Michael Clarke vs the World

[Mancey]

So by your book this guy is a grandstanding tosser as well?



The Clarke hatred is laughable.

Thought that might come up.

McDermott was flagrantly questioning his captains decisions, and AB rightly gave him a reality check.

Smith was simply chatting to an opposition player. Clarke made a big show out of something that wasn't that big a deal and happens every game.

I would think there is a pretty stark contrast in those two scenarios.

Not to mention Border carried off the gruff, authoritarian skipper role with aplomb and therefore garnered the respect of the players, while with Clarke it just looks forced and phony. You could easily see Clarke being an object of ridicule with the other players for incidents like that

 

[western royboy]

Clarke and Lehmann aren't on speaking terms at the minute, I'd suggest that might be a problem for him.

 

[Tex_21]

Clarke and Lehmann aren't on speaking terms at the minute, I'd suggest that might be a problem for him.

Besides that whole racism incident, did always like Boof

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I don't hate Clarke, but I'm not sure if he's the best option long term for our team.

Who's talking about the long term?

This is about not sacking him/forcing him out before the Ashes. You don't have to back him long-term to realise that would be a bad idea.

Make the change after that.

 

[Mateyman]

You mean to say that after Smith scored this hundred at The Oval, someone else from Australia's rich batting stocks was set to come in and take his spot at 5?

Lol, he had an average of about 30 at the time. I don't exactly call that cemented in the team

 

[Mateyman]

Wut

Smith has been a walk up start since the '13 ashes

Can we please stop referring to people with averages in the low 30s as "walk up starts"

 

[Sweet Jesus]

That was a tour match and McDermott was being a smart arse, there's every chance Border didn't even know the camera was on him. Plus no one else (other players, opponents, umpire) were anywhere around, big difference.

This post just highlights how selective the criticism of Clarke can be.

So what if it was a tour match? What difference does that make?

The whole criticism of Clarke is that he's a prick and the players don't like him. The clip of him admonishing Smith is apparently proof of all that's toxic about his leadership. But when we see Border going much further, you make excuses for it.

What difference does it make that Border didn't know the camera was on him? The issue is how the captain should interact with his teammates, not whether it's caught on camera.

Thought that might come up.

McDermott was flagrantly questioning his captains decisions, and AB rightly gave him a reality check.

Smith was simply chatting to an opposition player. Clarke made a big show out of something that wasn't that big a deal and happens every game.

I would think there is a pretty stark contrast in those two scenarios.

Not to mention Border carried off the gruff, authoritarian skipper role with aplomb and therefore garnered the respect of the players, while with Clarke it just looks forced and phony. You could easily see Clarke being an object of ridicule with the other players for incidents like that

Could you bend over backwards any further?

Border tells his bowler that he'll be on the next plane home if he tests him. And in your book that's no problem. But Clarke tells Smith not to get too chummy with the opposition and that's unacceptable?

Don't give me these contrived distinctions that supposedly make these two situations apples and oranges. There's no "stark contrast". That's nonsense. You can't disapprove of one and be cool with the other. Let's be consistent.

For the record, I don't have the slightest problem with either exchange. I think the brouhaha over Clarke addressing Smith is a bit of a red flag on the way people are seizing on the scantest evidence and the merest hint of discord to justify their existing dislike of Clarke.

 

[Noobz0r]

Does the fact that Border was intentionally and publicly captain grumpy a justifiable difference?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Does the fact that Border was intentionally and publicly captain grumpy a justifiable difference?

Did he put the players 'on edge'?

If so, he should have been sacked. Right?

Isn't that what's being said of Clarke?

It just highlights how wishy-washy the arguments against Clarke are.

 

[The_Reaper]

Clarke and Lehmann aren't on speaking terms at the minute, I'd suggest that might be a problem for him.

Now that's more concerning than Rod Marsh.

 

[sickman112]

Lol, he had an average of about 30 at the time. I don't exactly call that cemented in the team

Are you aware of the concept of an average score? Let me give you a refresher.

A batsman's runs scored over his career are added up, then the total is divided by the number of times he has been dismissed.

In Steve Smith's case, having first been selected as a leg-spin bowler with limited batting ability, he was not a prolific scorer in the beginning of his career.

This string of low scores accounted for a significant portion of Smith's average (which, in fact, was 34.77, being what most would call mid-thirties) meaning he was a better player at that time than that average showed.

But whatever, none of that actually matters. What matters is he has a good rapport with the team, has a great cricket brain and is scoring runs, which are the reasons he was appointed as captain.

 

[Kakkle]

Clarke was not happy with Sandhu's inclusion in the ODI side recently either, wanted Abbott over him, even though it really has nothing to do with him.

 

[The_Reaper]

To be fair I can't blame Clarke for being pissed with the selectors who gave him Maxwell in a test team- let alone as a number 3

 

[Mateyman]

Are you aware of the concept of an average score? Let me give you a refresher.

A batsman's runs scored over his career are added up, then the total is divided by the number of times he has been dismissed.

In Steve Smith's case, having first been selected as a leg-spin bowler with limited batting ability, he was not a prolific scorer in the beginning of his career.

This string of low scores accounted for a significant portion of Smith's average (which, in fact, was 34.77, being what most would call mid-thirties) meaning he was a better player at that time than that average showed.

But whatever, none of that actually matters. What matters is he has a good rapport with the team, has a great cricket brain and is scoring runs, which are the reasons he was appointed as captain.

What the hell has this got to do with Smith being "cemented" in the team after the 2013 Ashes???

So you're trying to tell me that a bloke who went to England not even being on the Cricket Australia contracts list for 2013/14 and then proceed to average 38 over 5 tests (heavily inflated by 138* in a dead rubber) was fully cemented in the team

 

[King Elvis]

Clarke and Lehmann aren't on speaking terms at the minute, I'd suggest that might be a problem for him.

Know the cause?

 

[sickman112]

What the hell has this got to do with Smith being "cemented" in the team after the 2013 Ashes???

So you're trying to tell me that a bloke who went to England not even being on the Cricket Australia contracts list for 2013/14 and then proceed to average 38 over 5 tests (heavily inflated by 138* in a dead rubber) was fully cemented in the team

Don't know what your view of Australia's current batting talent is, but there's not much waiting patiently in the wings anymore mate.

And to my second point, why does it even matter? Who would you have preferred to take the captaincy?

 

[Mateyman]

Don't know what your view of Australia's current batting talent is, but there's not much waiting patiently in the wings anymore mate.

And to my second point, why does it even matter? Who would you have preferred to take the captaincy?

My view of the Australian batting talent is that 1 series of averaging 38 after not being offered a contract doesn't cement you in the team. Pretty simple.
Did you actually read my post at all before jumping to Smith's defence? If you had you would know that I didn't say anything about it mattering.

 

[King Elvis]

Who was next in line, what were there domestic records, and how were they currently performing?

Average of 38 for a rookie in an away Ashes Series is very good.

 

[western royboy]

Know the cause?

Like I said - a slow build up of things, Clarke whinging when he doesn't get his way, ducks and drakes over fitness, running different media plays to those agreed, in general not following the gospel according to Boof who when appointed came in with the mandate to run the team as he saw fit.

This has nothing to do with Watson, although as highlighted, he and Clarke are not friends in any way shape or form.

The faces have to fit.

 

[ClokesShankedIt]

Yes, how could Clarke and Warner fall in love with a woman with previous sexual partners :0 ...

What sort of man wants his kid to grow up in a world where finding out his mother rooted a rugby player in a public toilet is a google away?

 

[western royboy]

To be fair I can't blame Clarke for being pissed with the selectors who gave him Maxwell in a test team- let alone as a number 3

Clarke wanted Doolan to get an extended run at No.3

 

[western royboy]

Now that's more concerning than Rod Marsh.

Worse still when you are offside with both I would have thought.

 

[ClokesShankedIt]

I don't have a complaint with the message Clarke gave to Smith, but the way it was delivered speaks volumes of his leadership skills/character. In my book if you want to get the best out of a cricketer, don't tell them off in front of their opposition and fans.

not hard to see what smith is thinking there

 

[western royboy]

To put it bluntly.

Roy was enjoying a night with Bingle in Sydney. He had a teammate enjoying the show and tagging in.

Roy invited Clarke to join the party, and there were 3 guys essentially going through her at once. (apologies for being so crude, I'm nearly 60 this sort of thing wasn't common in my day!)

Then a few weeks later, Clarke is suddenly dating her. Roy thought this a bit odd, but said nothing.

Then they got engaged, Roy rang him (while in the presence of the full QLD Bulls squad) and asked him what on earth he was thinking marrying a girl he met under 'those circumstances'.

Roy's career was over within 6 months, and his off-field behaviour hadn't changed one bit...

Cat out of the bag now.

Clarke played a massive role in the early end to Symonds career, played a similar role in the end of Katich's test and then domestic career in Australia.

 

[Mancey]

The comparison of the Border and Clarke incidents is a pointless one. Even if they were similar situations, and they were not, Clarke did not have the presence, nor respect to carry such an act off without it looking contrived.

Border was as much a patriarch to australian cricket as a captain, Clarke leads by example by letting his bat do the talking, but the over the top Hughes thing aside, father figure he is not.

He makes a conscious effort to cultivate an image, and its an act that has worn thin with those around him

And don't read that as saying Australian cricket needs another border like figure as captain. Border was made captain over 30 years ago, it was a different era. The game, and the expectations of an australian captain, have moved on from that time.