Most All-Australian Selections

[Baudolino]

Is anyone able to clarify what the official record for most All Australian selections actually is? The AA Wikipedia page and a number of other sources I have read state that the record is held by Harvey, Ricciuto and Ablett Jnr, with 8 apiece, but the AFL website and other media outlet claim that with tonight's selection Ablett Jnr "joins his father Gary Snr and four other players with eight selections. Five players have nine." Which information is correct? Are afl.com.au counting VFL Team of the Year selections or something else I'm missing? And do the official records consider the All Australian team a continuation of the carnival era, as suggested by wiki and others?

 

[the croucher]

Is anyone able clarify what the official record for most All Australian selections actually is? The AA Wikipedia page and a number of other sources I have read state that the record is held by Harvey, Ricciuto and Ablett Jnr, with 8 apiece, but the AFL website and other media outlet claim that with tonight's selection Ablett Jnr "joins his father Gary Snr and four other players with eight selections. Five players have nine." Which information is correct? Are afl.com.au counting VFL Team of the Year selections or something else I'm missing? And do the official records consider the All Australian team a continuation of the carnival era, as suggested by wiki and others?

Harvey, Ricciuto and Ablett jnr with 8 is the correct information.
Very gullible (or in some cases perhaps sloppy research) media repeating "official" version put out by AFL, that body perhaps being too embarrassed to admit errors in fact & interpretation.

As you would undoubtedly know, for the years when an AA team is named, there is only one team per year -and the number of players in team reflects size of sides at the time, thus earlier ones have 20 names, now they have 22.
As one example, there was no AA team chosen in 1984, yet AFL count VFL Team of Year players, PLUS the 25 named in the inaugural "International Rules" squad, leading to extraordinary situation where the AFL Record Season Guide lists 40 players as AA for 1984 !!

Here are a couple of items highlighting true history of AA:
The News (Adelaide) 9 March 1953 page 19 includes this article stating that the first AA team will be chosen after Carnival in Adelaide.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/134288980

Football Record for Round 22 1991 (August 16,17,18) includes on page 3 the editorial which begins: "An AFL All Australian team will be named for the first time this year following a decision taken by the AFL Commission earlier this week."
http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/129699

 

[My North]

how many All Australia teams will Gary Ablett jur be in? amazing record

 

[SJ]

I think when, for example, assessing Gary Ablett Senior's record, you need to include VFL Team of the Year selections as AFL All Australian selections. It is exactly the same.

Not combining the two would be akin to saying Mark Thompson only played in one flag (skipping 1984 and 1985 VFL flags).

 

[TN25]

how many All Australia teams will Gary Ablett jur be in? amazing record

Could easily play another five years and I would think he would get AA each year. The fact that he could miss seven games and still make AA in a tough year for midfielders is amazing

 

[Baudolino]

Harvey, Ricciuto and Ablett jnr with 8 is the correct information.
Very gullible (or in some cases perhaps sloppy research) media repeating "official" version put out by AFL, that body perhaps being too embarrassed to admit errors in fact & interpretation.

As you would undoubtedly know, for the years when an AA team is named, there is only one team per year -and the number of players in team reflects size of sides at the time, thus earlier ones have 20 names, now they have 22.
As one example, there was no AA team chosen in 1984, yet AFL count VFL Team of Year players, PLUS the 25 named in the inaugural "International Rules" squad, leading to extraordinary situation where the AFL Record Season Guide lists 40 players as AA for 1984 !!

Here are a couple of items highlighting true history of AA:
The News (Adelaide) 9 March 1953 page 19 includes this article stating that the first AA team will be chosen after Carnival in Adelaide.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/134288980

Football Record for Round 22 1991 (August 16,17,18) includes on page 3 the editorial which begins: "An AFL All Australian team will be named for the first time this year following a decision taken by the AFL Commission earlier this week."
http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/129699

Interesting.

To clarify, though, is this your subjective opinion on what the official record should be, or is it a descriptive account of what the record actually is? From what I can surmise, there were numerous occasions during the 80s where there was a VFL Team of the Year and a Carnival team named in the same year. Since it would be nonsensical to have more than one "official" team per year, the Carnival team and the VFL team must be seen as mutually exclusive; in other words, only one of them can be seen as the official progenitor of the current AA format.

So the real question is, is the AA team, under its current format, a continuation of the Carnival series teams, or is it a continuation of the VFL Team of the Year?

 

[the croucher]

I think when, for example, assessing Gary Ablett Senior's record, you need to include VFL Team of the Year selections as AFL All Australian selections. It is exactly the same.

Not combining the two would be akin to saying Mark Thompson only played in one flag (skipping 1984 and 1985 VFL flags).

All Australian teams between 1953 and 1988 were chosen from players who had played in a combined team representing a state or association in match or matches against similarly selected elite-level sides. VFL teams of the year were selected from players at club level participating in a local league. AA (Carnivals era) - VFL t.o.y. = different level - it is not the same.

...and what are you on about with the Mark Thompson comment - he played in three senior flags (2 VFL, 1 AFL)

 

[the croucher]

Interesting.

To clarify, though, is this your subjective opinion on what the official record should be, or is it a descriptive account of what the record actually is? From what I can surmise, there were numerous occasions during the 80s where there was a VFL Team of the Year and a Carnival team named in the same year. Since it would be nonsensical to have more than one "official" team per year, the Carnival team and the VFL team must be seen as mutually exclusive; in other words, only one of them can be seen as the official progenitor of the current AA format.

So the real question is, is the AA team, under its current format, a continuation of the Carnival series teams, or is it a continuation of the VFL Team of the Year?

AA 1953 - 1988 (Carnivals era) - players chosen from "state" teams, mostly mid-season.
AA 1991- 2014 (AFL era) - players chosen from clubs in a "national" level comp near end of season.

Perhaps the records should be listed as two separate eras.

If VFL Team of Year qualifies a player as AA, then all those chosen in Teams of Year from other local comps also qualify don't they ?

 

[SJ]

All Australian teams between 1953 and 1988 were chosen from players who had played in a combined team representing a state or association in match or matches against similarly selected elite-level sides. VFL teams of the year were selected from players at club level participating in a local league. AA (Carnivals era) - VFL t.o.y. = different level - it is not the same.

...and what are you on about with the Mark Thompson comment - he played in three senior flags (2 VFL, 1 AFL)

Umm...