Nathan Lyon
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Botham and Warne (and a few other bowlers) were both geniuses at bullshitting. Beefy would run up, puffing and blowing, send down a medium paced long hop and shout 'Look out! It's a big scary outswinger!!'. Some batsmen would then go 'Oh dear, be careful. oh I'll just push at it, Oh, what do I do? Bugger'. Ok - I'm exaggerating for (feeble) comic effect, but Beefy had a lot of front.
Remember how Warne would have a new delivery every series? Most of them were the same old stuff, except he stuck his toungue out in a different way, or pulled a funny face. Warne also had such great control, that when he did stuff up and bowl a lollipop, the batsmen immediately thought 'He's setting me up!'. Certainly, the commentators always did.
All bowlers do it to some extent. Spin bowlers particularly. If you can get the batsman to think while the ball is coming towards him, rather than playing the ball strictly on it's merits, chances are he'll stuff up.
John Emburey always said he never bowled an arm ball before he came to Australia - he just tossed them down and some would spin and some wouldn't. He was trying to spin them all. But the commentators told him he was bowling 'arm balls'.
You started this thread the day he got three wickets... Including Sachin...
This summer has proven that you need a bowling unit with discipline and control - Lyon gives you that.
He really has only had 1 or 2 wickets that have been good for spin bowlers while he has been in the side. A lot of the wickets this year have been far 'friendlier' to the seamers. SL first test is the only one that really sticks out as a 'rank turner' and he took 5 there.
He was the best spinner during the series, so I think people having a go are been pretty harsh.
I do reckon he's a more capable bowler than Hauritz, because he throws the ball up and gets more turn and bounce. Hauritz was slightly more steady though and obviously a far better batsman.
In a team like Pakistan, Hauritz would be the 'all-round spinner' - added as a second spinner when necessary but who can score some runs (O'Keeffe may or may not fit this category). Lyon is more of a specialist spinner who seems like a rabbit with the bat.
MG MG
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Huss has handed over the song leadership to Gaz, but how secure is he even in the side?
Don't get me wrong. I like Nathan, seems like a nice bloke and the hope he makes a career for himself, but the way he is bowling now.... The India series will be a huge one for him.
But usually the song has been handed of to a person that is secure hasn't it?
Don't get me wrong. I like Nathan, seems like a nice bloke and the hope he makes a career for himself, but the way he is bowling now.... The India series will be a huge one for him.
But usually the song has been handed of to a person that is secure hasn't it?
Thing is, theres only two guys who I would call very secure in our side at the moment, obviously Clarke and then Siddle. Could not have been an easy decision for Hussey to hand the song on as Clarke is the captain and the so called rotation policy applies to Siddle. Probably comes down to Warner, Wade and Lyon who have all been in the side for a decent period of time, but have yet to cement their spots.
Pure_Ownage
TheBrownDog
Just means Hussey and the boys like Lyon. In the end that doesn't matter though as the selectors make the calls, so it doesn't make Lyon any more safe.
FWIW, I think he's a decent spinner, not great, but given our dearth of spin bowling stocks he should stay a while. At the moment he just seems to be bowling a bit too quickly and going to containment mode. He needs to mix up his pace and flight more, he was a better bowler when he was doing that.
FWIW, I think he's a decent spinner, not great, but given our dearth of spin bowling stocks he should stay a while. At the moment he just seems to be bowling a bit too quickly and going to containment mode. He needs to mix up his pace and flight more, he was a better bowler when he was doing that.
Black Diamond
Sleight of Hand
He would have had 2 or 3 in the second dig but for Wade's keeping. If Wade had taken those catches would you have started this thread?
MG MG
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I agree with that. Lyon bowled very well in the second innings, but was unlucky. And he will keep being with Wade behind the stumps. Like I said, I like him, so don't think that I am calling him a spud or anything.
Just that, that was one dig this season. He needs to take more wickets. It would help if he took him time, bowled a bit slower as a stock ball and with a bit more speed variation. No one apart from the injured Holland is really banging the door down, but you expect Michael Beer to play in India, and Holland too keep pushing when he returns. Left arm spinners seem all the rage atm in world cricket and of Beer has an impact in India...
Bucking Beads
Brownlow Medallist
I think Lyon is reasonable safe in the side unless one of the young leggies starts bowling the house down. Lyon's figure aren't as good as they could have been that is for sure. Wade has let him down on a fair few occasions. He still needs to improve a fair bit in my book but he has shown signs he could develop into a real quality spinner for us.
As hellgood said who is safe in the team?
The only player you can be 100% sure will still be in the side this time next year is clarke.
4 tests in india and 10 vs england, it's not inconceivable that we could be massacred in all three series and that would more than likely lead to a major clean out.
The only player you can be 100% sure will still be in the side this time next year is clarke.
4 tests in india and 10 vs england, it's not inconceivable that we could be massacred in all three series and that would more than likely lead to a major clean out.
Team DJ
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Lyon is the best spinner in the land. He has been lucky in a way that the likes of Doherty and Hauritz dropped right off, but i still think that all 3 bowling their best Lyon is our best option.
He was robbed of 5+ wickets through the summer because of Wade.
He has the talent to be a better bowler. When he first came onto the scene he did bowl a lot slower and with more flight. But he seems to be stuck in the mind set of bowling a bit quicker to build pressure.
Through the summer he has always kept the runs fairly tight, whilst the quickies are taking the wickets down the other end. So maybe some of the pressure he has built can be accredited to this.
He was robbed of 5+ wickets through the summer because of Wade.
He has the talent to be a better bowler. When he first came onto the scene he did bowl a lot slower and with more flight. But he seems to be stuck in the mind set of bowling a bit quicker to build pressure.
Through the summer he has always kept the runs fairly tight, whilst the quickies are taking the wickets down the other end. So maybe some of the pressure he has built can be accredited to this.
Losing the Ashes at home and in such a way didn't even see Punter deprived of the skipper's job so I can't agree there. Nothing ever leads to a major clean-out.
DrVanNostrand
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Gazzaaaaaaaaaaaaa. He's now untouchable and so he should be.
sherb
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Knott keeping to Underwood (especially on a favourable pitch) was always worth admiration too.
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Decent is a bit of a stretch. He's Nathan Hauritz 2.0.
His stats are also heavily bloated. Of his 61 wickets at test level, 31 have been batsman batting between 8-11. 50'8% of his wickets are that of the tail.
He will be absolutely smashed to all places in India, especially with Wade as keeper.
BananaOnTheRun
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he's got the tools to work with, all he needs is to slow it down a bit and have teammates who take the catches when they're meant to. probably also needs to have a better sense of occasion when he's holding the ball.
I don't think anybody expects him to be a consistent match winner in india, warne got belted in india so any current aussie spinner is going to be long odds to get the better of the indians at home.
If he can do what he has been doing, wrap up the tail and not leak 4+ an over then he would be doing his job in india.
But i will keep asking this in case one of the lyon doubters actually answers....
Who would you dump lyon for? and what sort of numbers would they then need to put up to hold their spot in the test team?
BF logic...
Bowlers can't take tail ender wickets (like today for example): Lyon is shithouse, spinner that can't even clean up the tail
Lyon cleans up the tail enders: hahahaha, what a spud, just picks up the cheapies
Also, that means 49.2% of his wickets are top order batsman.... most spinners would have extremely similar stats. They aren't usually the guys opening the bowling ffs.
Also, as I said in the game thread, Lyon and Huss are best mates off field (heard Lyon say this in an interview recently). Was not surprised at all to see the song go to someone who will be around Australian Test team for the next decade (all things going well).
Well yeah. He always has been. the comment of "Australia have searched their country far and wide to find a spinner exactly like Nathan Hauritz." made during Lyon's debut stands true. that isn't a bad thing. Hauritz wasn't a bad spinner and neither is Lyon. He just isn't a spinner deserving of a sub 30 average yet. so it's nice that the average has dipped and hopefully people have re-adjusted their expectations while realising a 35odd average isn't actually that bad. but i don't think they have. so. bummer.
Almost as good a BFism as assertions without backing... first seven I searched:
Colin Miller 19/69 27%
Murali 260/800 33%
Warne 263/708 37%
Swann 64/212 30%
Herath 59/186 32%
Harbhajan 147/408 36%
Hauritz 24/63 38%
He takes wickets when blokes that can't bat have a crack at him, most random batsman can land them well enough to do that bit. It's as much off spin being useless in Australia as it is Lyon himself and I doubt any other finger spinners we have would be significantly better or worse (barring Krejza who can't even fill the role of holding an end). Any option is going to just be a stock bowler, for mine they don't weight batting heavily enough in which they choose and Hauritz could consider himself harshly done by to be ousted for a bloke bowling the same stuff but batting jack
Spud Patrol
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I'm still not sold on Lyon, i do however love the nickname so hes not a full blown spud just yet, but hes definitely germinating. I think this thread has summed the situation up very well and covered most basis. But i think we are missing the main point of the thread, i think he got given the honours of the song because he just might have a really good strong voice.
Here is the problem, Australian, and world cricket for that matter is just so full of spuds, lemons and nuggets that there is no one to replace him with. We've shopped around for years and Lyon is just lucky he was in the right form at the right time. The real problem is going to india and fielding a team with not just 1, but 2 state level bowlers. Realistically, Lyon, Beer, Hauritz, Doherty.... They are all spuds and can barely cope at first class level.
