Michael Clarke vs the World

[Super Hans]

ah i understand now.

you must concede however that people are always going to change their minds about people. its human nature. do you expect bulldogs members to all applaude and cheer for cooney?

There's no comparison to that in international cricket, rarely does a player just go change nations.

If Clarke left in 2010 to go play for England, I could well and truly justify the hate, but he hasn't. He's been our best player for a while, but now that Smith/Warner are coming on everyone wants to knife him.

I don't get annoyed at people hating Clarke, I can see how he is unlikable, I get annoyed when people love him until he looks like he is expendable (which IMO he isn't) then all of the sudden people hate him (again, I'm not talking about people who have had personal dealings with him, I'm talking about just on lookers).

btw, I love Cooney still. Should of used Griffen as the example, * that guy.

 

[legend166]

What I don't get is I've still never heard a single thing that made me sit up and think, "Wow, Clarke really is a horrible bloke." Sure, where there's smoke there's fire, and he's probably got a narcissistic personality. But in the grand scheme of Australian cricketers, I think there's been a lot worse. Shane Warne is actually a legitimately awful person and he's worshiped.

Let's just take all the rumours at face value:

- The dust up with Katich: Pretty clearly that both sides played a part in this, but at the end of the day Katich grabbed the guy around the throat. That's not acceptable in a professional environment. Even if you think Clarke was acting like a complete knob I don't see how you can defend Katich's actions. The Australian cricket team is not a club side and these people aren't teenagers.

- The Symonds bust up: Could Clarke have been vindictive because of women trouble? Sure, he probably was. But Symonds showed up drunk to a game. Hardly Clarke's fault. Cricket Australia deserve much more derision after how they handled Monkey-gate.

- The Hussey boat fiasco: honestly I can't even remember what happened here I've heard so many different things. People hold a grudge because of some social function clash? Move on with your lives and stop acting like 16 year old private school boys. From what I remember of Hussey's account he seemed to be disappointed that it happened but it's not like it was the insult of his life.

- Clarke clashes with CA establishment over selections: Well when you get stuck with Maxwell at three, can you blame him? The Australian selectors haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in the last decade.

- Clarke clashes with CA establishment over fitness: I honestly don't see the issue with Clarke playing in the Adelaide test. It was clearly extraordinary circumstances - the team suffered the death of a player and Clarke wanted to lead the team as captain. He then scored a big 100 and we won the match. As for the World Cup issue - of course he wants to play. It's a home World Cup. I think people underestimate how important the World Cup is to the players because we all think ODIs are less important now. If CA don't think he's fit to play, just rule him out and be done with it. Don't launch a media campaign through orchestrated leaks to undermine him. Just say "We don't think you'll be fit so we're not picking you." End of story. Criticising Clarke for doing everything he can to play in the team is silly.

Anyway, I'm sure people on the other side of the issue have different views on those things. But at the end of the day we've got some personality clashes with team mates (which happens all the time in every sport and should be managed), and a rift with Cricket Australia, which everyone believes is generally inept anyway but for some reason when it's against Clarke they're immediately given the benefit of the doubt.

 

[STFU Donnie]

Well that's quite irrelevant, but thanks anyway I guess.



In legal terms? What the hell? Did Border get sued for defamation for this or something?

What, the captain of the team being under close scrutiny during a minor tour match? Not only is it relevant, it is the actual subject of our conversation.

 

[peternorth]

There's no comparison to that in international cricket, rarely does a player just go change nations.

If Clarke left in 2010 to go play for England, I could well and truly justify the hate, but he hasn't. He's been our best player for a while, but now that Smith/Warner are coming on everyone wants to knife him.

I don't get annoyed at people hating Clarke, I can see how he is unlikable, I get annoyed when people love him until he looks like he is expendable (which IMO he isn't) then all of the sudden people hate him (again, I'm not talking about people who have had personal dealings with him, I'm talking about just on lookers).

btw, I love Cooney still. Should of used Griffen as the example, **** that guy.

the turning of the tide against clarke is just a build up of incidents, proven or not. opinions change.

the example i gave is indeed relevant and apt. it shows and highlights changing perceptions of a person.

 

[the_interloper]

What, the captain of the team being under close scrutiny during a minor tour match? Not only is it relevant, it is the actual subject of our conversation.

I'm pretty sure the example you came up with describes a bigger incident than the little 10 second disagreement between skipper and fast bowler. And just because it was a big story at the time doesn't mean there was a camera on them.

 

[STFU Donnie]

I'm pretty sure the example you came up with describes a bigger incident than the little 10 second disagreement between skipper and fast bowler. And just because it was a big story at the time doesn't mean there was a camera on them.

Oh but there was. The pictures were quite amusing.

As for your "humorous" highlighting: if this is how you need to handle being shown up, then perhaps get back to me after you have experienced puberty.

 

[the_interloper]

Oh but there was. The pictures were quite amusing.

As for your "humorous" highlighting: if this is how you need to handle being shown up, then perhaps get back to me after you have experienced puberty.

I'm still not sure why your example proves you have shown me up but I'll let the baby have its bottle and crown you the winner if you want. Either way you'll never convince me Clarke wasn't grandstanding and AB was just being AB. And if Clarke is a hero of yours, well, I feel sorry for you that's for sure.

 

[Father Jack]

What I don't get is I've still never heard a single thing that made me sit up and think, "Wow, Clarke really is a horrible bloke." Sure, where there's smoke there's fire, and he's probably got a narcissistic personality. But in the grand scheme of Australian cricketers, I think there's been a lot worse. Shane Warne is actually a legitimately awful person and he's worshiped.

Let's just take all the rumours at face value:

- The dust up with Katich: Pretty clearly that both sides played a part in this, but at the end of the day Katich grabbed the guy around the throat. That's not acceptable in a professional environment. Even if you think Clarke was acting like a complete knob I don't see how you can defend Katich's actions. The Australian cricket team is not a club side and these people aren't teenagers.

- The Symonds bust up: Could Clarke have been vindictive because of women trouble? Sure, he probably was. But Symonds showed up drunk to a game. Hardly Clarke's fault. Cricket Australia deserve much more derision after how they handled Monkey-gate.

- The Hussey boat fiasco: honestly I can't even remember what happened here I've heard so many different things. People hold a grudge because of some social function clash? Move on with your lives and stop acting like 16 year old private school boys. From what I remember of Hussey's account he seemed to be disappointed that it happened but it's not like it was the insult of his life.

- Clarke clashes with CA establishment over selections: Well when you get stuck with Maxwell at three, can you blame him? The Australian selectors haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in the last decade.

- Clarke clashes with CA establishment over fitness: I honestly don't see the issue with Clarke playing in the Adelaide test. It was clearly extraordinary circumstances - the team suffered the death of a player and Clarke wanted to lead the team as captain. He then scored a big 100 and we won the match. As for the World Cup issue - of course he wants to play. It's a home World Cup. I think people underestimate how important the World Cup is to the players because we all think ODIs are less important now. If CA don't think he's fit to play, just rule him out and be done with it. Don't launch a media campaign through orchestrated leaks to undermine him. Just say "We don't think you'll be fit so we're not picking you." End of story. Criticising Clarke for doing everything he can to play in the team is silly.

Anyway, I'm sure people on the other side of the issue have different views on those things. But at the end of the day we've got some personality clashes with team mates (which happens all the time in every sport and should be managed), and a rift with Cricket Australia, which everyone believes is generally inept anyway but for some reason when it's against Clarke they're immediately given the benefit of the doubt.

So either Clarke has had the misfortune of being frequently confronted by arseholes, or he's the a-hole.

 

[The_Reaper]

So either Clarke has had the misfortune of being frequently confronted by arseholes, or he's the a-hole.

There's one common factor in every damaged relationship

Though I still think if he's fit we need him in the test team for the Ashes and that tactically I'd rather him calling the shots in the Ashes than Steve Smith.

surely the team can handle him for 5 more months

 

[The 747]

Happy to tolerate things when we are winning. But the last series he captained we were humiliated and he was terrible - setting stupid fields as a protest is selfish in the extreme. He wasn't fit to play in either game but plays a media game where he dares them to cause a storm by going against his word. Same again in Adelaide.

Then cuts Smiths grass by tweeting comments when he should STFU, winds up commentating to keep himself front and centre.

Now wants us to make allowances for him in the WC, and implied is the threat of a storm during our campaign if they rule him out, in a format he has generally not bothered to play full time for years.

It's not surprising some opinions have changed.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

As was Siddle, Lyon and a few other players - because they wanted to spend the evening together with the team, celebrating the career of one of our all time greats?

It sounds like Siddle and Lyon accepted the explanation, whereas Watson was determined to make it an issue.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

My point is that Clarke was grandstanding and trying to belittle him in front of everyone (umpires, opposition, teammates) whereas Border was doing it just to McDermott as far as he knew. And the difference is Border had the players respect so when he gave a bake the player would cop it, unlike with Clarke.

Grandstanding? What is this?

Basically, it's OK for Border but not OK for Clarke?

Both incidents are absolutely fine. Stop trying to stitch Clarke up for something that's not remotely problematic.

You've already said you think Clarke 'enjoyed the attention' following Hughes' death, so I think it's pretty clear you're not making much effort to be fair-minded.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

What I don't get is I've still never heard a single thing that made me sit up and think, "Wow, Clarke really is a horrible bloke."

Exactly.

It's as though we're just meant to accept that he'a a complete prick because, well, everyone knows he is. Or something.

 

[peternorth]

at least Sweet Jesus you can agree that clarke is all about the clarke brand

 

[Sweet Jesus]

at least Sweet Jesus you can agree that clarke is all about the clarke brand

I think he also likes it when Australia win Test matches. Do you disagree?

 

[Super Hans]

Who was our regular at third man at the time?

Could certainly make the new ball talk..

 

[peternorth]

I think he also likes it when Australia win Test matches. Do you disagree?

so you agree with my post

 

[Sweet Jesus]

so you agree with my post

How's that?

You suggested Clarke only cares about his own brand, whatever that means. More received wisdom.

I'd suggest he's also pretty keen on the side doing well for its own sake.

Some of these criticisms are becoming pretty implausible. He's the captain of his country but only cares about his own brand? Based on what?

 

[peternorth]

How's that?

You suggested Clarke only cares about his own brand, whatever that means. More received wisdom.

I'd suggest he's also pretty keen on the side doing well for its own sake.

Some of these criticisms are becoming pretty implausible. He's the captain of his country but only cares about his own brand? Based on what?

you assumed that i believe he doesnt care about his country. you're starting to look for things to argue about.

 

[King Elvis]

No. I am saying that they were really the only two strongly showing their dislike for Clarke, now it's the other way around for the rest of the community (now most hate him while a few try defend him).

Just have a read through it, I just would like people to be consistent in their love/hate for players.

What about me?!

 

[Sweet Jesus]

you assumed that i believe he doesnt care about his country. you're starting to look for things to argue about.

Huh?

You said he's "all about the Clarke brand" i.e. that's his only concern.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

What I've never quite understood through all of this is the continual inconsistency.

So Clarke is apparently a disgrace for jumping into the commentary box during the test series, yet Shane Watson, who basically waged a one-man lobbying campaign (with the help of some sympathetic journalists) to push for his return to opener while Cowan and Rogers initially struggled, is a great bloke and universally loved?

 

[The 747]

Watson isn't captain so different standards. Warner is an epic knob but again he isn't captain.

 

[The_Reaper]

What I've never quite understood through all of this is the continual inconsistency.

So Clarke is apparently a disgrace for jumping into the commentary box during the test series, yet Shane Watson, who basically waged a one-man lobbying campaign (with the help of some sympathetic journalists) to push for his return to opener while Cowan and Rogers initially struggled, is a great bloke and universally loved?

Watto isn't loved on BF

 

[Mancey]

What I've never quite understood through all of this is the continual inconsistency.

So Clarke is apparently a disgrace for jumping into the commentary box during the test series, yet Shane Watson, who basically waged a one-man lobbying campaign (with the help of some sympathetic journalists) to push for his return to opener while Cowan and Rogers initially struggled, is a great bloke and universally loved?

By who?