Midfield accountability

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scottywiper

scottywiper

Brownlow Medallist
Veteran 10k Posts
May 8, 2003
21,063
31,000
Hamish Paradise
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Islanders, Nuggets
Was just chatting to a member of the media, who said the Champion Data stats glaringly show our lack of midfield accountability. Because our mids don't defend we are allowing the opposition to enter their forward 50 way too easily and too deeply. When we launch our rebound from close to goal, we are very ineffective, but the stats show when we rebound from further out around 50, we are deadly.
 
Balance is all wrong. Too big, too slow in the middle. We should have rebalanced and played guys with less ability but enough speed and pace. The whole Cunnington not playing well with Swallow thing is a good example. We don't need 6 slow crash and bash footballers in there. Pick the best 3 and piss off the rest. And when I say best 3 I mean the best 3 now - not 3 years ago.

We struggle to apply pressure, the only guy I see busting his arse to chase and hit tackles is Ziebell - which is a bit of an issue because he's not fast enough to do it.
 
scottywiper said:
Was just chatting to a member of the media, who said the Champion Data stats glaringly show our lack of midfield accountability. Because our mids don't defend we are allowing the opposition to enter their forward 50 way too easily and too deeply. When we launch our rebound from close to goal, we are very ineffective, but the stats show when we rebound from further out around 50, we are deadly.
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I don't think we require data to back this up. It's glaringly obvious. And being fair to the likes of Scott, we haven't had the draft picks to get the quality players we need to address this. We've no pace which means you can't sprint back and fill holes or run and create options the other way. Our only chance is to out muscle sides or sides that like us have no speed.
 

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Yep has been a problem for a long time, our mids are all one way and it was evident in the first half of the Sydney game, I watched them closely and the mids jogged to defence but sprinted when we had the ball going forward. All comes back to coaching and recruiting
 
naturally north said:
I don't think we require data to back this up. It's glaringly obvious. And being fair to the likes of Scott, we haven't had the draft picks to get the quality players we need to address this. We've no pace which means you can't sprint back and fill holes or run and create options the other way. Our only chance is to out muscle sides or sides that like us have no speed.
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Amazing how fast some of our mids look when they have the ball and then without it, the complete opposite. They just stood around and watched the opposition run away from stoppages.
 
SugarKayneTrain said:
This is just my opinion, but, letting Greenwood go whilst recruiting Waite is the worst decision the club has made in a long time
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oranges and apples....greenwood didnt go due to waite coming in.....

i just feel like the whole team is out of form all at the same time.
 
Too many blokes not wanting or not able to gut run defensively. I would guess that most of the review will consist of blokes being asked why they were so far out of the supposed defensive set up.

Lazy *ers
 
Hojuman said:
Levi took 7 seasons to finally have a good season. We can't wait that long.

Fwd. accountability is just as bad. We can't keep it in there. How many games have we all watched and you tear your hair out as is it swept out of there so easily.
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So much this.
It's like we concede that they're going to bring it out. Surely we're not trying to turn the ball over in our defensive end and score on the rebound?? I get that works well but surely when you have the ball in your forward half the best thing is to keep it there.

If I didn't know better I'd swear they are deliberately letting the ball out easier on purpose. I know that would open up our forward line for our talls but that would just be silly right??
 
Been saying for a long time we need to play 1v1 to highlight who is not working hard enough, because we play this crappy zone which doesn't work and we have a lot of players pointing for others to fill holes rather than make the effort to chase and tackle.

We have too many players jogging back the other way rather than sprinting to lay a tackle. We have too many players clustered too close together and aren't making an attempt to zone, press or be accountable for their man, we have too many players who are prepared to sag off 10-15m off their man and allow them to receive an uncontested mark and easy possession due to the latitude they give their direct opponent.

We don't have that defensive mindset of preventing possession or putting the opposition under a lot of pressure, we were cones out there yesterday, glorified cones. We tackle at the stoppages but when the ball is in motion we are shizenhousen.
 
Tas said:
Been saying for a long time we need to play 1v1 to highlight who is not working hard enough, because we play this crappy zone which doesn't work and we have a lot of players pointing for others to fill holes rather than make the effort to chase and tackle.

We have too many players jogging back the other way rather than sprinting to lay a tackle. We have too many players clustered too close together and aren't making an attempt to zone, press or be accountable for their man, we have too many players who are prepared to sag off 10-15m off their man and allow them to receive an uncontested mark and easy possession due to the latitude they give their direct opponent.

We don't have that defensive mindset of preventing possession or putting the opposition under a lot of pressure, we were cones out there yesterday, glorified cones. We tackle at the stoppages but when the ball is in motion we are shizenhousen.
Click to expand...

Zone football is heaven for unaccountable footballers
 

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Watch the Saints, Pies and the Dogs, drafted run and they are building. Why? Because people get sucked into this "we look quick with the ball" crap. Most players do, it is what happens without the ball, which is 95% of the time that affects the game.

I stated it in another thread, head of list management should go. Poor execution equals a pink slip, just as in any other job.

Most players these days are within 5 or 10% of the contested ability of our best but with a 30-40% advantage in skill and speed.
 
Moti said:
Watch the Saints, Pies and the Dogs, drafted run and they are building. Why? Because people get sucked into this "we look quick with the ball" crap. Most players do, it is what happens without the ball, which is 95% of the time that affects the game.

I stated it in another thread, head of list management should go. Poor execution equals a pink slip, just as in any other job.

Most players these days are within 5 or 10% of the contested ability of our best but with a 30-40% advantage in skill and speed.
Click to expand...

You need speed, run and contested ball in the one player. We have Sam Gibson or Jack Ziebell.
 
What annoys me the most is seeing 3 North players going for the same ball, fumbling it and then seeing it come out the back to an unmarked opposition player who is then off with the ball with teammates running free.
 
This isn't a knee-jerk opinion as I've been mulling this over for awhile but doesn't it appear that our midfield is about six or seven years too late? Back in 2007 and 2008 as the game just started to really evolve quickly (Clarko's cluster to forward press to slingshot) our midfielders would've been perfect. Inside grunt, outside flair.

In 2015, if you're one or the other, you're nothing. You need to be both and you need to work defensively. Cunnington, Ziebell, and Swallow are far too slow and this results in easy spread away from the stoppages for the opposition.

Also, our midfield has been consistently outplayed with the simple trick of the opposition playing a loose man. We often win the stoppages, but it is a nothing win with a hack kick forward that then advantages the opposition as they outnumber us where the ball lands and our midfield cannot work with their direct opponent as they spread from the turnover. While on the subject of turnovers, Swallow - a champion when at his best - too often mucks a simple 25m kick that turns an open forward into a 50-50 contest, or worse, goes over his head for a quick turnover and an easy sweep up the other end for the opposition (Gibson is another habitual offender). Haven't kept an actual count, but it happened once last night and also has happened on several other occasions this year. Those turnovers just kill you as the midfield works hard to create space and then all of a sudden, their opponents have 5 metre gaps which we cannot close.

Up the other end, if we move our +1 from the stoppage to a kick behind play the opposition works to ensure that Hansen is not loose and is accountable, leaving Firrito, McMahon or someone of that type loose. Hansen's man works away from the straight kick to ensure he is accountable and as we've seen Hansen is average in the one-on-one. His opponent - Luke Russell - killed us in the opening quarter.

Lastly, we all know Harvey is a legend, but we also all know he's happiest working forward and a reluctant defensive worker. When Scott didn't nip this in the bud and make an example of him back when he took the reins in 2010 it allowed the idea that it is okay to "chase hard and not really move" (see Waite for a perfect example of someone looking like they're busting a gut chasing but never actually catching anyone).
 
While I don't think having Greenwood would be the difference this season, he was the one onballer we had who had both the endurance and pace to run both ways effectively.
 
TennisPlayerAndy said:
There is no accountability across the entire club.
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But but we won finals from 6th last year and and you're a heretic if you didn't like them.


Forget that we dropped games we shouldn't have and could have been top 4.

On this year we are so s**t it's not funny.

Right now winning games in 2015 gets us no closer to a flag.

Cycle through any unknown quantity on the list for the remaining games.

Brads first meeting this morning should be with Maj and BBB, boys forward line is on you for the rest of the year, take it and really see what you can do.
 
THRILLHO said:
This isn't a knee-jerk opinion as I've been mulling this over for awhile but doesn't it appear that our midfield is about six or seven years too late? Back in 2007 and 2008 as the game just started to really evolve quickly (Clarko's cluster to forward press to slingshot) our midfielders would've been perfect. Inside grunt, outside flair.

In 2015, if you're one or the other, you're nothing. You need to be both and you need to work defensively. Cunnington, Ziebell, and Swallow are far too slow and this results in easy spread away from the stoppages for the opposition.

Also, our midfield has been consistently outplayed with the simple trick of the opposition playing a loose man. We often win the stoppages, but it is a nothing win with a hack kick forward that then advantages the opposition as they outnumber us where the ball lands and our midfield cannot work with their direct opponent as they spread from the turnover. While on the subject of turnovers, Swallow - a champion when at his best - too often mucks a simple 25m kick that turns an open forward into a 50-50 contest, or worse, goes over his head for a quick turnover and an easy sweep up the other end for the opposition (Gibson is another habitual offender). Haven't kept an actual count, but it happened once last night and also has happened on several other occasions this year. Those turnovers just kill you as the midfield works hard to create space and then all of a sudden, their opponents have 5 metre gaps which we cannot close.

Up the other end, if we move our +1 from the stoppage to a kick behind play the opposition works to ensure that Hansen is not loose and is accountable, leaving Firrito, McMahon or someone of that type loose. Hansen's man works away from the straight kick to ensure he is accountable and as we've seen Hansen is average in the one-on-one. His opponent - Luke Russell - killed us in the opening quarter.

Lastly, we all know Harvey is a legend, but we also all know he's happiest working forward and a reluctant defensive worker. When Scott didn't nip this in the bud and make an example of him back when he took the reins in 2010 it allowed the idea that it is okay to "chase hard and not really move" (see Waite for a perfect example of someone looking like they're busting a gut chasing but never actually catching anyone).
Click to expand...
Nailed it re the defensive liability that is our current midfield group. We need to get new blood in through the rotations, blood that can run both ways. Macmillan, Atley, McDonald and Mullett need to be rotated through for the good of the team.
 
It's hard to have that back and forward workrate when we have poor runners like Ziebell and Cunnington. We really miss Adams and his ability to play forward and as a genuine centre square mid
 
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