Toast Michael "Son Son" Walters

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What's a tougher mountain to climb.

Teaching a highly skilled but low posession player to find more of the ball OR

Teaching a poorly skilled but high posession player to improve their kicking.

Which type ultimatley goes on to have the longer career?
 
sabre_ac said:
What's a tougher mountain to climb.

Teaching a highly skilled but low posession player to find more of the ball OR

Teaching a poorly skilled but high posession player to improve their kicking.

Which type ultimatley goes on to have the longer career?
Click to expand...

I dont think you can teach skills at this age but work effort can be instilled.

Steve johnson and Gary Ablett had dodgy work ethics when they started out but have been turned around.
 
sabre_ac said:
Teaching a poorly skilled but high posession player to improve their kicking.
Click to expand...

Exhibit A: Jobe Watson, was an appalling kick but could run all day.

I think that's what so great about our game; there is room for different contributions from different players. Some rely on engine with mild skills, while some rely on skills with a limited engine and then of course there are complete freaks who have both.
 

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rednblacks said:
Can someone explain where the name Son Son comes from?

This kid has some class and the way he used the ball yesterday is the very reason why Rhys Palmer was dropped to the WAFL. Take note Rhys and work your arse off on your foot skills both left and right or your AFL career will be over in 2 or 3 years.

Give me a player who only gets it 10 times but is effective 8 times out of ten as opposed to someone who gets it 20 times but turns it over 5 + times. It's bad turnovers at crucial times in a match that hurts your team. Last week against NM when we kicked the first 2 goals of the third qtr we had momentum and looked well set up to go forward again when Palmer marked on the wing and went sideways with a 25m pass that was cut off and resulted in a goal. North then kicked the next one also. That cost us any chance of a win.

When we start getting players back i reckon Palmer will be lucky to win his spot back, not just this season but next year also.
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People are going to regret writing Palmer off. If he puts in the effort during the pre-season then he will be back to being one our best players. This is the same guy that finished 4th in the Doig Medal in his inaugural season and won the Rising Star award playing as our number one mid whilst being tagged for the majority of the season.

As a result of his knee reco he is suffering from low confidence and poor fitness. These two aspects were two of his biggest strengths prior to injury. Refer to this post at the end of next season when he is back to being one of our best.
 
only showed he is a good contested mark and set shot for me. he does not do enough of the forward pressure stuff for me. i'm sure he will get better at it and be a part of the team in the future, just hope he takes note of the Murph who can kick goals but didn't do enough of the rest so he will probably be gone as far as afl goes...
 
sabre_ac said:
What's a tougher mountain to climb.

Teaching a highly skilled but low posession player to find more of the ball OR

Teaching a poorly skilled but high posession player to improve their kicking.

Which type ultimatley goes on to have the longer career?
Click to expand...

Player A seems more likely to improve on his weakness and they may not need to improve on it as much as B (i.e. 15 disposals from a low possession, but high impact player like Hill will consistently be more valuable 30 disposals form a high possession, but low impact player like Rosa)

... game sense does tend to improve more with experience and time in an AFL environment than skills in general.

... in terms of value, there would be quite a decent number of examples of player A that go on to become matchwinning players of the competition (Ablett, Goodes, Johnson, Didak etc.) but I can't think of as many examples of player B bar Dane Swan (most others would be tagging or role player types).
 
E Shed said:
His kicking has always been elite. Well ever since I've seen him playing in the WAFL before he played AFL.
Click to expand...
Really?, last game i saw him play in the AFL i remember him having a very high bent armed ball drop, yesterday his ball drop was very low fairly straight armed.
 
DOCKER MAN said:
Really?, last game i saw him play in the AFL i remember him having a very high bent armed ball drop, yesterday his ball drop was very low fairly straight armed.
Click to expand...

I watched him pretty closely in the warmups of the scratch match last year at the start of 2009 and noted at the time that he has the most effortless, natural kicking style of just about anyone bar Hill. You might be thinking of someone else as there has never been anything awkward about the way he kicks, or at least not to my knowledge.
 
E Shed said:
I watched him pretty closely in the warmups of the scratch match last year at the start of 2009 and noted at the time that he has the most effortless, natural kicking style of just about anyone bar Hill. You might be thinking of someone else as there has never been anything awkward about the way he kicks, or at least not to my knowledge.
Click to expand...
yeh might be, had a look at his under 18s video looked better then i remembered
 

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sabre_ac said:
What's a tougher mountain to climb.

Teaching a highly skilled but low posession player to find more of the ball OR

Teaching a poorly skilled but high posession player to improve their kicking.

Which type ultimatley goes on to have the longer career?
Click to expand...

You get the guy who can find the ball but can't kick, and tell him to handball.
 
rednblacks said:
Can someone explain where the name Son Son comes from?

This kid has some class and the way he used the ball yesterday is the very reason why Rhys Palmer was dropped to the WAFL. Take note Rhys and work your arse off on your foot skills both left and right or your AFL career will be over in 2 or 3 years.
Click to expand...

Son son comes from a lullaby, IIRC, that his father made up for him and sang to him, as a child.

Keep the love flowing E-shed, this kid deserves it, I reckon. One of the best kickers of a footy I have ever seen. Was supposed to be a perfect fit for the Eagles in that draft, we took Smith instead. Ironically both have had question marks over their work ethics but both seem to be coming good, in that respect.
 
Im going to go against the grain here and suggest a few pointers for the boy.

Needs to do a hell of a lot more defensively, just a very lazy approach one way at the moment, that's fine if you kick a couple, stands out a whole lot more if you dont work the other way.

Also, whilst his kicking is laser like, it's not always warranted, the best kicks in the game dont try and bullet pass everything, they assess the situation and verify their foot pass accordingly, a weighted ball or a ball chipped into space is a whole lot easier to mark than a bullet humming at you as you run full pelt at the pill?

Might get alot of "ahhhs" from the crowd but you can bet the forward would rather run onto the footy than swallow it.

Were Haselbys hands not so strong it would have burst through, few players are as good overhead as he is.

But he's a natural, with some hard work he could be a very dangerous player.

I'd be trialling him in Rodgers spot over the next preseason, as a potential replacement for the artful dodger and also to improve his defensive game.
 
Can you guys see a workable option with Son-Son and Balla's? Keep SS inside the fwd 50 and let Balla go where he likes? The only issues is then missing some of Balla's defensive pressure if he moves up the ground.

Son-sons looked good on a lead and finished pretty well. More offensive pressure would have helped and I hope they drill that into his head.

Whilst playing back might help his defensive game it might be an expensive lesson to teach! Just would need to weigh that up.
 
Watched the rest fo the game tonight, and he looked very good. Was one of our better players. I certainly wouldn't be against playing him up forward again. Don't know if he performs like that every week, but there's only one way to find out i suppose.
 
the doc said:
Can you guys see a workable option with Son-Son and Balla's? Keep SS inside the fwd 50 and let Balla go where he likes? The only issues is then missing some of Balla's defensive pressure if he moves up the ground.
Click to expand...

Can't see why you couldn't have both of them as part of the forward / midfield rotation. Ballas often goes up the ground and in to the centre and provides valuable run and link up options. Walters offers different attributes but would be just as handy up the ground a bit, can take a grab on the lead, good when the ball is on the ground and I can't think of too many forwards who wouldn't like to be on the end of his passes!
 
the doc said:
Can you guys see a workable option with Son-Son and Balla's? Keep SS inside the fwd 50 and let Balla go where he likes? The only issues is then missing some of Balla's defensive pressure if he moves up the ground.

Son-sons looked good on a lead and finished pretty well. More offensive pressure would have helped and I hope they drill that into his head.

Whilst playing back might help his defensive game it might be an expensive lesson to teach! Just would need to weigh that up.
Click to expand...

Definitely. If Carlton can make Yarran, Betts and Garlett work all in the same forward line then surely we can work with our two.

I think the reason SS wasn't getting a game was more to do with his development and some areas that the coached wanted fixed or worked on rather than because Balla was holding his spot.
 
can we put walters on the wing occassionally? i am drooling thinking of Pav/Kepler/Hase/Ballantyne getting that kind of delivery from Walters and Hill!
 
rednblacks said:
Can someone explain where the name Son Son comes from?

This kid has some class and the way he used the ball yesterday is the very reason why Rhys Palmer was dropped to the WAFL. Take note Rhys and work your arse off on your foot skills both left and right or your AFL career will be over in 2 or 3 years.

Give me a player who only gets it 10 times but is effective 8 times out of ten as opposed to someone who gets it 20 times but turns it over 5 + times. It's bad turnovers at crucial times in a match that hurts your team. Last week against NM when we kicked the first 2 goals of the third qtr we had momentum and looked well set up to go forward again when Palmer marked on the wing and went sideways with a 25m pass that was cut off and resulted in a goal. North then kicked the next one also. That cost us any chance of a win.

When we start getting players back i reckon Palmer will be lucky to win his spot back, not just this season but next year also.
Click to expand...

So you value a player who turns it over 20% of the time much higher than one who turns it over 25% of the time. fair enough. But the 7 extra effective disposals certainly make a difference. Good coaching will be able to utilise both of those hypothetical players well in what their tasks are out on the ground, and get better workrate from them in the longterm.
 
rednblacks said:
Can someone explain where the name Son Son comes from?

This kid has some class and the way he used the ball yesterday is the very reason why Rhys Palmer was dropped to the WAFL. Take note Rhys and work your arse off on your foot skills both left and right or your AFL career will be over in 2 or 3 years.

Give me a player who only gets it 10 times but is effective 8 times out of ten as opposed to someone who gets it 20 times but turns it over 5 + times. It's bad turnovers at crucial times in a match that hurts your team. Last week against NM when we kicked the first 2 goals of the third qtr we had momentum and looked well set up to go forward again when Palmer marked on the wing and went sideways with a 25m pass that was cut off and resulted in a goal. North then kicked the next one also. That cost us any chance of a win.

When we start getting players back i reckon Palmer will be lucky to win his spot back, not just this season but next year also.
Click to expand...

This is a pretty s**t post on multiple levels
 
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