Mental Health aspects of anti-doping

[andrewb]

I wanted to start a discussion about the mental health aspects of this affair based on Paul Gallen's recent admission. There has been a lot of discussion on these boards about the physical health risks of the supplement program, particularly w.r.t. quackery and informed consent.

While we've been arguing about the physical aspects there has been anecdotal evidence of mental health issues in the Essendon camp, but Paul Gallen (see the article below), is the first case of a diagnosed mental health problem that could potentially be associated with the handling of the case. n.b. It'd be appreciated if you kept your opinions about the validity of Gallen's illness to yourselves.

Some potential questions for discussion:

- How could the AFL/NRL anti-doping process in non-presence cases be improved in order to prevent the stress and pressure that has been placed on the players and support staff that have been involved?

- What support structures should have been / could be put in place for these people to ensure that their mental health is being looked after during such a process and whose responsibility should that be?

- What improvements could be made to the media's code of practice to reduce the impact on players and support staff who are being investigated?

- How could the EFC / AFL / ASADA have better supported the players and support staff with regards to mental health following the commencement of the investigation?

Let's try not to turn this into another thread about whether Essendon are guilty or not, eh? There's plenty of those already.

http://www.theaustra...n-1227106069002

JUDICIARY chairman Paul Conlon has resigned over the NRL’s handling of the Paul Gallen affair.

The NRL this afternoon confirmed Conlon had tendered his resignation and offered their thanks for his work over the past seven years.

It is understood he had become increasingly frustrated in the role, but the NRL’s decision to fine Gallen $50,000 for an offensive tweet was the final straw.

...
In outlining their sanctions against Gallen, the NRL said it would speak to the NSW Rugby League about his future as Blues captain. Peponis responded by saying he felt a level of sympathy for Gallen over his troubles of the past 18 months, when the ongoing Australian Sports Anti-Doping Agency investigation into the Sharks allegedly led to the club’s skipper receiving treatment for depression.

Gallen has declined to comment on reports he is suffering from depression. Furthermore, he has vowed to fight the NRL over the sanctions he received for posting a vulgar tweet in which he described the NRL as “c..ts”.
...

 

[chelseacarlton]

Or the mental health aspects of doping...

 

[jenny61_99]

I could be flippant and say you could have protected the mental health of the players by not injecting them with off label and experimental drugs. But I'll put some further thought into it and respond later.

 

[rdhopkins2]

No doubt it is talking its toll on the players (for whom I have sympathy) mentally but we don't stop a murder trial because the accused may get upset.

I'm sure the Bombers would be giving their players access to suitable mental health professionals with he best interests of their players in mind.

 

[Tiger Snake]

good thing Doc Reid is on the ball...
i'm sure he has happy pills that are legal...

 

[Argy]

- How could the AFL/NRL anti-doping process in non-presence cases be improved in order to prevent the stress and pressure that has been placed on the players and support staff that have been involved?

Have the clubs keep accurate, reliable and audited records of what is administered to players.

- What support structures should have been / could be put in place for these people to ensure that their mental health is being looked after during such a process and whose responsibility should that be?

Have the clubs keep accurate, reliable and audited records of what is administered to players.

- What improvements could be made to the media's code of practice to reduce the impact on players and support staff who are being investigated?

Nothing. The media's role is not psychological counselling. It's role is to report. It must be free to do so.

- How could the EFC / AFL / ASADA have better supported the players and support staff with regards to mental health following the commencement of the investigation?

The club should have kept accurate, reliable and audited records of what is administered to players.

 

[Hinkley Power]

What is meant by "mental health of the players"?

Depression? A condition we are continually told is a disease.

Are we talking about stress on the players?

What is the source of the stress?

Is Zaharakis under the same stress as say Jobe? Is Reid under stress?

What about James Hardie?

Are journalists (if you want to call them that) under stress over reporting spin for almost 2 years?

How much stress was Andruska under?

Is Chapman under stress? What about Cooney and Goddard?

What about David Evans last year? Or Dank

 

[pablo668]

It would have to be taking it's toll on the players. I have no doubts about that.
If any of the players suffer depression/anxiety then this will be doing them no favours.....and probably triggering the odd breakdown here n there.

This is unfortunate, and I would be sympathetic towards anyone who is in this position. I hope they have access to decent health professionals in this case.
Treatment for this would be in the realm of professionals and no one else though.
Everything else under the sun goes on as normal unfortunately.

 

[Bluesince62]

It is all about true co-operation from all parties resulting in a speedy resolution.

Sticking with the David Evans approach would have seen this over and done with in 2013. The egos of Hird and Little have drawn this out and put enormous emotional strain on the innocent/naive/stupid players. Their arrogance is to blame.

The enduring use of spin doctors by both EFC and Hird has fed the media masses. Likewise Vlad's persistent leaking. A consistent no comment or let the process happen from day 1 would have seen this die in the press. Alas, no. Mr and Mrs Hird always wanted the last word because they are egomaniacs who don't give a toss about anyone else.

 

[BlueWorld]

I could be flippant and say you could have protected the mental health of the players by not injecting them with off label and experimental drugs. But I'll put some further thought into it and respond later.

And kept complete records. And accepted responsibility rather than all the denial and deflection and blame shifting- saga would have been over long ago.

 

[BF Tiger]

- How could the AFL/NRL anti-doping process in non-presence cases be improved in order to prevent the stress and pressure that has been placed on the players and support staff that have been involved? Minimal media coverage... but the Bombers self-reported and then held a press conference telling us how clean they were.

- What support structures should have been / could be put in place for these people to ensure that their mental health is being looked after during such a process and whose responsibility should that be? Trips to France on full pay work well.

- What improvements could be made to the media's code of practice to reduce the impact on players and support staff who are being investigated? All articles to be vetted by Robbo and Chip.

- How could the EFC / AFL / ASADA have better supported the players and support staff with regards to mental health following the commencement of the investigation? AFL could've got a bigger rug.

 

[tesla1962]

What is meant by "mental health of the players"?

Depression? A condition we are continually told is a disease.

Are we talking about stress on the players?

What is the source of the stress?

Is Zaharakis under the same stress as say Jobe? Is Reid under stress?

What about James Hardie?

Are journalists (if you want to call them that) under stress over reporting spin for almost 2 years?

How much stress was Andruska under?

Is Chapman under stress? What about Cooney and Goddard?

What about David Evans last year? Or Dank

As real as it is, who keeps telling you it is a disease? That Adelaide water must have deteriorated even further.

 

[andrewb]

This is kind of what I expected when I started this thread but hey, at least jenny61_99 is going to take it seriously.

I doubt any of you would really want a future investigation involving your club to play out like this one has, so why can't we have a serious discussion about how it should run if it happens again.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Maybe they should listen to the Verve?.

 

[Tiger_man322]

This is kind of what I expected when I started this thread but hey, at least jenny61_99 is going to take it seriously.

I doubt any of you would really want a future investigation involving your club to play out like this one has, so why can't we have a serious discussion about how it should run if it happens again.

Won't happen again. Clubs would be stupid to go do something similar after this whole case.

Mental health aspect: Sure, the players and club officials and staff would be under a lot of stress and therefore, it would be expected for their mental health to suffer due to it. HOWEVER, the AFL and other clubs would offer some mental health services, such as a psychologist or counseling. The structures are in place to help those who are suffering. I would fully expect that EFC should be paying full costs for those who require more than what the club offers, since the club was the one that failed to look after it's players/staff.

 

[tesla1962]

This is kind of what I expected when I started this thread but hey, at least jenny61_99 is going to take it seriously.

I doubt any of you would really want a future investigation involving your club to play out like this one has, so why can't we have a serious discussion about how it should run if it happens again.

I'll bite then Andrew
I think the last thing on ASADA's agenda has been the mental health of the players and the same with the AFL
The AOD issue is just one example of many. That ASADA and the AFL didn't clarify the AOD issue when they knew was pretty disgraceful
There have been inexplicable and inexcusable delays clearly the fault of ASADA all the way through this farce that have impacted on the players more than any other party
McDevitt's current posturing seems to be pretty offensive too - I hope WADA gives him a kick up the arse while he is O/S so he gets this to the tribunal as soon as he can

 

[TerryWallet]

This is kind of what I expected when I started this thread but hey, at least jenny61_99 is going to take it seriously.

I doubt any of you would really want a future investigation involving your club to play out like this one has, so why can't we have a serious discussion about how it should run if it happens again.

Write a letter to your Club.

Headline it: END THIS. STOP THE LIES......NOW

 

[Bluesince62]

This is kind of what I expected when I started this thread but hey, at least jenny61_99 is going to take it seriously.

I doubt any of you would really want a future investigation involving your club to play out like this one has, so why can't we have a serious discussion about how it should run if it happens again.

I was totally serious. Full co-operation as was offered by Evans until he was shut down and given his own mental health issues by Albert. Would have been over last year except for Hird and Little. Very simple solution

 

[Broken_Chairs]

if you don't systematically inject your players with experimental, boundary-pushing, or WADA prohibited drugs, you won't place your players under unnecessary stress.

imo essendon players will be able to claim stress related compensation from their club.

 

[tesla1962]

I was totally serious. Full co-operation as was offered by Evans until he was shut down and given his own mental health issues by Albert. Would have been over last year except for Hird and Little. Very simple solution

Please explain to me how the investigation would have been over sooner given the players fully cooperated and the club did as well (as stated by the AFL during handing down the sanctions)

 

[B0SK]

I wanted to start a discussion about the mental health aspects of this affair based on Paul Gallen's recent admission. There has been a lot of discussion on these boards about the physical health risks of the supplement program, particularly w.r.t. quackery and informed consent.

While we've been arguing about the physical aspects there has been anecdotal evidence of mental health issues in the Essendon camp, but Paul Gallen (see the article below), is the first case of a diagnosed mental health problem that could potentially be associated with the handling of the case. n.b. It'd be appreciated if you kept your opinions about the validity of Gallen's illness to yourselves.

Great angle. I liked the part where you refrained from saying the players have suffered so much mental anguish already it serves as ample justification for letting them off the hook, despite that being the point you're driving at.

The main reason this process has been so drawn out is due to Essendon's fanatical penchance for threatening to sue anyone in the immediate vicinity at a moment's notice. Your club threatened journalists about to break the story back in 2012 with litigation, it threatened the AFL with litigation, it threatened ASADA with litigation (and actually followed through), and my guess is it probably threatened Dank, Dean Robinson, and any player who cuts a deal with ASADA with litigation.

Had Essendon been willing to follow the process from the beginning -rather than initially saying it would but then doing everything in its' power to derail the process- this entire affair would've been tidily wrapped up last year at the very latest. Instead, Paul Little's combative and belligerent approach has unnecessarily dragged this saga out not only for the players involved, but for the other seventeen clubs and the AFL itself, all of whom plainly wanted the situation resolved last year. Not that Essendon gave a flying you-know-what what anyone outside the club thought, that much is painfully obvious.

So yes, I do expect that the Essendon players' mental health has suffered as a result of Essendon's steadfast refusal to admit guilt in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Meanwhile Essendon supporters like yourself keep on pointing the finger at absolutely everyone but Hird and the club itself while wringing your hands and sobbing "why us? we don't deserve this!"...... yet nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[andrewb]

If there's one thing that everyone can agree on it is that no party in this saga has emerged with a clean nose. I'd strongly suggest that this indicates a process / framework problem rather than a problem with the participants.

Would the AFL have gone so hard after Hird if he didn't drop Demetriou in the s**t? Probably not.
Would the EFC have responded like they did if the AFL hadn't have published the interim report? Probably not.
Would ASADA's investigation have been more pure if they didn't get into bed with the AFL? Probably.
Would ASADA's investigation have been more pure if they weren't pressured by the government? Probably.

I'm trying to start a discussion about the process itself rather than the case in question. It clearly needs fixing.

 

[tesla1962]

Great angle. I liked the part where you refrained from saying the players have suffered so much mental anguish already it serves as ample justification for letting them off the hook, despite that being the point you're driving at.

The main reason this process has been so drawn out is due to Essendon's fanatical penchance for threatening to sue anyone in the immediate vicinity at a moment's notice. Your club threatened journalists about to break the story back in 2012 with litigation, it threatened the AFL with litigation, it threatened ASADA with litigation (and actually followed through), and my guess is it probably threatened Dank, Dean Robinson, and any player who cuts a deal with ASADA with litigation.

Had Essendon been willing to follow the process from the beginning -rather than initially saying it would but then doing everything in its' power to derail the process- this entire affair would've been tidily wrapped up last year at the very latest. Instead, Paul Little's combative and belligerent approach has unnecessarily dragged this saga out not only for the players involved, but for the other seventeen clubs and the AFL itself, all of whom plainly wanted the situation resolved last year. Not that Essendon gave a flying you-know-what what anyone outside the club thought, that much is painfully obvious.

So yes, I do expect that the Essendon players' mental health has suffered as a result of Essendon's steadfast refusal to admit guilt in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Meanwhile Essendon supporters like yourself keep on pointing the finger at absolutely everyone but Hird and the club itself while wringing your hands and sobbing "why us? we don't deserve this!"...... yet nothing could be further from the truth.

Rightio then
So this explains the months of delay between when downes finished his review and when SCNs were issued - one of the many inexplicable delays wada slammed, remember

 

[LoungeLizard]

Another informative and well considered post by the mental giant going by the name of lounge lizard

At least i respected the Op's wish, did you?
I would comment, but to tell you the truth i have no idea what the players are stressing over.
IE:
Is it just the stress of the investigation?
Is it stress over not knowing what they took?
etc. etc.

 

[TerryWallet]

If there's one thing that everyone can agree on it is that no party in this saga has emerged with a clean nose. I'd strongly suggest that this indicates a process / framework problem rather than a problem with the participants.

Would the AFL have gone so hard after Hird if he didn't drop Demetriou in the s**t? Probably not.
Would the EFC have responded like they did if the AFL hadn't have published the interim report? Probably not.
Would ASADA's investigation have been more pure if they didn't get into bed with the AFL? Probably.
Would ASADA's investigation have been more pure if they weren't pressured by the government? Probably.

I'm trying to start a discussion about the process itself rather than the case in question. It clearly needs fixing.

You won't give a s**t about fixing the process once EFC's players penalties are handed down.

Stop the Lies.

EFC and their hero James Hird got caught team doping.

And have refused to man up ever since....leaving a trail of destruction of THEIR making.