MVP Tommy Boyd - The Grand Final Enigma

[maddog37]

As soon as he learns to lead he will kill them.

 

[Leezorr]

Loving him atm, should have had a couple last week too, but shanked the kicks which is really rare for him. He is really offering us something i haven't seen in a forward at the dogs ever, pack marking, goal kicking monster. and he just keeps getting better, i think we will see that break out game sooner rather than later.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

As soon as he learns to lead he will kill them.

With defensive zoning and all that the traditional full-forward who takes marks on the lead is slowly dying, and isn't as important for young blokes like Boyd. Fev was pretty much the last of the pure full-forwards.

 

[maddog37]

With defensive zoning and all that the traditional full-forward who takes marks on the lead is slowly dying, and isn't as important for young blokes like Boyd. Fev was pretty much the last of the pure full-forwards.

Not saying he has to lead all of the time but he needs to mix it up and he isn't leading enough at present IMHO.

 

[Lex22]

I think once the majority of our side gets its strength and fitness levels (Tom included) at elite levels then we'll see him given more space and hence lead at the ball carrier more. At the moment we're forced to "stack" our forward line quite a bit in order to give him more a chop out and keep the ball in there. It's clever by Beveridge; ie not overburding big Tom and helping along whilst he develops and give him a few minutes in the ruck just to keep him involved and get his confidence up. In another 50-60 games I wouldn't be surprised if we isolate him more and have the midget brigade come in front and centre when the ball's arial to rove the pack. Rotate that with Stringer and always having one of them push up with Crameri as the 3rd option will make us extremely hard to defend.

 

[TBOW]

Thought he was enormous yesterday, don't like him pinch hitting in the ruck as he gets too tired to compete up forward.

Maybe we are just doing this to get him a tank, when he does look out the Boyd Train will be unstoppable!

Yep, don't think we should view him as a relief ruckman.

In games like Sundays (and dare I say finals), when he is in the ruck we look about as dangerous as a warm lettuce (to misquote Keating) going forward.

Unless we get another aerial threat down there he needs to be forward permanently.

 

[stefoid]

I still think that Tom, by necessity for various reasons, is playing the long target role that is something of a waste of his talents. We need someone to play that role - its working well for us, but it could be played by someone else.

i.e. If we got a big dude like Levi Casboult and planted him in the goal square would he be any worse at that role? He would have 3.8 instead of 8.3, yes, but in terms of offering a long target who competes well in the air and creates opportunities? I dont think so.

Then we have Tom freed up to start 40m out from goal and offer us a mobile marking platform around the ground and a nice deadly long kick for goal as well. That would be something!

 

[TBOW]

I still think that Tom, by necessity for various reasons, is playing the long target role that is something of a waste of his talents. We need someone to play that role - its working well for us, but it could be played by someone else.

i.e. If we got a big dude like Levi Casboult and planted him in the goal square would he be any worse at that role? He would have 3.8 instead of 8.3, yes, but in terms of offering a long target who competes well in the air and creates opportunities? I dont think so.

Then we have Tom freed up to start 40m out from goal and offer us a mobile marking platform around the ground and a nice deadly long kick for goal as well. That would be something!

Heresy to mention those two in the same sentence.

What we have in Boyd is a forward who knows how to read the play and constantly contest, even if he is out of position, out numbered, and out on his feet.

Casboult is Liam Jones type who can clunk a big mark if he happens to be in the right spot with a clean run and everything goes right.

Maybe we're a little bit spoilt with Tom, but these Casboult/Jones types can be huge liabilities unless they develop consistent effort and game awareness.

 

[Mofra]

Maybe we're a little bit spoilt with Tom, but these Casboult/Jones types can be huge liabilities unless they develop consistent effort and game awareness.

There is no way in hell Casboult (or Jones) would get to the contest and bring the ball to ground against two defenders the way Tom regularly does.
I watched Tom's work off the ball even when he was up the ground on Sunday and his ability to make multiple leads and get to the fall of the ball is outstanding.

 

[Zgope1]

I can't think of a structural play as efficient and consistent as Boyd creating an even contest i50 does for us. Maybe hawthorns ability to get hill and smith into paddocks?

 

[Gmod23]

At the start of the last term, when the kick bypassed Tom for Dickson, he can be seen applauding the kicker.
His marking and spoiling is so good for someone so young. He is better than even I thought he would be at this age.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

There is no way in hell Casboult (or Jones) would get to the contest and bring the ball to ground against two defenders the way Tom regularly does.
I watched Tom's work off the ball even when he was up the ground on Sunday and his ability to make multiple leads and get to the fall of the ball is outstanding.

One criticism I have of Boyd is that he works so hard to get to the drop of the ball that quite often he stops working when the ball bounces before him - he's a bit reactionary and often the defence then pounces on the 50/50 ball before he does. It was most noticeable against Rance, he won pretty much every 50/50 ground ball when the kick to Boyd wasn't perfect.

 

[Butane]

One criticism I have of Boyd is that he works so hard to get to the drop of the ball that quite often he stops working when the ball bounces before him - he's a bit reactionary and often the defence then pounces on the 50/50 ball before he does. It was most noticeable against Rance, he won pretty much every 50/50 ground ball when the kick to Boyd wasn't perfect.

Agree with this. He does a lot of the hard work and then fumbles the easy part and has little second effort. This is only a minor problem at the moment in his development, I've more than happy with his first 7 games for the club as a teenager.

 

[Unnamed1]

There is no way in hell Casboult (or Jones) would get to the contest and bring the ball to ground against two defenders the way Tom regularly does.
I watched Tom's work off the ball even when he was up the ground on Sunday and his ability to make multiple leads and get to the fall of the ball is outstanding.

Totally agree. His fitness level has increased massively since the start of the season. If we were to play Richmond again tomorrow, there's no way that Rance would dominate on the rebound against Boyd like he did earlier this year.

 

[stefoid]

There is no way in hell Casboult (or Jones) would get to the contest and bring the ball to ground against two defenders the way Tom regularly does.
I watched Tom's work off the ball even when he was up the ground on Sunday and his ability to make multiple leads and get to the fall of the ball is outstanding.

It doesnt have to be casboult, although I do think if casboult has a role at AFL level, its long target close to goal.

Do we see Boyd as ultimately that FF type of player, or a power CHF?

 

[Mofra]

Do we see Boyd as ultimately that FF type of player, or a power CHF?

I think the terms are somewhat redundant - players make the play in different ways now.

As his fitness develops I expect him to lead further up the ground at times but then double-back and become our "get out" kick closer to goal if need be.
I don't see him anchored to the goalsquare for the rest of his career.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I'd throw Jones a lifeline before going after Casboult.

 

[stefoid]

I think the terms are somewhat redundant - players make the play in different ways now.

As his fitness develops I expect him to lead further up the ground at times but then double-back and become our "get out" kick closer to goal if need be.
I don't see him anchored to the goalsquare for the rest of his career.

Yep, my impression is there are basically three roles for tall forwards:

"hit up" forwards - job is to cover heaps of ground and just continually present a marking target, particularly up the wings for kicking out of defence, or sprinting back hard towards goal.
"power" forwards - job is to remain mostly in the forward half of the ground 1 to 2 kicks from goal. ideally they will be a jack of all trades, able to lead, pack mark or kick a goal, as the situation demands. They are targets for kicks from the midfield into what should be the most heavily guarded area of the ground by the opposition.
"long targets" - job is to remain close to goal as the 'kick long into the F50 and pray' target. They will be either marking near the goal square or on a short sharp lead or pack mark half a kick from goal aka 'the hotspot'. The idea is that a mark is almost a certain goal, and failing that, there will be a mad contest for the ground ball in the most dangerous spot on the ground that will result in either a snap on goal or a rushed kick from a defender into the arms of one of our guys who have pushed up to fill that space around the F50 arc.

Did I get it right?

 

[Dogsman16]

Yep, my impression is there are basically three roles for tall forwards:

"hit up" forwards - job is to cover heaps of ground and just continually present a marking target, particularly up the wings for kicking out of defence, or sprinting back hard towards goal.
"power" forwards - job is to remain mostly in the forward half of the ground 1 to 2 kicks from goal. ideally they will be a jack of all trades, able to lead, pack mark or kick a goal, as the situation demands. They are targets for kicks from the midfield into what should be the most heavily guarded area of the ground by the opposition.
"long targets" - job is to remain close to goal as the 'kick long into the F50 and pray' target. They will be either marking near the goal square or on a short sharp lead or pack mark half a kick from goal aka 'the hotspot'. The idea is that a mark is almost a certain goal, and failing that, there will be a mad contest for the ground ball in the most dangerous spot on the ground that will result in either a snap on goal or a rushed kick from a defender into the arms of one of our guys who have pushed up to fill that space around the F50 arc.

Did I get it right?

Yeah this is pretty good summary.

Currently Crameri is the hit up, Stringer the power forward and Boyd the long target.

That being said the 2nd ruck position need to do a combination of roles (probably push them deeper to give them a rest and thats where boyd might need to push higher up the ground. He's never going to fill the hitup forward role but needs to do a mixture of the power forward role (Johnno Brown type) and the long target (Tom Hawkins type).

Think tall forwards shouldn't be confined to one segment of the ground.

 

[doggies ftw]

If you've got a second ruck who can play Boyds role and make a contest every single time or take a few big grabs, you're doing well. That would be perfect and allow Boyd to lead up a bit more where he will be pretty much impossible to defend. While he's awesome deep I sort of agree he's a bit wasted there. Most ideal option would be a hit up forward leading up the wings and half back, Boyd next in line taking big grabs at CHF (he can kick em from 60) or when he's starting deeper, leading up to 35-40 out and then a Cordy type (whose better in the air though, maybe Rough long term?) sitting deep. They need to be versatile (swing back, into the ruck, up the ground and probably subbed off quite often for run) and competent enough to at least being every long ball to ground for the smalls. Stringer just compliments those 3 types for mine, beast who can do it all and will spend more time in the middle soon.

 

[Mofra]

"hit up" forwards - job is to cover heaps of ground and just continually present a marking target, particularly up the wings for kicking out of defence, or sprinting back hard towards goal.
"power" forwards - job is to remain mostly in the forward half of the ground 1 to 2 kicks from goal. ideally they will be a jack of all trades, able to lead, pack mark or kick a goal, as the situation demands. They are targets for kicks from the midfield into what should be the most heavily guarded area of the ground by the opposition.
"long targets" - job is to remain close to goal as the 'kick long into the F50 and pray' target. They will be either marking near the goal square or on a short sharp lead or pack mark half a kick from goal aka 'the hotspot'. The idea is that a mark is almost a certain goal, and failing that, there will be a mad contest for the ground ball in the most dangerous spot on the ground that will result in either a snap on goal or a rushed kick from a defender into the arms of one of our guys who have pushed up to fill that space around the F50 arc.

Did I get it right?

Fair summary - our "hit up" forwards generally push up into the contest (traditional flankers in a way, however Dahl/Stevens/Bonti when playing the role get their hands dirty in the contest too).

 

[Doggy Dan]

Just posting this because I love when I log in and there is something new to read about Tom Boyd. Because I still can't believe we have Tom Boyd.

WE HAVE TOM BOYD!!!!!!!

 

[Pannalstaroz]

 

[paul scholes]

It's interesting hearing that he had to lose weight from last year.
Had GWS resigned themselves into losing Tom ?
Hence they didn't give a flying in him putting on some weight?
Seems rather odd that they'd let their number 1 pick get a bit out of condition .
Anyway, gotta say the other bloke what's his face, the pig shooting crybaby has been a tad quiet so far.
Yeah I know the drill, he's getting tagged blah blah blah, but at 29 he should be shaking "a tag"

 

[womble54]

It's interesting hearing that he had to lose weight from last year.
Had GWS resigned themselves into losing Tom ?
Hence they didn't give a flying in him putting on some weight?
Seems rather odd that they'd let their number 1 pick get a bit out of condition .
Anyway, gotta say the other bloke what's his face, the pig shooting crybaby has been a tad quiet so far.
Yeah I know the drill, he's getting tagged blah blah blah, but at 29 he should be shaking "a tag"

I don't care what they say up in Blacktown, whatshisface is definitely carrying some sort of injury. No way he is as bad as he has been playing this year with or without a tag. Couldn't have happened to a more appropriate person and I look forward to his retirement presso in the next couple of years. Conversely Boyd has been terrific and will be for another 10-12 years