Nathan Lyon

[Team DJ]

Decent is a bit of a stretch. He's Nathan Hauritz 2.0.

His stats are also heavily bloated. Of his 61 wickets at test level, 31 have been batsman batting between 8-11. 50'8% of his wickets are that of the tail.

He will be absolutely smashed to all places in India, especially with Wade as keeper.

LOL. Worst post ever?

He's criticized for not getting out the tail. Yet his stats say he gets half his wickets from them.

Now you criticize him for getting half his wickets against the tail. Surely that means the other half come from the top order? lol

Warne was smacked by the Indians in India to.

I think people need to realise Warne was a once in a life time player we will not and can not replace him, and my god we've tried (Casson McGain Beer White Doherty etc). Lyon is our best spinner atm. And he has the tools there to become and even better one with a bit more flight and more luck from players holding catches.

 

[MG MG]

Agree though. Hauritz was a good spinner and should still be in the team today, just as he was really coming on he was dropped for Doh who was a spud and was just not considered again.

 

[Pera]

LOL. Worst post ever?

Good start to your rebuttal.

He's criticized for not getting out the tail. Yet his stats say he gets half his wickets from them.

He's criticized because he is having no effect against top order players. There are three other frontline pace bowlers in the side who can knock off the tail quite easily. Lyon isn't even holding up an end, when he ideally should have in favourable conditions for spinners at the SCG.

Now you criticize him for getting half his wickets against the tail. Surely that means the other half come from the top order? lol

Yeah, that' still not a god record compared with say, Nathan Hauritz, who has 62% of his test victims in the top order. Hauritz it also a better bat. Give Lyon three more tests and his average will be blown out past Hauritz's.

Warne was smacked by the Indians in India to.

So what? We were playing Sri Lanka.... at home.

I think people need to realise Warne was a once in a life time player we will not and can not replace him, and my god we've tried (Casson McGain Beer White Doherty etc). Lyon is our best spinner atm. And he has the tools there to become and even better one with a bit more flight and more luck from players holding catches.

No one has made mention of Warne. Pointless argument.

 

[ICCHILL007]

Most of the wickets Lyon gets if where Clarke brings him on for the 10 and 11 to get a couple of cheap wickets to give him confidence ..... Even I could get the 10 & 11 out that Sri Lanka have and I only play a low level of cricket......

There is no point in playing a spinner like Lyon that doesnt trouble top order batsman and can't take wickets even in the last innings of a test match.......

Was watching Brad Hogg bowl the other day and he turns it a long way and troubles most top order batsman and is 10 times the better bowler than Lyon and he is over 40 years old!

 

[threenewpadlocks]

A few of Lyon's bowling performances stick out.

One of them is Tim Southee attempting to smash him out of the ground, from memory he was 4 of Lyon's 9 dismissals in the 2 test NZ series at home.

His inability to get de Villiers and du Plessis out when bowling 40% of the overs because we were a bowler down.

80% of his wickets to me seem not him getting a batsman out with good bowling, but a batsman getting themselves out with bad batting. Anybody see him work over a batsman before getting him out with a variation ball? Nup.

Bowls too flat, should bowl into the air. Whenever he tosses one up and it gets hit, it doesn't encourage him, it deadens him and he goes back to bowling flat.

He has potential if he controls his speed and flight - he runs in too bowl too fast, than that transfers into his bowling, bowling too fast and flat. He also doesn't vary his pace enough.

Which is a shame becuase I reckon he has potential - he has a knack of forcing batsman not to bat properly (to go with my earlier point) and if he can combine that with genuine wicket taking capabilities, then he'll go far. He's still Australia's best spinner.

Another point I'd like to make is how much of a decent go that he got - he's hardly better than any of the other 10 or so spinners we trialled after Warne's retirement - and I'm sure half of them played less than 5 tests. He had the virtue of playing on a spinner's pitch on debut and taking a 5-for this gives him the opportunity to play another 5 tests, unlike any of the no worse spinners we have.

When we play at home, 4 pacemen should be the go - merely reflecting the large stocks of good fast bowlers we have combined with our lack of spinners.

 

[Phone]

I think that's a fair enough post. He's gone a bit backwards with flight and pace etc, which is disappointing. (or maybe he hasn't. he's just had to bowl more against batsmen so we see it more. he had a couple of matches at the start where his only role was to bowl to the tail, no fault of his own obv)

 

[MG MG]

He's still Australia's best spinner.

Another point I'd like to make is how much of a decent go that he got - he's hardly better than any of the other 10 or so spinners we trialled after Warne's retirement - and I'm sure half of them played less than 5 tests. He had the virtue of playing on a spinner's pitch on debut and taking a 5-for this gives him the opportunity to play another 5 tests, unlike any of the no worse spinners we have.

Your post was fair, but this bit I didn't understand. One minute you were saying that he was still the best spinner in Australia, next your saying he is no better then everyone else?

 

[frankrizzo]

Was watching Brad Hogg bowl the other day and he turns it a long way and troubles most top order batsman and is 10 times the better bowler than Lyon and he is over 40 years old!

Yep bowling a few overs to batsmen slogging in 20/20 is pretty much equal to bowling in test cricket..such a pity hoggy never got his shot at test level... oh wait he did and he averaged 55.

 

[Team DJ]

Good start to your rebuttal.


He's criticized because he is having no effect against top order players. There are three other frontline pace bowlers in the side who can knock off the tail quite easily. Lyon isn't even holding up an end, when he ideally should have in favourable conditions for spinners at the SCG.


Yeah, that' still not a god record compared with say, Nathan Hauritz, who has 62% of his test victims in the top order. Hauritz it also a better bat. Give Lyon three more tests and his average will be blown out past Hauritz's.


So what? We were playing Sri Lanka.... at home.



No one has made mention of Warne. Pointless argument.

I am not replying to a bloke that would like Nathan Hauritz back into the team. He hardly even plays shield anymore.

Before you start bagging Lyon once again, please put forward some names of Aussie Spinners who should be in ther team ahead of him.

 

[eth-dog]

I'm sure he rates Michael Beer highly, and Xavier Doherty as well.

 

[psychobrown]

Yeah, I see it as more a popularity thing than a statement. The Lawnmower Man is one of those "honest Aussie battler" types that we oh-so-love our cricketers to be. In the end it's just a song not some sacred ritual, even the current Captain didn't see it as something to get all choked up about.

 

[Pera]

I am not replying to a bloke that would like Nathan Hauritz back into the team. He hardly even plays shield anymore.

Before you start bagging Lyon once again, please put forward some names of Aussie Spinners who should be in ther team ahead of him.

Never said I want Hauritz back. Just think he is a better test player than Lyon will ever be.

Think you are failing at interpreting my post, which means you should probably leave if you cant have a sensible conversation on an internet forum.

 

[The Finger]

Half of Lyons problem to date is that he has keepers that keep missing catches or stumpings off his bowling.

 

[Marklar_33]

even the current Captain didn't see it as something to get all choked up about.

Is that a pun?

/Simon Katich

 

[Carbine Chaos]

I'm sure he rates Michael Beer highly, and Xavier Doherty as well.

Importantly, Mickey Arthur rates Beer pretty highly.

 

[eth-dog]

Importantly, Mickey Arthur rates Beer pretty highly.

He's good, but Yazza's better

 

[Carbine Chaos]

He's good, but Yazza's better

I didn't say he was better?

 

[eth-dog]

I didn't say he was better?

I know, I just wanted to spread the Yazza love.

And I love Beery, he's an old col of my old school, as is another WA spinner.

 

[big_e]

His inability to get de Villiers and du Plessis out when bowling 40% of the overs because we were a bowler down.

80% of his wickets to me seem not him getting a batsman out with good bowling, but a batsman getting themselves out with bad batting. Anybody see him work over a batsman before getting him out with a variation ball? Nup.

Variation ball? Mate, I don't care if he bores them to death as long as he gets them out. The comparison with Brad Hogg is quite useful. Hogg's strike rate was almost 90, Lyon's is in the mid-60s. That's better than Bill O'Reilly, by the way.

He'll never be Shane Warne, he'll never be Murali, he'll never even be a MacGill. But he doesn't have to be. We just went through an exceptional period and we need to recognise it was the exception.

 

[Team DJ]

Never said I want Hauritz back. Just think he is a better test player than Lyon will ever be.

Think you are failing at interpreting my post, which means you should probably leave if you cant have a sensible conversation on an internet forum.

Please tell me who youd pick then? Who is a better Aussie spinner then Nathan Lyon.

Remember, Hauritz is hardly even playing first class cricket anymore.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Your post was fair, but this bit I didn't understand. One minute you were saying that he was still the best spinner in Australia, next your saying he is no better then everyone else?

My point being that currently Lyon is Australia's best spinner; however is no better of a bowler than the dozen or so that we trialled after Warne's retirement, and why Lyon's got to play 20 tests whilst those others (like Doherty, Beer recently but others like in the 2008-2010 period) all played less than 10 tests - they didn't get a fair go. What gets me is how everybody gets brushed aside after a few tests, but Lyon doesn't - just because he took a 5-for on debut. He is now Australia's best spinner, because he has improved by being in the test side, but why couldn't that opportunity be bestowed on anybody else? Jason Krejza could have been a great bowler had he played 20 tests and improved his game. That's just one example

 

[Phone]

nah jason krejza could not have

 

[threenewpadlocks]

nah jason krejza could not have

With 20 tests under his belt, who knows? The fact of the matter is he wasn't given that opportunity. Lyon has been.

 

[eth-dog]

My point being that currently Lyon is Australia's best spinner; however is no better of a bowler than the dozen or so that we trialled after Warne's retirement, and why Lyon's got to play 20 tests whilst those others (like Doherty, Beer recently but others like in the 2008-2010 period) all played less than 10 tests - they didn't get a fair go. What gets me is how everybody gets brushed aside after a few tests, but Lyon doesn't - just because he took a 5-for on debut. He is now Australia's best spinner, because he has improved by being in the test side, but why couldn't that opportunity be bestowed on anybody else? Jason Krejza could have been a great bowler had he played 20 tests and improved his game. That's just one example

Yeah, nah. Let's compare their FC/Test records:

Lyon: 36 matches, 96 wickets @ 38, SR 75/19 matches, 61 wickets @ 32, SR 66
Krejza: 52 matches, 112 wickets @ 48, SR 77/2 matches, 13 wickets @ 43, SR 57
Beer: 28 matches, 70 wickets @ 40, SR 59/2 matches, 3 wickets @ 59, SR 135
Hauritz: 73 matches, 170 wickets @ 42, SR 83/17 matches, 63 wickets @ 34, SR 67
Doherty: 51 matches, 119 wickets @ 45, SR 83/2 matches, 3 wickets @ 102, SR 152

Only person who has comparable stats is Hauritz. Seeing as Lyon is a better fielder, and slightly less handy with the bat, I'll take yazza

 

[Cap]

I'm sure there are people with a better understanding of all things finger spinning.

I like Lyon, I don't like the current flat bowling he does, but that has to be under instruction otherwise, why would he continue it?

My other question is, does Lyon lack a variation ball? being brought up watching leggies I'm not particuallty versed in off spin variations but he just doesn't;t seem to have any outside the stock offy - can he even bowl an arm ball?

/ignorant post about cricket