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yibbida said:
Turnballs plan has succeeded and right wing cheerleaders are happy about it....
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Who is happy? If you want to call economically rational person "right wing" then those people would suggest the NBN should never have been built at all ex maybe the country areas. Turnbull should have killed it but he lacks a spine.

Absolute dog of an idea. Worse than pink batts, green car, Ruddbank, Alice to Darwin railway. Quite the achievement.

Spending tens of billions on the provision of Game of Thrones and Call of Duty and calling it economic policy. Lets we forget what an utterly useless campaigner Wayne Swan was.
 
medusala said:
Who is happy? If you want to call economically rational person "right wing" then those people would suggest the NBN should never have been built at all ex maybe the country areas. Turnbull should have killed it but he lacks a spine.

Absolute dog of an idea. Worse than pink batts, green car, Ruddbank, Alice to Darwin railway. Quite the achievement.

Spending tens of billions on the provision of Game of Thrones and Call of Duty and calling it economic policy. Lets we forget what an utterly useless campaigner Wayne Swan was.
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Lol.
 
medusala said:
Who is happy? If you want to call economically rational person "right wing" then those people would suggest the NBN should never have been built at all ex maybe the country areas. Turnbull should have killed it but he lacks a spine.

Absolute dog of an idea. Worse than pink batts, green car, Ruddbank, Alice to Darwin railway. Quite the achievement.

Spending tens of billions on the provision of Game of Thrones and Call of Duty and calling it economic policy. Lets we forget what an utterly useless campaigner Wayne Swan was.
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The NBN had to be built. The monopoly a privatized (thanks to Howard) Telstra was given, allowed them to just sit on their hands and twiddle their thumbs and refuse to invest, and they let the old copper networks go to s**t (which Malcolm is now using for his piece of crap claytons NBN). The whole point of FTTH was to bypass the shitty copper network and undermine Telstra's monopoly power, and to deliver better broadband.

Our archaic broadband speeds are helping to stifle economic growth. Your beloved private sector were not providing sufficient outcomes. No competition, no innovation, no value for consumers. The NBN under Labor was basically going to put Telstra back into its little box and make them have to compete against other ISP's on a level playing.

But Turnbull has ****ed the whole thing up. Now Telstra hold all the cards again and the Australian consumer will be ****ed yet again. He should be voted out of office on this issue alone let alone his gutless acquiescence to the reactionary right of his own party over safe schools, gay marriage, climate change etc.
 
Showbags said:
Our archaic broadband speeds are helping to stifle economic growth.
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On what basis does a higher broadband speed increase economic growth and if it in fact does why wouldn't people be prepared to pay for it and telcos provide it? Treasury who are and were than capable of producing absurdly optimistic modelling couldn't do a cost benefit. It doesn't take a genius to work out why. It also isn't hard to work out why the productivity commission was sidelined.
 
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medusala said:
Who is happy? If you want to call economically rational person "right wing" then those people would suggest the NBN should never have been built at all ex maybe the country areas. Turnbull should have killed it but he lacks a spine.

Absolute dog of an idea. Worse than pink batts, green car, Ruddbank, Alice to Darwin railway. Quite the achievement.

Spending tens of billions on the provision of Game of Thrones and Call of Duty and calling it economic policy. Lets we forget what an utterly useless campaigner Wayne Swan was.
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I wouldn't call you economically rational if that's your opinion on the matter.
 
medusala said:
On what basis does a higher broadband speed increase economic growth and if it in fact does why wouldn't people be prepared to pay for it and telcos provide it?
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  • If broadband is quicker then people have more time for doing other productive things
  • If broadband is world-class Australian companies have a better chance of developing online business for domestic and export customers
  • If broadband is word-class there will be greater competition from overseas companies, increasing efficiency
  • If broadband is world-class then Australian data/info sharing will be more widespread and opportunities for improvement everywhere increase
  • If broadband is quicker then all the crap Turnbull talks about ("innovation", "disruption", etc) will have a better chance of happening
This **** is ****ing obvious.

But you aren't the economic expert you pretend to be - you are an ideologue with a roster of catch phrases you repeat every month, year-on-year.
 
medusala said:
On what basis does a higher broadband speed increase economic growth and if it in fact does why wouldn't people be prepared to pay for it and telcos provide it? Treasury who are and were than capable of producing absurdly optimistic modelling couldn't do a cost benefit. It doesn't take a genius to work out why. It also isn't hard to work out why the productivity commission was sidelined.
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The public cost of connecting houses ad hoc compared to methodically upgrading areas.

How would foxtel have gone if you had to pay the full connection cost before subscribing? cheaper all round to blanket install the updated infrastructure - some of the infrastructure is over 5 years old
 

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medusala said:
On what basis does a higher broadband speed increase economic growth and if it in fact does why wouldn't people be prepared to pay for it and telcos provide it? Treasury who are and were than capable of producing absurdly optimistic modelling couldn't do a cost benefit. It doesn't take a genius to work out why. It also isn't hard to work out why the productivity commission was sidelined.
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You got electric lights in your cave yet or you still using candles. :rolleyes::eek:
 
medusala said:
On what basis does a higher broadband speed increase economic growth and if it in fact does why wouldn't people be prepared to pay for it and telcos provide it? Treasury who are and were than capable of producing absurdly optimistic modelling couldn't do a cost benefit. It doesn't take a genius to work out why. It also isn't hard to work out why the productivity commission was sidelined.
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A recent study by University of Melbourne estimates the benefits of the NBN to be around 2% of GDP. That is only from efficiencies that will be found in the current system. They don't even bother to estimate new revenues that will be created from the upgrade (which could be quite substantial).

You look at Korea. They have the highest internet speeds in the world. And are often regarded as a mecca of innovation. Same with the likes of Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, Sweden, Japan etc.

The reason why the private sector didn't build the NBN is simple. They don't give a rats about economic benefits to the wider economy. They have no stake in it. Which is where the private sector fails in delivering public infrastructure.
 
Showbags said:
The NBN had to be built. The monopoly a privatized (thanks to Howard) Telstra was given, allowed them to just sit on their hands and twiddle their thumbs and refuse to invest, and they let the old copper networks go to s**t (which Malcolm is now using for his piece of crap claytons NBN). The whole point of FTTH was to bypass the shitty copper network and undermine Telstra's monopoly power, and to deliver better broadband.

Our archaic broadband speeds are helping to stifle economic growth. Your beloved private sector were not providing sufficient outcomes. No competition, no innovation, no value for consumers. The NBN under Labor was basically going to put Telstra back into its little box and make them have to compete against other ISP's on a level playing.
Click to expand...

The NBN did not have to be built. The private sector would have invested in the network to provide fast broadband where it was profitable to do so and the government could have stepped in to support less viable communities. The mistake was to think a government monopoly with an ideological has-to be-FTTP viewpoint would be more efficient than the private sector. A huge part of the problem was that we had the idiot Communications Minister Conroy butting heads against the idiot head of Telstra Sol Trujillo. With no relevant experience Conroy started a communications company that was actually a construction company and led it down the toilet. Once it commenced, Turnbull and the Libs where forced to implement an alternative NBN which has a more flexible technology mix and will have a faster rollout. But here we are in 2016, massive government spending, and hardly anyone has NBN.

I see no stifling of economic growth though.
 
Lester Burnham said:
The NBN did not have to be built. The private sector would have invested in the network to provide fast broadband where it was profitable to do so and the government could have stepped in to support less viable communities.
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yeah, like when big business built our copper network and all our roads. they were just biding their time to get their act together when big bad kevin rudd crashed their fibre infrastructure party.

no company was interested in building a network across the country. so, while it might be fun to play pretend, invent a future and ascribe a whole bunch of perfect traits to imaginary companies, it isn't much of a discussion.

Lester Burnham said:
The mistake was to think a government monopoly with an ideological has-to be-FTTP viewpoint would be more efficient than the private sector.
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i think it's a bit rich using 'ideological' here given your position is purely ideological in nature and does not represent reality or illustrate much technical knowledge whatsoever. FTTP was simply the best choice for a massive project- do it properly the first time. we'll be limping along with shitty, expensive upgrades/maintenance costs for decades now.

However, analysis published by Monash University researcher Richard Ferrers in December appears to show that the FTTP option would actually deliver better value than the FTTN alternative...

Ferrers’ analysis suggests, he wrote, that FTTP ended up being better financial value than FTTN when the NBN company’s operational expenditure and projected revenue figures were examined six and a half years after each technology was deployed.

This fact, he said, came from the fact that FTTP was significantly cheaper to run on an ongoing basis ($90 less per connection per year), but also generated more average revenue (close to $25 per month or $300 per annum per connection).

“This difference totals about $30 per month,” in favour of FTTP, Ferrers wrote. “This is a total net benefit of $390 per household per year for using FTTP over using FTTN.”

Consequently, the analyst wrote, the capital expenditure difference between the two technologies (FTTP costs about $2,300 more per premise to install than FTTN) would be earned back in 76 months — or about six and a third years.
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https://delimiter.com.au/2016/01/04...s-finances-shows-fttp-better-value-than-fttn/

Lester Burnham said:
Once it commenced, Turnbull and the Libs where forced to implement an alternative NBN
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"forced"?? are you for real? the Libs turned the NBN project into a political football and sold australia down the river to win an election. they weren't "forced" to do s**t.

Lester Burnham said:
which has a more flexible technology
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hahahaha. stop it, you're killing me.
 
Admiral Byng said:
it's only been mentioned a thousand times before in this thread, too many legacy issues prevent the private sector from building a properly functioning NBN. The mess was created by the Federal Government over the years, only a government built network can fix it.
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and these right-wing technophobes seem to be completely oblivious to issues like duplication, not to mention geographical monopoly. the US is a perfect example of what happens when a handful of companies own and control all the pipes.
 
Long Live HFC said:
the US is a perfect example of what happens when a handful of companies own and control all the pipes.
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All the right wing overlords community-minded corporate job creators get exceedingly wealthy at the expense of everyone and everything else? Seems like a dream scenario
 
Long Live HFC said:
"forced"?? are you for real? the Libs turned the NBN project into a political football and sold australia down the river to win an election. they weren't "forced" to do s**t.
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That is spot on.
 
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