MFC = victims

[A11dAtP0w3R]

We played against a shockingly bad side, which helped.

Most of their positives this year have been the development of first year players like Miller and Saad, and they were only debuting in rd 1.

Best attacking footy we played this year was either against Richmond or Collingwood, just missed too many shots to really keep the board ticking.

Ablett played, GC are always a decent team whenever Gaz pulls on the jumper. Our best attacking football of the year.

 

[Jack London]

Ablett played, GC are always a decent team whenever Gaz pulls on the jumper. Our best attacking football of the year.

With one shoulder...

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

With one shoulder...

Yet still nearly tore us to shreds in the last quarter to win them the game until we pulled away by playing attacking football, without Dawes.

 

[melbournemartin]

Pretty much that, and also that the players must be able to use the ball proficiently by foot.

Problem is that we draft guys with supposed elite footskills, e.g. Morton, Maric, Toumpas, and then they come to the AFL and it goes to s**t. Not only are they soft as butter and can barely touch the ball, but even when they are under no pressure they don't have footskills that are anywhere close to elite.

Surely we should have a crack at Suckling?

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Problem is that we draft guys with supposed elite footskills, e.g. Morton, Maric, Toumpas, and then they come to the AFL and it goes to s**t. Not only are they soft as butter and can barely touch the ball, but even when they are under no pressure they don't have footskills that are anywhere close to elite.

Surely we should have a crack at Suckling?

There is zero evidence of Toumpas being soft.

I wanted us to go very hard at Suckling a year or two ago. I imagine we'd have to offer him a pretty significant pay raise though while the Hawks are still in the window.

 

[melbournemartin]

There is zero evidence of Toumpas being soft.

I wanted us to go very hard at Suckling a year or two ago. I imagine we'd have to offer him a pretty significant pay raise though while the Hawks are still in the window.

Whilst I don't have a Milne - Gibbs like video to back it up, I've always had this impression after watching every one of his games.

Honestly nothing has impressed me so far except his game vs St Kilda which I've tried to wipe from existence.

 

[Tempy Tiger]

Problem is that we draft guys with supposed elite footskills, e.g. Morton, Maric, Toumpas, and then they come to the AFL and it goes to s**t. Not only are they soft as butter and can barely touch the ball, but even when they are under no pressure they don't have footskills that are anywhere close to elite.

Surely we should have a crack at Suckling?

I think our guys probably have as good as foot skills as any other club, it's just that our game style breaks them psychologically. It's pretty hard if your trying to kick through a full opposition press. Every kick has to be perfect. There's so much more margin for error if you can run through the zone and break it up. Unfortunately that is taboo in our game plan.

 

[Klyntonius]

I think our guys probably have as good as foot skills as any other club, it's just that our game style breaks them psychologically. It's pretty hard if your trying to kick through a full opposition press. Every kick has to be perfect. There's so much more margin for error if you can run through the zone and break it up. Unfortunately that is too difficult with our workrate.

EFA

 

[LeverPuller]

http://titusoreily.com/an-open-letter-to-paul-roos-and-peter-jackson/

Titus is a gun.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

I think our guys probably have as good as foot skills as any other club, it's just that our game style breaks them psychologically. It's pretty hard if your trying to kick through a full opposition press. Every kick has to be perfect. There's so much more margin for error if you can run through the zone and break it up. Unfortunately that is taboo in our game plan.

Accurate. Also low confidence and faith in teammates, and an expectation that things can only be bad.

 

[TigerTime3]

Hey guys,

I think there is merit to the causal framework Paul Roos hinted at this week (with poorly chosen words). I experienced it with my club 6-7 years ago with Terry Wallace and 25 years of failure.

Paul is right when he says the negative expectation from the bottom feeds up and affects the players' psyche. However, they shouldn't blame supporters, as they've been loyal and are merely reacting to what has been dished up on-field for 10 years. It's not your job to set the culture.

And therein lies the vicious cycle.

The team losses, the supporters develop accurate, realistic expectations... and these filter up and over time make it even more difficult for the club to break the cycle. It's a negative feedback loop and it's nobody's individual fault - it accumulates gradually over time in response to reality.

How to break the cycle? I don't think Paul Roos has the answer. He can identify the problems though, which is a start.

At my club, there were a string of moments around late 2009/2010 that changed the way I perceive the club. I can distinctly remember one very powerful shift in my own personal mindset that was a result of action taken by Brendon Gale:

- In 2010, with 9 years of no finals and we were labelled worse than Fitzroy and had 9 losses to start the season with a percentage of like 47%... he came out and said "we will not be asking for a Priority Pick at the end of the year. We're responsible for our positions and it's 100% our responsibility to get us out of this mess".

I was like what?! Surely we deserve a PP!! We're the worst performed team over 25 years!!
I also felt a little warm at the boldness of that "we need no help" attitude. Over time, it paid off more than some PP kid.

Another thing that caused a shift to my thinking was this:

- Gale consistently went at great lengths to NOT blame the past admins/coaches. He gave heartfelt thanks to everyone who has tried to help our club return to glory, acknowledging they didn't have the environmental conditions to get the best out of themselves or others, but their effort was to be applauded. He didn't mention names (never said "Terry Wallace" publicly after 2010) and made supporters feel more appreciation and understanding towards those who have failed us. (Eg, Terry Wallace had to paint the walls himself, cos we couldn't afford a painter... "our fault" as a club, not his).

Comments on forums changed in tone after this... but only gradually.

Here is an example of how difficult it is to change the bottom-up expectations of supporters:

- When we made finals in 2013 for the first time in 12 years. In the lead up, I remember everyone on forums was freaking out about us somehow finding a way to lose and embarrass ourselves and miss finals at any moment. Even when we were 3 games clear with 5 rounds to go, literally 95% of the supporters were refusing to say we're in. Our captain continually spoke in a defeatist way to the media (partly to stop the media saying we're getting ahead of ourselves) by saying "we won't even think about finals until it's mathematically impossible to miss".

- In 2014, at 3-10, we all thought the sky had fallen. It was same old Richmond. Sack Dimma, cleanout the list, tank for picks, start again. Then we beat a bottom 4 team. Damn! We went up a spot on the ladder... then we beat the Giants. Damn! Dropped another spot higher on the ladder. Then we beat Carlton, North, Crows, etc and we stopped caring about the draft picks and just enjoyed the winning feeling for a change. Then we beat Sydney in Sydney for 9 straight to make finals. Wow. That was the moment. That was the moment a lot of people at the club said "I'm never doubting this club again".

- In 2015, we started at 2-4 but you know what? We'll be right. Most likely make finals, but won't make top 4 damn. Then we play unbeaten Freo in Round 10 and you know what? I tipped Richmond to win. We won. Beat Sydney, Hawthorn, etc... great, and so we should. Spewing we're just making finals and miss out on top 4 by 1 game. Go into every game expecting to win or compete now. On the forums, there's maybe 10% of posters still freaking out about missing the finals by losing every game by 20 goals and missing out on percentage... but they're now shouted down by the vast majority who have a belief in the club to say "of course we'll make it stop being negative".

The shift has been enormous... but it took 5 years, and even now there's hints of it by the minority. After 4 years with Dimma/Gale, it took a miracle 9 game winning streak to make finals to change our minds somewhat (and even then, not completely). This required a 'get ourselves out of it' mentality that didn't reward a draft pick culture. Most posters complained about all those meaningless wins and meaningless finals loss to Port last year. It's taken until our third finals series in a row this year to stop most of that... and it could come rushing back if we miss next year. After we lost 1 game to West Coast in Round 12 this year, I saw about half our supporters reverting back to their old negative ways. But then we kept winning, and they reacted with strengthened confidence.

It won't be a quick fix for you.

Ultimately, the fans merely react to the actions of the club.

The solution MUST come from the club. It starts before you start winning, so it requires the club to come out with a plan to subside negative expectations/blame coming from supporters for 2-3 years, to enable the players a chance to break the negative feedback loop and have a greater chance of winning. Paul Roos was supposed to give you guys that hope.

He succeeded on the back of his reputation early on, but where he's failed is with his constant distancing of himself from the club, therefore breaking the following golden rules:

- Demonstrate shared responsibility
- Encourage supporters to applaud those who tried and failed in the past (no blame-shifting to the past)
- United mindset that accepts responsibility on behalf of others (like the psychological concept of Jesus Christ dying on behalf of humanity to absolve everyone of our sins... lol...), the leaders must be willing to unfairly accept disproportionate blame in order to free everyone else of the burden!

Sorry for the lengthy post. I'm just posting casually, but I do have serious ideas about this topic and hope you enjoyed reading the experiences of a similar club that seems to have finally broken their cycle.

 

[Tiger71]

I've been thinking about the playing lists incredibly fragile psyches and I think what it boils down to is that we play like victims. We are always waiting to lose. To get beaten up. For the umpires to screw us. We don't screw the prom queen. 17 other clubs come and pinch our date, bang her and then come and tell us how good it was.

We are still a soft, timid and apologetic club. We need way more Hogan and Petracca and way less Garland, Grimes, Watts, Toumpas etc.

I hope they target pricks in the draft. Nasty campaigners are what we desperately need. I'm sick of supporting a netball team masquerading as a football club.

You'd think that after a decade of mediocrity we might have at some point decided to be the hunter and not the hunted but no, we remain a prey item for the rest of the comp.

Hey guys, hope you dont mind me sharing my opinion ? Just I have lived what you are living and feel the need to share

The problem as I see it with your playing group, fragility, is exactly what my club had for years and years. Bottom line, when you go heavy and start recruiting core players from outside of your club, to lift you up the ladder it creates a us v them with in the group. What I mean by that is simply this, the kids your draft in, may have gone through a couple of s**t years, then you bring in 4-5 starting 22 players from outside, who have not experienced what the rest of the young playing group. Just really holds the whole playing group from buying in, together.

I know i have not explained this really right lol. It is that we did not turn the cornor till 80% of our list was drafted in together, only then did we add roleplayers like a grigg, houli and chaplin to allow the young kids to develop....I think you guys need to do the same. Dont worry about buying in to the club the next talent, draft it in.

 

[deeco]

Tiger71 I'll give you the hot tip mate: 80-90% of your supporter base will be melting if you don't win a final this year. Your supporters are the most on again off again from week to week in the competition. Your success has had nothing to do with your supporter base buying in or not. It's had to do with playing a team game, having talented players and your fringe players stepping up.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

I don't think players like Brayshaw, Brayshaw, and Hogan would be as pleased to play alongside a thug like Tony Greene as you might think.

What about guys like Brayshaw though?

 

[ManWithNoName]

What about guys like Brayshaw though?

And don't forget Brayshaw.

 

[jack son 5]

With one shoulder...

Ablett started the game with two shoulder's until J.Viney grabbed him, pinned his good arm, rolled him over and slammed his troubled side into the turf. All in the first 5 minutes of the game. It rates with Bernard's job on Dangerfield this year. The boy's can play hard, when they feel like it.

 

[jack son 5]

 

[deeco]

View attachment 167525

"We don't take kindly to your type round here boy!"

 

[PerfectFooty]

Tiger71 I'll give you the hot tip mate: 80-90% of your supporter base will be melting if you don't win a final this year. Your supporters are the most on again off again from week to week in the competition. Your success has had nothing to do with your supporter base buying in or not. It's had to do with playing a team game, having talented players and your fringe players stepping up.

I think the success of Richmond is because of the board not giving in to the preassure from Richmond supporters. They put their faith in Hardwick, and early on he looked like another coach to leave tigerland early, but they stuck it out and it's somewhat payed off

 

[Dark Avenger]

"We don't take kindly to your type round here boy!"

Champions? At least the recruiters don't.

 

[deeco]

I think the success of Richmond is because of the board not giving in to the preassure from Richmond supporters. They put their faith in Hardwick, and early on he looked like another coach to leave tigerland early, but they stuck it out and it's somewhat payed off

There were still cries of sack him until they went on their run after losing to Norf. Supporters still haven't bought in. Having non-muppet board is definitely a key to on-field success.

Champions? At least the recruiters don't.

That's negative! BOOOO!

 

[stretcharmstrong]

EFA

Well said.

 

[jhong]

Watch this you pack of softcocks mascarading as players for the MFC .R.I.P Sean .
( !st and second year Players not included )

 

[schmuttt]

Watch this you pack of softcocks mascarading as players for the MFC .R.I.P Sean .
( !st and second year Players not included )

He was before my time, but man that is such a moving video. What I'd give for a guy who could play like that on our half back line now. The shots of him with Jimmy and Flower are so powerful (Even though both those guys were still alive and well when the video was made).

 

[jhong]

He was before my time, but man that is such a moving video. What I'd give for a guy who could play like that on our half back line now. The shots of him with Jimmy and Flower are so powerful (Even though both those guys were still alive and well when the video was made).

Full back ,halfback and could play forward . It was his attack on the ball , loved watching him play.