Autopsy Nab Challenge: Match 1 - Hawthorn vs Collingwood (Feb 26 Aurora Stadium) - autopsy from page 18

[Davo23]

Seeing our new draftees and rookies for the first time, it would seem to me we have deliberately picked players who are a good 2-3 preseasons away from being ready. And this makes sense given we have about 30 blokes who can play seniors this year and next.

Howe was horrible early but settled and started to show why we took him. Did a couple of little things that suggest to me he is a future leader. Really good size.

Miles is zippy but looks like a school kid. Gut feel is he will end up as a forward.

Hardisty did a couple of brilliant handballs but for a supposedly high possession winner didn't find the ball regularly enough. Speed and agility an issue so needs to go on the mitchell/lewis training regime. Can play but is going to have to put some hard yards into his body.

Pittonet dropped that mark in the defensive goalsquare. One very nice tap in the centre square though. Love that he looks to hit the body when given the chance.

JML off the pace. Needs strength and endurance.

Most concerned about Woody. His exposure at AFL level in the real stuff and preseason has me seriously questioning whether he can make the step up. Looks small out on the ground and his advantage at VFL which is his hardness seems nullified by the bigger bodies at AFL level. And he still spends WAY to much time on his hands and knees - this needs to be coached out of his game.

As for Grimley, the game has genuinely gone past him.

Cegs is good at times but other times he drops back to a VFL mindset. Is he lazy? Is it a confidence, concentration or fitness thing?

Jed the clear standout. He is another Rioli with his ability to influence a contest with or without the ball. Absolute star.

Billy is a funny one. He is great with his straight line speed but his ability to stop and change direction sideways is poor and is why he seems easy to tackle. He always looks frustrated during games. He was still ok on a second viewing of the game and will be much better with better players around him. I am confused about what his best position is.

I watched the whole game and I didn't see any of this.

I saw some inexperienced players trying to catch the speed of the game.
I also saw some senior players doing what they're expected to do.

That's it.

 

[Ordovician]

It can hardly be ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT

Far more experienced is an opinion so unless we can have a fixed definition of what "far more" is we should agree to disagree.

I have acknowledges in this thread that last nights game was meaningless in terms of what happens in 2015. It should not cause any concern at the Hawks and maybe a little bit of hope at the Pies as a sign we are getting back on track. You have clearly the best list in the comp and we are down to one of the least experienced.

My only point of contention was the perception some Hawks have had that Collingwood put out an experienced team last night who were hell bent on the win as the goal of the night. It was much closer to a 2nds match and I have already agreed you had a whole lot more experience missing. All our 4 A graders were missing plus half a dozen other best 22. We dont any longer have the riches of A grade players to rest you have. You were missing a lot of A grade players but still had the only elite player on the ground last night and at least two other A graders in Breust and Gunston.

Guess all I am saying is both teams were working to a plan to get their own list up and firing for round 1. A win was of secondary importance even to the Pies. There were 2 inexperienced teams playing last night , Hawks more so but for mine the difference wasn't "far more"

As I said it doesn't matter in the next game you will strip with a much better , more experienced line up as you lead into 2015. We will be a little more experienced but face a year of playing very young teams who we hope can be fast tracked back up the ladder

At the end of the day just my opinion. Didn't mean to rile anyone up or cause any friction. If I have sorry.

It is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT and to pretend otherwise is either simply dishonest or wilfully ignorant.

There is no statistical measure that you can produce that supports your contention that the pies did not field a far more experienced side than Hawthorn.

Viz.

Breakdown of games played:

+100 Hawks 4 Pies 4

50-99 Hawks 3 Pies 5

20-49 Hawks 3 Pies 8

1-19 Hawks 6 Pies 6

0 games Hawks 8 Pies 2

The big experience gap is most noticeable amongst the kids the sub 50 gamers who have been in the system for under 4 or 5 years.

You can equivocate all you want about the word "far" and cling purely to the difference in the simple arithmetic means, which I had already pointed out is heavily distorted by Mitchell who represented over ONE QUARTER of the hawks total games played but that you seem to have chosen to ignore.

If you take out the top and bottom two outliers to get a measure less distorted by the outliers, then then the average games played for each team are:

Hawks 30.65

Pies 39.08

If you can not acknowledge the obvious facts before you and have the fundamental decency to admit that you were wrong, then you should stick to posting on your own board.

 

[cryptor]

FB: Spangher, Lake, O'Rourke
HB: Suckling, Gibson, Birchall
C: Hill, Lewis, Smith
HF: Rioli, Roughead, Whitecross
FF: Puopolo, Schoenmakers, O'Brien
Foll: Hale, Hodge, Burgoyne

This is a starting 18 made up of players who didn't play the other night. Just off the top of my head, I've probably left someone out. Just to put things into perspective.

 

[Brishawk]

Jed is a sexy footballer. Best 22 for sure.

Howe should a few things I liked. Was asked to play tall but later in the game he won a few balls at ground level which show why recruiters think he can play midfield.

Miles has nice skills and speed. Needs more weight.

Hardsty showed good creativity by hand and has something to work with. Looked more afl than Woodward after only one game. That is a worry for woody.

I don't think we need to worry about frawley. Was dragged out of position so the pies could isolate a shorter defender against a tall pie. No brand made it hard to rotate defenders like we normally do. Especially when Stratton was the only regular 22 back ther and he played small all night. Having guys like Gibson, hodge and Burgoyne along side frawley instead of Howe, miles, Litherland amd willsmoore will make a massive difference.

Langers is going to be a very good player. He won contests at will.

We really lacked the run of smith, hill, birchall and suckling.

 

[Goldhawk]

Langers is going to be a very good player. He won contests at will.

.

Maybe that's why he is called Will

 

[Roger Rogerson]

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/video/2015-02-26/nab-rnd1-match-highlights-

At 1:20 Varcoe has brought his Geelong skills utilising the quick "hands" to set up a goal.

Old habits die hard. Geelong have been the masters of the throw the past few five or six years.

Yep noticed that during the game. blatant throw.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Very very happy with Langers and Jed.

Willsmore ran to good spots, fumbled the odd one but that is not his norm. He'll get stronger and fitter but saw more good than bad. The long bomb into Gunners is why I like this guy.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Very very happy with Langers and Jed.

Willsmore ran to good spots, fumbled the odd one but that is not his norm. He'll get stronger and fitter but saw more good than bad. The long bomb into Gunners is why I like this guy.

Agree re Willsmore. Has some smarts. Some good signs.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Ok, I came home after working and thought why not re-watch it again. First up anyone genuinely worried/upset about the result should punch themselves in the face, it means and meant nothing. We matched the Pies for 3/4's and understandably fell away in the last quarter due to a huge amount of kids playing and being 4 weeks behind the Pies in pre-season training. Pies weren't full strength by any means either, but they had more senior/regular best 22 players in their side.

I'm up, bored and can't sleep so I thought why not mention a bit on every player after watching it twice now and watching players a lot more closely compared to last night.

Mitchell - The bloke is a freak! Magician! Champion! So many words can describe this man but not sure they can do him justice. The best thing about watching him in this game was how far ahead he is of the average AFL footballer. Different ballparks. Makes players look silly. This guy simply cannot be replaced, Hodgepodge as much as you carry on about us doing fine without him last year and being able to replace him fine, we will feel his loss greatly when he retires. I hope it's a long way away yet.

McEvoy - Very good signs from the big fella, looking more and more likely to be the Hale replacement. I initially was all for Ceglar being Hale MK2, but the HFC have nailed this. Ceglar is clearly the better tap ruckman and McEvoy is showing how good he can be up forward as the forward/ruck in the future. Our ruck division is set for a long time IMO.

Duryea - Hard to really evaluate his game, got a fair bit of the ball and used it pretty well, however he was beaten a couple of times. Overall a typical Duryea game, nothing too special but solid nonetheless. One thing I must say, he is one of the most courageous players on our list.

Frawley - Stinker of a game, can't really find any positives in his performance. Even Hodgey has come out and said he had a poor game haha. I'm not worried at all though, as posters have said Gibbo's first game for us was an absolute nightmare. He will take awhile to rub the spudness of Melbourne off him but more importantly, adapt to our systems and gameplan. It also didn't help him that Brand went down early and he had very little senior help around him.

Ceglar - Cegs.....I just enjoy saying Cegs. I thought he was solid on Thursday night, after the replay tonight, I didn't give him enough credit. I love the big fella, gives 100% every contest and his tapwork at times is so underrated. Our ruck dilemma this year will be as tough as last year, this guy is more than ready to take our number 1 ruck spot.

Gunston - Just a class above most of the players our there, his forward work, especially the reading of the ball flight is excellent. Did what he had to do and took it for what it is, a praccy match. I still laugh at what we gave up for this guy, robbery.

Sicily - 2nd most exciting youngster on the list IMO (not including Langers). He oozes self belief and has a good footy brain. He is only 186/7 cms I think but he plays like a lot taller at times. Great hands and long booming kick, I still don't know what his ceiling will be or what type of player he will eventually become, I am genuinely excited to see how his future unfolds. He had cameo moments, those moments though suggest he will become a special player (In my biased opinion).

Breust - Frustrating game for Punky, got caught multiple times and struggled to really impact the game despite his 2 goals. He is a gun so not too worried about it, he probably was on instruction to take the game on as much as possible.

Stratton - Real nothing game from him, hardly noticed him besides a few poor kicks. Rusty but it's feb after all.

Shiels - Typical Shiels game, racks the possies up, good in and under play that goes unnoticed and of course a set shot miss

Langford - Seems to have picked up where he left off, great signs from him! He is a rabid animal in contests and will become an inside beast, with breakaway speed. I still cringe a bit at the amount of posters saying he will be a top 10 midfielder by the end of the season, top 10 in brownlow etc. Give the kid some time to keep developing his game whilst we still have superstar mids like Mitchell and Lewis in front of him.

Brand - Felt terribly for him, so unfortunate and worrying signs with how long it took to put back in. I've done my shoulder before in footy and I was out for a long time. If he needs surgery on it then it's season done, let's hope for the best, obvious weak point with him though (shoulders can be such a b*tch).

Litherland - Expected and wanted more from Liquor. Not a terrible game by any stretch, just was an average game from him. He will bounce back.

Simpkin - Hmmm, the more I see of him and our kids, the more I want to play the kids ahead of him. He can rack it up but gee he turns it over a lot. There were some really poor turnovers in this game and it can be quite frustrating. Good depth but hopefully Clarko chooses the likes of O'Rourke, Anderson, Hartung over him this year.

Grimley - Hah! Classic Grimley

Anderson - Ok......mancrush forming rapidly with Jed. He is the most exciting youngster on our list, I challenge anyone who disagrees to a duel! Has every attribute you want in a midfielder. Good skills, quick, tough, can play inside and outside, likes a goal. Play him Round 1 Clarko.

Willsmore - Not a good game from Dallas, missed 2 overhead marks with an opponent a metre from him, little pressure yes but were absolute sitters. He would be disappointed in that and his other fumbles. I am a bit harsh here but it was a disappointing game. Still it's one game and he has talent.

Woodward - Quiet, was hoping to see a much better game from Woody. Was rarely noticed, however he did some really quick handballs inside contest that were impressive. Needs more to his game, maybe it's self belief issues but I feel he has more than what we have seen. However, he can't really be judged, he has overcome 2 knee recos and will only become more confident in his body from now on.

Hartung - Funnily, after watching it for a second time I was less impressed than initially. Wasn't a great game, got caught a few times and turned it over too. He still has moments where he doesn't know what to do and just runs in a panic. This comes down to experience in my opinion, he has the tools, just needs more gametime and years to improve it. Bradley Hill was the exact same when he started out. Can't seem to break out of tackles/evade them but he sticks his tackles pretty well which is a good sign. Harsh on him and I expect to see him dominate 1 of the next 2 NAB games haha.

Howe - Couple of fumbles/mistakes but a couple of really good moments too. I was quiet impressed with his game. A fair way off just like all out first year players but we have something to work with here.

Miles - The most impressive game of all our first year players. Looked quite composed and has a crack. Can see a future with him, may be fighting for a back pocket spot in a couple of years.

Pittonet - Played hardly any minutes so hard to judge, ruckman take years to show anything anyway, so judging him this early will be tough. Lots of Box Hill for him and see how he develops under Monkey.

Hardisty - Can play, he may not be an athlete but he is a footballer. Impressed with his game at times. I must say his handballing really is his strength, made some really good decisions and executions with it. His kicking is a weakness, definitely a work-in-progress with this area of his game.

Miller-Lewis - Headless chook in the game, great enthusiasm but he was running around seeming confused at times, is a long way off. A couple of times he got the ball and wanted to give it off straight away to a teammate, instead of making the correct decision. Give the kid time in the 2's and see how he develops. He is the perfect rookie pick though, may never come on, however he could surprise and turn into a special type of player with his talent.

I must mention, I've been a lot harder on 2nd/3rd year players compared to our 1st year ones. When you think about it, it's pretty harsh as they're babies too. Also many of these players will look a lot better with senior players around helping them with leadership and having a better structure around them.

Great right up Hawkas1988. Thank you.

Remain puzzled by Hardisty though. Am not sure he is a footballer more than an athlete. His footballing strength appears to be winning contested ball and dishing it out by hand, but he seems to need a lot of work when he has the ball in space and can use it by foot. Bit like Woody when he first came to the club IMHO. His beep test of 15.4 at the state screening would have placed him fifth in the entire AFL Draft Combine in 2014, which is pretty impressive. With that performance he would have been fourth in 2013, won it in 2012 and been second only to Hilly in 2011. So he definitely has some athlete in him.

Will be interesting to see how he develops this year at BH and whether the club is able to add a little more outside speed to his game and improve his decision making and disposal efficiency by foot.

 

[seysearles]

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-02-27/browny-rates-de-goey-and-anderson

 

[bris tarangau]

Worth getting Shiels to spend alot more time with Gunners and Breust during training to learn the art of accurate goal-kicking in the F50.

 

[seysearles]

It is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT and to pretend otherwise is either simply dishonest or wilfully ignorant.

There is no statistical measure that you can produce that supports your contention that the pies did not field a far more experienced side than Hawthorn.

Viz.

Breakdown of games played:

+100 Hawks 4 Pies 4

50-99 Hawks 3 Pies 5

20-49 Hawks 3 Pies 8

1-19 Hawks 6 Pies 6

0 games Hawks 8 Pies 2

The big experience gap is most noticeable amongst the kids the sub 50 gamers who have been in the system for under 4 or 5 years.

You can equivocate all you want about the word "far" and cling purely to the difference in the simple arithmetic means, which I had already pointed out is heavily distorted by Mitchell who represented over ONE QUARTER of the hawks total games played but that you seem to have chosen to ignore.

If you take out the top and bottom two outliers to get a measure less distorted by the outliers, then then the average games played for each team are:

Hawks 30.65

Pies 39.08

If you can not acknowledge the obvious facts before you and have the fundamental decency to admit that you were wrong, then you should stick to posting on your own board.

I really don't think we need to justify this. We got beaten pretty badly and looked ordinary out there which is something we are not used to seeing from a team wearing brown and gold. However to try conclude anything from that result is a genuinely pointless exercise. You just need to go back to previous NAB cups where Grimley was going to be the next Roughead or Ross was a hidden gem or Wanganeen was the next Rioli to see that the pre-season is not always a great indication of things to come. It has really become about trialling new game plans and throwing young kids on the field in a variety of roles and getting game time into them. All the young guys that were out there and looked lost on the field will be introduced methodically into our premiership winning line up as the season progresses which will allow them to develop within a well drilled unit. Guys like Duryea and Litherland are good example of this who are both still pretty green in terms of games played and looked very raw on Thursday but when playing alongside the likes of Mitchell and Hodge are much better players.

 

[Agent Smith]

I could not believe the amount of non-hawthorn supporters at my work who could not wait to have a crack at me for the Hawks loss. I had to stop myself from laughing in their ignorant, jealous faces.
They have been hanging out all off season to have a crack at us Hawk supporters...and they waste it on a pissy little practice match.
The dumb, dumb silly fools.

Quite a number of Collingwood flogs were strutting about yesterday as though they'd won the premiership or something. Can't wait for reality to hit them... I have my ammo loaded and ready to return fire.

 

[Gone Critical]

It is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT and to pretend otherwise is either simply dishonest or wilfully ignorant.

There is no statistical measure that you can produce that supports your contention that the pies did not field a far more experienced side than Hawthorn.

Viz.

Breakdown of games played:

+100 Hawks 4 Pies 4

50-99 Hawks 3 Pies 5

20-49 Hawks 3 Pies 8

1-19 Hawks 6 Pies 6

0 games Hawks 8 Pies 2

The big experience gap is most noticeable amongst the kids the sub 50 gamers who have been in the system for under 4 or 5 years.

You can equivocate all you want about the word "far" and cling purely to the difference in the simple arithmetic means, which I had already pointed out is heavily distorted by Mitchell who represented over ONE QUARTER of the hawks total games played but that you seem to have chosen to ignore.

If you take out the top and bottom two outliers to get a measure less distorted by the outliers, then then the average games played for each team are:

Hawks 30.65

Pies 39.08

If you can not acknowledge the obvious facts before you and have the fundamental decency to admit that you were wrong, then you should stick to posting on your own board.

I did sign off from this thread before so I apologise for returning. I am only doing so to clarify what I said. I am not trying to be ignorant or dishonest. Thanks for for stats they help with what you are saying. Perhaps it would be better for me to say "although Hawthorn fielded a far more inexperienced side Collingwood also had an inexperienced side which further emphasises how young the Hawks were". I was just trying to say I thought rather than the view Collingwood was working to a plan to win the match as it's major aim we also had a plan in place to expose our kids and work towards the opening round of the season. Agree Hawks did this to a far greater extent.

My bottom line is it is the easiest match of the year to play in and the result has no meaning at all. Getting some game legs into players and seeing what your kids are like is its only relevance. Pies are in no better position looking to the season ahead for the win and Hawks in no way damaged.

You are a long way ahead of us as a list and once the real season is up I don't see us as any chance to beat you. We will probably knock the Swans off as they don't like playing us but Hawks just tear us apart.

I have intruded long enough and apologise again for ruffling so many of your posters feathers. Wasn't my intention.

 

[Goldhawk]

Quite a number of Collingwood flogs were strutting about yesterday as though they'd won the premiership or something. Can't wait for reality to hit them... I have my ammo loaded and ready to return fire.

Yeah a couple of my friends are gloating.....I just said what you beat a Box Hill side, that got them going.

 

[hfc70]

Not at all impressed by Howe, thought he was awful but the game meant nothing in the end. Pittonet will develop into a very good ruck but that'll take a few years. Overall I'm more impressed with Hardisty than any of our National Draft selections (not including the big guy).

Tom Lamb didn't do all that much last night, but he would have been a far better option at pick 31. Just my 2 cents.

We must be watching totally different games. Couldn't disagree without more

 

[Siri]

I really don't think we need to justify this. We got beaten pretty badly and looked ordinary out there which is something we are not used to seeing from a team wearing brown and gold. However to try conclude anything from that result is a genuinely pointless exercise. You just need to go back to previous NAB cups where Grimley was going to be the next Roughead or Ross was a hidden gem or Wanganeen was the next Rioli to see that the pre-season is not always a great indication of things to come. It has really become about trialling new game plans and throwing young kids on the field in a variety of roles and getting game time into them. All the young guys that were out there and looked lost on the field will be introduced methodically into our premiership winning line up as the season progresses which will allow them to develop within a well drilled unit. Guys like Duryea and Litherland are good example of this who are both still pretty green in terms of games played and looked very raw on Thursday but when playing alongside the likes of Mitchell and Hodge are much better players.

Great post ... the voice of reason. For example, in line with your observations it wouldn't be the first time Jesse White is touted as being the next best thing since sliced bread in a preseason competition. Just like Jesse, sliced bread is only useful for a few days before it's mouldy & no good! The hawks would rather make their own bread on an "as needs" basis but it's all about trial & error until you get the recipe right. This is the perfect time to "practice" exactly that!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We must be watching totally different games. Couldn't disagree without more

Similar thoughts. I didn't see Lamb, nor do I know who he plays for, but I was pretty happy with Howe's first hit out after some initial nerves.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

It is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT and to pretend otherwise is either simply dishonest or wilfully ignorant.

There is no statistical measure that you can produce that supports your contention that the pies did not field a far more experienced side than Hawthorn.

Viz.

Breakdown of games played:

+100 Hawks 4 Pies 4

50-99 Hawks 3 Pies 5

20-49 Hawks 3 Pies 8

1-19 Hawks 6 Pies 6

0 games Hawks 8 Pies 2

The big experience gap is most noticeable amongst the kids the sub 50 gamers who have been in the system for under 4 or 5 years.

You can equivocate all you want about the word "far" and cling purely to the difference in the simple arithmetic means, which I had already pointed out is heavily distorted by Mitchell who represented over ONE QUARTER of the hawks total games played but that you seem to have chosen to ignore.

If you take out the top and bottom two outliers to get a measure less distorted by the outliers, then then the average games played for each team are:

Hawks 30.65

Pies 39.08

If you can not acknowledge the obvious facts before you and have the fundamental decency to admit that you were wrong, then you should stick to posting on your own board.

We ended up subbing off 250 games of experience a bit after half time. The games played difference was next to nothing in the last quarter. I think the difference wasn't the games played or the age of the players it was the three weeks more preseason and the extra subs (more rotations). We were simply fitter/ less spent in the last.

 

[threesixpio]

I did sign off from this thread before so I apologise for returning. I am only doing so to clarify what I said. I am not trying to be ignorant or dishonest. Thanks for for stats they help with what you are saying. Perhaps it would be better for me to say "although Hawthorn fielded a far more inexperienced side Collingwood also had an inexperienced side which further emphasises how young the Hawks were". I was just trying to say I thought rather than the view Collingwood was working to a plan to win the match as it's major aim we also had a plan in place to expose our kids and work towards the opening round of the season. Agree Hawks did this to a far greater extent.

My bottom line is it is the easiest match of the year to play in and the result has no meaning at all. Getting some game legs into players and seeing what your kids are like is its only relevance. Pies are in no better position looking to the season ahead for the win and Hawks in no way damaged.

You are a long way ahead of us as a list and once the real season is up I don't see us as any chance to beat you. We will probably knock the Swans off as they don't like playing us but Hawks just tear us apart.

I have intruded long enough and apologise again for ruffling so many of your posters feathers. Wasn't my intention.

You had a general thrust argument that was correct - that is - who really cares it was a NAB game with pretty unrepresentative teams and the big things for both teams respectively were De Goey and Jed. Like I said earlier I have liked a lot of your contributions and some posters are being a bit delicate - but it's a team board so that happens

 

[becalm]

It is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT and to pretend otherwise is either simply dishonest or wilfully ignorant.

There is no statistical measure that you can produce that supports your contention that the pies did not field a far more experienced side than Hawthorn.

Viz.

Breakdown of games played:

+100 Hawks 4 Pies 4

50-99 Hawks 3 Pies 5

20-49 Hawks 3 Pies 8

1-19 Hawks 6 Pies 6

0 games Hawks 8 Pies 2

The big experience gap is most noticeable amongst the kids the sub 50 gamers who have been in the system for under 4 or 5 years.

You can equivocate all you want about the word "far" and cling purely to the difference in the simple arithmetic means, which I had already pointed out is heavily distorted by Mitchell who represented over ONE QUARTER of the hawks total games played but that you seem to have chosen to ignore.

If you take out the top and bottom two outliers to get a measure less distorted by the outliers, then then the average games played for each team are:

Hawks 30.65

Pies 39.08

If you can not acknowledge the obvious facts before you and have the fundamental decency to admit that you were wrong, then you should stick to posting on your own board.

This analysis really highlights your reasoning and cannot be disputed.
The 0 games is a really obvious, 8 to 2.
When you have 8 no gamers in the side at once things become very difficult both for the 1st gamers and other players.
Added to that we had less rotations and Brand poor bloke only lasting 30 seconds.
Anyway not worth worrying about, NAB cup games have been having less and less relevance now. I would say they have less relevance than the inter-club practice matches of years gone by.

 

[Pessimistic]

Yup and that's why I said highly unlikely

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-01-01/same-22-dont-bet-on-it

Great post ... the voice of reason. For example, in line with your observations it wouldn't be the first time Jesse White is touted as being the next best thing since sliced bread in a preseason competition. Just like Jesse, sliced bread is only useful for a few days before it's mouldy & no good! The hawks would rather make their own bread on an "as needs" basis but it's all about trial & error until you get the recipe right. This is the perfect time to "practice" exactly that!

Lose a soldier, replace with another soldier.

Just not all aththe same time

 

[Pessimistic]

We ended up subbing off 250 games of experience a bit after half time. The games played difference was next to nothing in the last quarter. I think the difference wasn't the games played or the age of the players it was the three weeks more preseason and the extra subs (more rotations). We were simply fitter/ less spent in the last.

Another twenty pages and it will be the hawthorn TOC which was beaten by the collingwood fifth scout footy team

 

[Gunstall555]

We would have won if Stevic played.

 

[Davo23]

We ended up subbing off 250 games of experience a bit after half time. The games played difference was next to nothing in the last quarter. I think the difference wasn't the games played or the age of the players it was the three weeks more preseason and the extra subs (more rotations). We were simply fitter/ less spent in the last.

If we'd played Chris Langford rather than Will Langford, we would have had 280 games extra experience.
And Dermie & Dunstall were in the commentary box.

So count yourself lucky, pal.