Milne charged

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ike2112 said:
To be honest, what annoys me a lot about that article is making associations, and wording someone's opinion as if it's fact. You're doing the latter here yourself, for an opposite outcome.
Milne may or may not be guilty of rape, but he is still guilty by his own admission of what some might consider inappropriate behavior. So he sure as hell ain't whiter than white. So I don't put a great deal of merit in statements that point to him as an outright victim.
I'd rather just find out the detail of what happened and make a reasonable judgement on whether he deserved jail - I hope the court case sorts that, and I can then consider in my own mind, and decide for myself what I think of him and his actions.

The fundraising... well it's more bad publicity for the club, but I understand that if the funds are getting low and players have put in what they can, they will have been rubbing shoulders with these 'monied' folk and maybe think it is worth those who were happy to have Milne at their functions, give something to help him if they want and can. Of course the cliff-face, for club, players and those who pay into his fund.... if it turns out he's a rapist, then you're donating money to one.

PS. You do as a player, or I did in my sport, feel taken advantage of during the brief period everyone wants to be 'your pal'. Even fans make you feel that way. I had a very brief shot at big-time in my sport, kind of like a 6-months on the rookie list. And I was hurt by how some fans reacted, and how I wasn't even able to then buy a seat at a sponsor dinner that I wanted to attend as a guest, when 5 months earlier I had to stand for an hour for photos. I was a nobody though; God knows how I'd feel if I did that for 12 years and was top of the sport, then everyone gave me the cold shoulder. Course I wasn't in a situation like Milne though!
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I am in no way inferring Milne is innocent or guilty, I wouldn't presume to do that, and if you think I have, I suggest you read my post again. Partner swapping and group sex (which is what Milne believes he was engaging in) isn't necessarily the most intelligent thing to be doing, but it also isn't in any way shape or form illegal. It is also not illegal to use your available resources to mount a case in your own defense, regardless of the media or public reaction.

I'm not a lawyer or a judge, and I don't have all the facts, so I am making no presumptions of innocence or guilt personally, I am only presenting my opinion on the facts I have to hand.
 
May I suggest that when presenting your opinion, you don't use a statement such as "when the reality is in fact very different."

Perhaps "the reality is still not known by more than at most probably 4 people, and in my opinion based on the information available to us, doesn't appear to deserve such an inflammatory burn-the-house-down article".
 
ike2112 said:
May I suggest that when presenting your opinion, you don't use a statement such as "when the reality is in fact very different."

Perhaps "the reality is still not known by more than at most probably 4 people, and in my opinion based on the information available to us, doesn't appear to deserve such an inflammatory burn-the-house-down article".
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Don't be pedantic, it's fairly obvious what my intention was when making that statement. " in fact" was meant to modify or contradict the previous statement, not in it's alternate usage as a synonym of "truth".

Happy?
 

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You would have to think that their has been a plea agreement made, for Milne to plead guilty to this. With the length of time, dismissal of rape charges, you would have to think that any punishment would be a suspended sentence. As someone much wiser than me said, a deal was offered, as the police case was weak to non existent, so a deal was brokered, in which Milne escapes imprisonment and the police save face (even if only partially).
 
Sunshine Saint said:
You would have to think that their has been a plea agreement made, for Milne to plead guilty to this. With the length of time, dismissal of rape charges, you would have to think that any punishment would be a suspended sentence. As someone much wiser than me said, a deal was offered, as the police case was weak to non existent, so a deal was brokered, in which Milne escapes imprisonment and the police save face (even if only partially).
Click to expand...

Without knowing any more about the case than what I've read here, or in the newspapers, I tend to agree. Strange though that the case was judged strong enough to go to trial, and yet now after so long it suddenly comes to a close.

I'm thinking the case was weak, and by anecdotal evidence you hear just how difficult it is to prove a rape case anyway, let alone one that was alleged to have been committed 10 years ago.

Any news as to when the sentencing is? I didn't see that in the article above.
 
1271005201000.jpg

NO HE ISNT !!!!!!
So you can apologise now Mick you grumpy old turd.
 

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Wright 1 said:
Charges have been dropped against Milney according to SEN news.
Good on ya Milney. I think he and his family have been punished enough
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from what i read, only the rape charges, he pleaded guilty to indecent assault.
 
sammm said:
from what i read, only the rape charges, he pleaded guilty to indecent assault.
Click to expand...
Correct! I know next to nothing about the legal process, but they mentioned the upcoming court date in past tense. IE: That it is no longer. Is a court appearance mandatory for indecent assault? Would have been 100 charges of it on the Gold Coast during schoolies week surely??
 
Sunshine Saint said:
You would have to think that their has been a plea agreement made, for Milne to plead guilty to this. With the length of time, dismissal of rape charges, you would have to think that any punishment would be a suspended sentence. As someone much wiser than me said, a deal was offered, as the police case was weak to non existent, so a deal was brokered, in which Milne escapes imprisonment and the police save face (even if only partially).
Click to expand...

Suspended sentences were abolished in Victoria on September 1.

If Milne is given a prison term, he has no alternative but to serve it.
 
No winners.

Hope the victim has some peace now.

Never understood those screaming that word though, not at all justified. Even if it was only because you could of been sitting near a sexual assault victim, who didn't need to hear that word at the footy over and over (yes, it happened, and they stopped going)

Also never understood those defending him simply because of footy tribalism, and because he played for St Kilda.
 
To be fair, MS, some people were defending him because they actually thought he was innocent.
 
Milney obviously had to do a deal to finish the matter. The cost of a trial would be a factor. I feel sorry for the victim, but sometimes, in the eye of the jury it is not rape. Another case involving a St Kilda player went to a jury and he was acquitted on what looked a stronger case. Milne would not have been convicted of rape and might have been convicted of indecent assault, so it is a fair cop.
It is a pity the old fashioned police way was to hide it rather than deal with it at the time.
I saw Neil Mitchell on the 9 news and he does not acknowledge any of this. he just says Milne should have pleaded guilty 10 years ago, as if. What a lightweight intellect. Milne did not have to plead 10 years ago, because the matter did not proceed 10 years ago.
Milne is a guy who now has a chance to move on with his family and I hope the victim has some level of closure.
 
fpm84 said:
Suspended sentences were abolished in Victoria on September 1.

If Milne is given a prison term, he has no alternative but to serve it.
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Incorrect. Milne could and would argue that any sentence he receives would have been subject to a suspended sentence at the time he was charged and, as a result, would be an appropriate sentence now.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
The rumours suggest that Milne at the worst committed sexual assault , in that he "got a feel by deception" for want of a more correct way of saying it. Apart from these rumours there have been no other suggestions that Milne is subject to habitual bad behaviour.

In some other rape cases people are subjected to the full sex act without the victim consenting in any way. This could make it difficult to others who would need to work with such a person, given they had just witnessed the impact on the victim.

Because of the different circumstances that can occur I don't think its a simple rule that the club should respond the same way for every player charged with a criminal offense, though people who tend to over simplify everything probably think they should.

However?
They have come up with 4 charges, which suggests there may be something over and above the rumours. ( or they are trying to do the cascading charges thing, hoping that he'll plea bargain his way into a lesser charge ). It seems that the alleged victim has always remained clear that she wanted Milne prosecuted. You'd think that she has been deeply offended, more than what the rumours would suggest she should be.
Click to expand...

Good point SS, you worked it out a year and a half ago, you are no doubt quite intelligent. It's good to see that sense has finally been made of all this.

Now what sentence can we expect?
http://www.judicialcollege.vic.edu.au/eManuals/SAM/index.htm#38317.htm

20.4.12 - Mitigating factors
In sentencing an offender, a court must have regard to any mitigating factors of the offence. It is the duty of an offender to prove the existence of mitigating factors on the balance of probabilities.

It is important to note that the presence of mitigating factors cannot be removed, or cancelled out, or outweighed, by the presence of aggravating factors. A discount must still be given in those circumstances.

Examples of mitigating factors

Mitigating factors relevant to sentencing may include the following -

  • plea of guilty
  • genuine remorse exhibited by an offender
  • excessive delay
  • exceptional hardship suffered by an offender
  • good rehabilitative prospects of an offender
  • youthfulness of an offender
  • the advanced years of an offender
  • informing on other co-offenders
  • co-operation with law enforcement authorities
  • admissions to investigating police in record of interview
  • voluntary confession to undetected offences
  • previous good character of an offender
  • indirect consequences of conviction
  • summary punishment already suffered by an offender
________________________________________________

I'd say that Milne has ticked most of the relevant mitigating factors.
So the question would be, "why put a guy in jail when he hasn't put a foot wrong in the last decade"

___________________________________-

Sentencing purposes

The sentencing purposes of protection of the community, general deterrence and just punishment assume special significance in the sentencing of an offender for the offence of rape or indecent assault. The sentencing purpose of rehabilitation of an offender is correspondingly subordinated to the aforementioned sentencing purposes.

Gravity of offence

The gravity of an offence may be determined by an assessment of the particular features of an offence, including -

  • the level of planning involved
  • the location at which the offence was committed
  • the violence used in the commission of the offence
  • the presence of weapons used to subdue the victim
  • the use of drugs or alcohol to secure the submission of the victim
  • threats and gratuitous personal abuse directed towards the victim
  • the nature of the acts committed by the offender
  • the duration of the offence
  • the number of offenders involved
  • whether the offence was committed in the presence of other persons
  • the age of the victim
  • the relationship between the offender and the victim
  • the vulnerability of the victim
  • the harm caused to the victim as a result of the offence
  • the conduct of the victim prior to the offence.
    Personal history of an offender
The personal history of an offender is relevant to an assessment of an appropriate sentence for an offence, including -

  • criminal history of an offender
  • moral culpability of an offender
  • motive of the offender
  • the method used by the offender in committing the offence
  • the mental state of the offender
  • the conduct of the offender after the offence
  • exhibition of remorse.
______________________________
No planning, a bedroom, no violence, no weapons, alcohol present but not in that context, no threats or abuse, relatively short term, no personal history ( or recurrences given the decade that has lapsed).

You don't need to be a legal expert to see that Milne is at the absolute bottom level for this sort of crime.
________________________________________________

20.7.2 - Imprisonment
A sentence of imprisonment is a sentence of last resort. A court must not impose a sentence of imprisonment upon an offender unless it considers that no other sentence is appropriate.

In imposing a sentence of imprisonment, a court is not required to provide reasons for the rejection of all other alternative sentences provided that the sentencing comments make it clear that consideration has been given to all other alternative sentences.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Good point SS, you worked it out a year and a half ago, you are no doubt quite intelligent. It's good to see that sense has finally been made of all this.

Now what sentence can we expect?
http://www.judicialcollege.vic.edu.au/eManuals/SAM/index.htm#38317.htm

20.4.12 - Mitigating factors
In sentencing an offender, a court must have regard to any mitigating factors of the offence. It is the duty of an offender to prove the existence of mitigating factors on the balance of probabilities.

It is important to note that the presence of mitigating factors cannot be removed, or cancelled out, or outweighed, by the presence of aggravating factors. A discount must still be given in those circumstances.

Examples of mitigating factors

Mitigating factors relevant to sentencing may include the following -

  • plea of guilty
  • genuine remorse exhibited by an offender
  • excessive delay
  • exceptional hardship suffered by an offender
  • good rehabilitative prospects of an offender
  • youthfulness of an offender
  • the advanced years of an offender
  • informing on other co-offenders
  • co-operation with law enforcement authorities
  • admissions to investigating police in record of interview
  • voluntary confession to undetected offences
  • previous good character of an offender
  • indirect consequences of conviction
  • summary punishment already suffered by an offender
________________________________________________

I'd say that Milne has ticked most of the relevant mitigating factors.
So the question would be, "why put a guy in jail when he hasn't put a foot wrong in the last decade"

___________________________________-

Sentencing purposes

The sentencing purposes of protection of the community, general deterrence and just punishment assume special significance in the sentencing of an offender for the offence of rape or indecent assault. The sentencing purpose of rehabilitation of an offender is correspondingly subordinated to the aforementioned sentencing purposes.

Gravity of offence

The gravity of an offence may be determined by an assessment of the particular features of an offence, including -

  • the level of planning involved
  • the location at which the offence was committed
  • the violence used in the commission of the offence
  • the presence of weapons used to subdue the victim
  • the use of drugs or alcohol to secure the submission of the victim
  • threats and gratuitous personal abuse directed towards the victim
  • the nature of the acts committed by the offender
  • the duration of the offence
  • the number of offenders involved
  • whether the offence was committed in the presence of other persons
  • the age of the victim
  • the relationship between the offender and the victim
  • the vulnerability of the victim
  • the harm caused to the victim as a result of the offence
  • the conduct of the victim prior to the offence.
    Personal history of an offender
The personal history of an offender is relevant to an assessment of an appropriate sentence for an offence, including -

  • criminal history of an offender
  • moral culpability of an offender
  • motive of the offender
  • the method used by the offender in committing the offence
  • the mental state of the offender
  • the conduct of the offender after the offence
  • exhibition of remorse.
______________________________
No planning, a bedroom, no violence, no weapons, alcohol present but not in that context, no threats or abuse, relatively short term, no personal history ( or recurrences given the decade that has lapsed).

You don't need to be a legal expert to see that Milne is at the absolute bottom level for this sort of crime.
________________________________________________

20.7.2 - Imprisonment
A sentence of imprisonment is a sentence of last resort. A court must not impose a sentence of imprisonment upon an offender unless it considers that no other sentence is appropriate.

In imposing a sentence of imprisonment, a court is not required to provide reasons for the rejection of all other alternative sentences provided that the sentencing comments make it clear that consideration has been given to all other alternative sentences.
Click to expand...
This is a really insightful summary. Thank you from Hobart
 
The age is suggesting a fine only...
 
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