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[HowYouDoin]

I always find "Best 22" lists bemusing and futile.
Best 22 when?
Now? Round one (4 months away)? Round 6 when they've settled? Round 22, when they have proved themselves? Round... any given week when any number can be out with injury or having a slump?

I believe there is no such thing as a best 22, and for a young team like ours, even more so.
Schache will likely be a better player than Close, but not right away. Well, except that schache is probably in better nick than Close, but Close is a better build.
For so many of our options, it's like comparing oranges with apples. And to use another turn of phrase, 'horses for courses' springs to mind.

Shache will likely be a better player than Close? He already is. Hell, he basically equals close's goal tally from his Western Australia game alone and I'm not sure why you even said Close is built better when Schache towers over him in Height and Weight.

Comparing Schache's Potential to that of Close is basically comparing Jason Akermanis to Justin Sherman. Not ripping on Close here, but as far as our forward stocks are concerned. He's behind most of them.

 

[WA Lion]

Shache will likely be a better player than Close? He already is. Hell, he basically equals close's goal tally from his Western Australia game alone and I'm not sure why you even said Close is built better when Schache towers over him in Height and Weight.

Comparing Schache's Potential to that of Close is basically comparing Jason Akermanis to Justin Sherman. Not ripping on Close here, but as far as our forward stocks are concerned. He's behind most of them.

could have fooled me....

 

[HowYouDoin]

could have fooled me....

That's what happens when you compare a Pick 32 project player who has a less than a goal a game average to that of a Pick 2' under 18 All Australian record breaker.

 

[a mayes ing]

Shache will likely be a better player than Close? He already is. Hell, he basically equals close's goal tally from his Western Australia game alone and I'm not sure why you even said Close is built better when Schache towers over him in Height and Weight.

Comparing Schache's Potential to that of Close is basically comparing Jason Akermanis to Justin Sherman. Not ripping on Close here, but as far as our forward stocks are concerned. He's behind most of them.

Close will be ahead of Schache. Schache has done absultly nothing in the AFL whereas Close has competed and done wellish. I think the coaching panel will think this but Close and Schache will be on equal terms in the pre-season and whoever performs stronger than the other will get the nod. Certainly wouldn't say a 18 year old stringbean is ahead of Close tho.

 

[SizeMatters]

There's no way to sugar coat this but Close has done SFA at AFL level. I understand he is still young but he didn't really show any glimpses that you would expect from a young player. IMO he is better suited down back potentially. He isn't a natural forward and almost refused to use his main strength when he did play in the seniors. He needed to run and just continually present but he failed to do this.

 

[Balony_pony16]

There's no way to sugar coat this but Close has done SFA at AFL level. I understand he is still young but he didn't really show any glimpses that you would expect from a young player. IMO he is better suited down back potentially. He isn't a natural forward and almost refused to use his main strength when he did play in the seniors. He needed to run and just continually present but he failed to do this.

Agree...the only thing close has on schache is age. I get why people would try and talk Schache down, but lets face it there aint much competition up forward. I expect Schache to be playing quite a bit in his first season, and sure it wont be easy for him but he will learn and we can back him developing much faster then the Close types

 

[Balony_pony16]

Close will be ahead of Schache. Schache has done absultly nothing in the AFL whereas Close has competed and done wellish. I think the coaching panel will think this but Close and Schache will be on equal terms in the pre-season and whoever performs stronger than the other will get the nod. Certainly wouldn't say a 18 year old stringbean is ahead of Close tho.

mmm...hipwood you could can a stringbean. Schache is a pretty big boy already

 

[BrizzyBandit]

I really think Close is best suited for defense.
He has the stamina to stay with even the most fit/ hard running CHF's... He also has the agro factor as which you want in a defender.

Close could be a great replacement for Merrett.

 

[a mayes ing]

mmm...hipwood you could can a stringbean. Schache is a pretty big boy already

He still needs to add a lot of muscle mass to his frame. Close looks pretty muscly from the photos l have seen of him.

Agree...the only thing close has on schache is age. I get why people would try and talk Schache down, but lets face it there aint much competition up forward. I expect Schache to be playing quite a bit in his first season, and sure it wont be easy for him but he will learn and we can back him developing much faster then the Close types

Not sure why you think there wouldnt be much competition. If you don't think Close would be ahead of him, Freeman and Walker would be. Walker, while still young is experienced, played for a successful team and gotten goals against teams. And you can't deny that Freeman hasn't shown any signs.

I wouldn't think that there would be 3 tall forwards in the forward line as there would be little forward defensive pressure. And while getting a record haul in the u18 champs is great, it shouldnt really apply as they are just kids, these are AFL defenders.

There's no way to sugar coat this but Close has done SFA at AFL level. I understand he is still young but he didn't really show any glimpses that you would expect from a young player. IMO he is better suited down back potentially. He isn't a natural forward and almost refused to use his main strength when he did play in the seniors. He needed to run and just continually present but he failed to do this.

Is that because of him or because of the coaching. Maybe the coaching said to him stay in the f50, l don't know. But l was surprised he didn't run more and can only think it is because of what the coaches asked of him.
Remember, it takes forwards 3-4 years for them to compete consistently. I think he has got a goal a game iirc. Thats about what Dixon had and Lynch (GC) has after 50 games. I do think that he would be better as a defender now that we have more options up forward.

 

[scott_the_man]

I always find "Best 22" lists bemusing and futile.
Best 22 when?
Now? Round one (4 months away)? Round 6 when they've settled? Round 22, when they have proved themselves? Round... any given week when any number can be out with injury or having a slump?

I believe there is no such thing as a best 22, and for a young team like ours, even more so.
Schache will likely be a better player than Close, but not right away. Well, except that schache is probably in better nick than Close, but Close is a better build.
For so many of our options, it's like comparing oranges with apples. And to use another turn of phrase, 'horses for courses' springs to mind.

Schache is 5kg heavier than close whilst only being 3cm taller. Wouldn't definitively say Close has the better build

 

[M Malice]

That's what happens when you compare a Pick 32 project player who has a less than a goal a game average to that of a Pick 2' under 18 All Australian record breaker.

Agree...the only thing close has on schache is age. I get why people would try and talk Schache down, but lets face it there aint much competition up forward. I expect Schache to be playing quite a bit in his first season, and sure it wont be easy for him but he will learn and we can back him developing much faster then the Close types

i think the competition for schache will not come from close but freeman, and close walker and mcstay will fight out another spot.

I really think Close is best suited for defense.
He has the stamina to stay with even the most fit/ hard running CHF's... He also has the agro factor as which you want in a defender.

Close could be a great replacement for Merrett.

also agree with brizzy bandit, could be really good down back. i might be wrong but can't remember him ever playing down there, maybe nab challenge?

 

[Skoob]

Shache will likely be a better player than Close? He already is. Hell, he basically equals close's goal tally from his Western Australia game alone and I'm not sure why you even said Close is built better when Schache towers over him in Height and Weight.

Comparing Schache's Potential to that of Close is basically comparing Jason Akermanis to Justin Sherman. Not ripping on Close here, but as far as our forward stocks are concerned. He's behind most of them.

Michael Close: 15 Games, 10 Goals.
Josh Schache: 0 Games, 0 Goals.

There's no way to sugar coat this but Close has done SFA at AFL level. I understand he is still young but he didn't really show any glimpses that you would expect from a young player. IMO he is better suited down back potentially. He isn't a natural forward and almost refused to use his main strength when he did play in the seniors. He needed to run and just continually present but he failed to do this.

Matthews said the trio of Michael Close, Daniel McStay and Jono Freeman were showing enough flashes of promise to suggest they would be serviceable avenues to goal in the future.
LEIGH Matthews says “glimpses’’ not goals should be the benchmark for Brisbane’s battery of young key forwards in 2015.

Schache is 5kg heavier than close whilst only being 3cm taller. Wouldn't definitively say Close has the better build

Is weight and build the same thing? Does weight = strength? I wouldn't think so.

I'm not running Schache down here, but some think he is the messiah and whilst he may eventually prove to be (we all hope so), he has a lot of development to go. Being super in an under 18 carnival doesn't make you an automatic AFL star.
Jordan Lisle regularly ripped it up in the NEAFL.
Sam Grimley just won the VFL's Frosty medal along side Lisle. It means nothing in terms of getting AFL games.

Other than that, I was using Close v Schache as an example.

Schache will likely be a better player than Close, but not right away. Well, except that schache is probably in better nick than Close, but Close is a better build

I was illustrating the fact that there is more to consider than who was drafted higher or kicked the most goals last year. Comparing a skinny kid who hasn't played a game with an older kid who has played 15 games and done okay but hasn't played for a year is a bit more involved than the approach I think most are taking. When Close hits the field next year, it'll have been about 12 months since he played and whilst Schache has played plenty of footy in the past year, he has played with schoolboys.
Either could be anything, and my point remains that "Best 22" lists make a lot of assumptions with a lot of guessing.*

EDIT: * Including Close's weight.

 

[scott_the_man]

Schache is no monster, but he's big enough to compete at AFL level. He can also use his endurance (14+ beep iirc?) to burn his opponent on the lead. Good possibility he'll start round 1 if he impresses through the preseason IMO. Not saying he will be an immediate gun forward, but he will certainly offer a bit at AFL level, 20-30 goals for the year would be a good return

 

[Forward We Go]

Schache is 5kg heavier than close whilst only being 3cm taller. Wouldn't definitively say Close has the better build

Close has a significantly higher muscle content while Schache has a lot of puppy fat that will drop off him in preseason while replacing some of it with muscle. Expect Schache to be lighter come season opener.

 

[scott_the_man]

Close has a significantly higher muscle content while Schache has a lot of puppy fat that will drop off him in preseason while replacing some of it with muscle. Expect Schache to be lighter come season opener.

True but I don't reckon he'll drop under 93kg

 

[brizrider]

Does weight = strength? I wouldn't think so.

That's a pity, I could just about be the strongest man in the AFL if it did.

 

[lions2010]

I really think Close is best suited for defense.
He has the stamina to stay with even the most fit/ hard running CHF's... He also has the agro factor as which you want in a defender.

Close could be a great replacement for Merrett.

I see Close as CHF leading up the ground connecting defense to forward 50. Similar to Brown in his early years while Schache and Freeman will play inside the forward 50.

I thought Close showed a bit in this position before he got injured with his knee.

 

[chopperduck]

So many here underestimating Close. It is worth remembering Close plays as a CHF, he doesnt play close to goals and he wont be being marked by how many goals he kicks.

Schache and Freeman are much more FF types. Close has being playing the hardest position on the ground to play, CHF. He will continue to play his role and work up the ground being that linking tall target, chipping in with a goal or 2 when the opportunity knocks.

A great game from Close wont be a bag of 5. It will be 1 or 2 goals with 15-20 possessions, 10 odd marks and a heap of goal assist and scoring chain involvements.

 

[chopperduck]

Those talking about weights need to think about where they are getting their info from. Anything you find on Close is likely to be start of the 2015 season measurements. The bloke has been out with an acl, he has been in the gym, he will have a few more kgs on him by R1 next year.

 

[M Malice]

not many posters last few pages mentioning josh walker, the fact that we traded him in as a solution to our KPF problem will ensure he is given a reasonably long run as a KPF so that would mean close, freeman, schache and maybe mcstay are fighting it out for 1 or 2 spots.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Close v Schache...But which one can actually play? Lets not get in a pissing match about weight. Schache is a far better talent and I'm not sure the coaches will want him rotting away in the ressies too long until he is at an optimum weight & BMI. We need to pull the Leah Matthews card and aim for 50 games ASAP with the young fella and just manage fatigue/burnout

 

[jackess]

We're still looking for a key forward leading up to the wings which is where I think Close will be best suited. He has elite fitness for a kpf but hasn't shown to be a good pack mark. He'll probably have to improve his ball use though.

 

[winged1]

What AFL.com thinks is our best team. Discuss.

View attachment 196567

Gardiner and Paparone will be in the side, Close if he is right would be in, I would be surprised if they run Schache round 1, I also think Nrobbo would be there. Who goes out? Cutler, Mayes, Schache, Claye Beams (who is coming off a knee).

The nicest thing is that there is actually some discussion about our best 22 instead of being obvious. The other thing is there is actually some good talent that WILL miss out round one. McGrath is an interesting one too, the kid can play.

 

[WA Lion]

That's what happens when you compare a Pick 32 project player who has a less than a goal a game average to that of a Pick 2' under 18 All Australian record breaker.

Careful! You said 'Project Player' - Acuguy will be having a whinge at you in no time...

 

[WA Lion]

Gardiner and Paparone will be in the side, Close if he is right would be in, I would be surprised if they run Schache round 1, I also think Nrobbo would be there. Who goes out? Cutler, Mayes, Schache, Claye Beams (who is coming off a knee).

The nicest thing is that there is actually some discussion about our best 22 instead of being obvious. The other thing is there is actually some good talent that WILL miss out round one. McGrath is an interesting one too, the kid can play.

Yeah, as much as I am a fan, I would be surprised if Claye Beams is in there R1, and I would have to disagree with you RE Close. I think he starts the season in the 2's.

Plus the other thing to remember for all fans is that team is picked assuming no injuries! That simply doesn't happen at the Lions!