastic things over the last few eats but the fact that we even accept a 5 year plan talked about publicly proves how far away from the big fish we are.

You just make s**t up.

We change week to week and have no apparent base structure.

You just make s**t up.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Funny how EVERYONE just ignoring my reference to port who were said to have the worst list in AFL history when Hinkley took over.

Said by who?
Hinkley inherited a list that had already gone through the pain of finishing low for player acquisition. All he had to do was drill good habits and a brand of footy into them all summer. Having the best fitness man in the competition helps, too.

 

[Mattdougie]

Port was woeful in 2011, 2012. Hinkley got a list on the up.
The Saints are one year behind us, 2012 they had a similar year to our 2011, 2013 they had a similar year to out 2012. So I'm expecting a similar year to ours last year.
If you can't see the improvement from 2012 to 2013 to 2014 you need to open your eyes.

Hinkley got a list that the Herald Sun said was the worst lost in the AFL so I don't accept that mate.

Ok in 2 years time do you honestly see us competing for the top 8??

Obviously you do, I don't so that's my issue. It will be his fifth year and no finals.

If that occurs is it time then to move him on or go with another 5 year plan and excuses why it takes so long?

 

[Mattdougie]

You just make s**t up.

You just make s**t up.

You add nothing. Try an original thought of your own and don't hurt yourself doing it

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Hinkley got a list that the Herald Sun said was the worst lost in the AFL so I don't accept that mate.

Ok in 2 years time do you honestly see us competing for the top 8??

Obviously you do, I don't so that's my issue. It will be his fifth year and no finals.

If that occurs is it time then to move him on or go with another 5 year plan and excuses why it takes so long?

The same Herald Sun paper that you're referencing as gospel has declared McCartney as the right man for the job at the Bulldogs and often speaks glowingly of his coaching.
Case closed? I didn't think so.