National Front leads the polls in France

[Malifice]

Can you name for me the nations you know of which have imported large quantities of people with much different cultures/religions and survived?

The United States of America?

They're doing alright.

 

[Malifice]

Look at New York city FFS:

The city's population in 2010 was 44% white (33.3% non-Hispanic white), 25.5% black (23% non-Hispanic black), 0.7% Native American and 12.7% Asian.[4] Hispanics of any race represented 28.6% of the population,[4] while Asians constituted the fastest-growing segment of the city's population between 2000 and 2010; the non-Hispanic white population declined 3 percent, the smallest recorded decline in decades; and for the first time since the Civil War, the number of blacks declined over a decade.[176]

Throughout its history, the city has been a major port of entry for immigrants into the United States; more than 12 million European immigrants passed through Ellis Island between 1892 and 1924.[177] The term "melting pot" was first coined to describe densely populated immigrant neighborhoods on the Lower East Side. By 1900, Germans constituted the largest immigrant group, followed by the Irish, Jews, and Italians.[178] In 1940, whites represented 92% of the city's population.[155]

Approximately 37% of the city's population is foreign born.[179][180] In New York, no single country or region of origin dominates.[179] The ten largest sources of foreign-born individuals in the city as of 2011 were the Dominican Republic, China, Mexico, Guyana, Jamaica, Ecuador, Haiti, India, Russia, and Trinidad and Tobago,[181] while the Bangladeshi immigrant population has since become one of the fastest growing in the city, counting over 74,000 by 2013.[182] The New York region continues to be by far the leading metropolitan gateway for legal immigrants admitted into the United States, substantially exceeding the combined totals of Los Angeles and Miami, the next most popular gateway regions.[183][184][185][186]

The wider New York City metropolitan area is also ethnically diverse.[187] It is home to the largest Jewish community outside Israel.[188] The metropolitan area is also home to 20% of the nation's Indian Americans and at least 20 Little India enclaves, as well as 15% of all Korean Americans and four Koreatowns;[189][190] the largest Asian Indian population in the Western Hemisphere; the largest Russian American,[191] Italian American, and African American populations; the largest Dominican American, Puerto Rican American, and South American[191] and second-largest overall Hispanic communities in the United States; and includes 6 Chinatowns in New York City alone[192] with the urban agglomeration comprising as of the 2010 Census a population of 682,265 overseas Chinese,[189] the largest outside of Asia.[175] Multiple satellites of the original Manhattan Chinatown (紐約華埠), in Brooklyn (布鲁克林華埠), and around Flushing, Queens (法拉盛華埠), are thriving as traditionally urban enclaves, as large-scale Chinese immigration continues into New York and neighboring areas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Demographics

 

[Smiling Buddha]

The United States of America?

They're doing alright.

Is this a joke?

 

[Malifice]

Is this a joke?

How so? The most powerfull nation in human history is highly ethnically diverse.

Look at NYC as your starting point. It literally coined the term 'melting pot' and its arguably one of the greatest cities in human existence.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

So you are using the United States' propensity to invade other countries as evidence of the 'success' you think multiethnicism/culturalism brings a nation?

Looking glass.

 

[Malifice]

So you are using the United States' propensity to invade other countries as evidence of the 'success' you think multiethnicism/culturalism brings a nation?

Looking glass.

What? No I oppose their propensity to invade other nations. But thats a consequence of US (patriotism/ nationalism) and not multiculturalism.

Just the sort of nationalism that is expressed by the National Front. Invariably, nationalism leads to war.

You'd think the Europeans would have learnt this lesson by now, but sadly not it seems.

You asked: Can you name for me the nations you know of which have imported large quantities of people with much different cultures/religions and survived?

The United States (and Australia) have done just that ('imported large quantities of people with much different cultures/religions') and not only survived - but they've flourished.

Speaking of Australia, over 6 million of us werent even born in the country. Thats over 1/4 of the population.

There are issues with ethnically diverse societies, however there are positives too.

The main issue to look out for is ethnic conflicts. People seem to be stuck in this bizzare need to fear and distrust people based on the stupidist s**t - like the difference in the color of their skin, or the fact they worship a different god or wear funny clothes or speak different.

Its this stupid 'survival of the fittest/ natural selection' s**t that seems almost hardwired into people.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

You asked: Can you name for me the nations you know of which have imported large quantities of people with much different cultures/religions and survived?

Yeah and the only reason the US has survived is because it is the world's superpower, one which stamps out all opposition overtly and/or covertly. Once they lose reserve currency status (whether it is in two years or two decades) what do you predict will happen over there? Their own agencies are preparing for civil war and rightly so.

You make a good point though. America has technically 'survived' despite its mass immigration. But who would envy their incarceration rates? Their poverty rates? Their crime rates?

Speaking of Australia, over 6 million of us werent even born in the country. Thats over 1/4 of the population.

1) How many were born in countries with similar values/religions/customs as the predominant white population?

2) How do you think Australia would go in a serious economic downturn? You think it would be all roses in places like Western Sydney?

It is one thing for everybody to apparently get along when the bread and circuses are flowing. Take that away as in Europe right now and look what you get.

 

[Malifice]

Yeah and the only reason the US has survived is because it is the world's superpower, one which stamps out all opposition overtly and/or covertly.

So a country of migrants from ethnically diverse nations... became the worlds only superpower?

Are you asserting that they became a superpower in spite of their ethnic diversity?

Once they lose reserve currency status (whether it is in two years or two decades) what do you predict will happen over there? Their own agencies are preparing for civil war and rightly so.

The USA is driven by money. Civil war isnt good for buisiness. It wont happen.

You underestimate the USA. They didnt get where they are today by fluke.

You make a good point though. America has technically 'survived' despite its mass immigration. But who would envy their incarceration rates? Their poverty rates? Their crime rates?

False reasoning here mate. Incarceration, poverty and crime are not the result of a multi-ethnic society. All the above are caused by economics, not by race or ethnicity. The common denominator is lack of opportunities and wealth.

If anything, ethnic groups tend to associate within the same ethnic group (although there are some noteable exceptions). Oddly this includes crime. African Americans who kill, tend to kill other African Americans. 'White' American serial killers tend to kill 'white' women, and so forth.

1) How many were born in countries with similar values/religions/customs as the predominant white population?

Again, slightly false reasoning.

Would you consider France, Germany and the UK to have 'similar values, religions and customs' as each other?

If so, explain why they have been at each others throats on and off regularly since coming into existence, and remain responsible for he bloodiest two wars of human existance (all in the last century).

2) How do you think Australia would go in a serious economic downturn? You think it would be all roses in places like Western Sydney?

Things werent that rosy economically around 25 odd years ago when unemplyment was over 10% mate, and I dont recall any race riots. Oddly, we seemed to have race riots after economic recovery and smack in the middle of a boom.

We did that ass about face. Go figure.

It is one thing for everybody to apparently get along when the bread and circuses are flowing. Take that away as in Europe right now and look what you get.

Definately agree that the precondition for nationalism is economic problems. Look at the Weimar Republic in Germany during the great depression for the perfect example. We all know what happened there. And what happened to ethnic minorities like the Roma (and of course the Jews) in Europe then.

In times of economic woe, people get frustrated. They then start (irrationally) blaming ethnic minorities for their problems, and call for a more centralised State (note this is particularly ironic as its always the State that got them into the economic mess in the first place).

The result of increased nationalism is invariably the persecution of ethnic minorities within, and war with external nations.

Its completely irrational and totally counterproductive.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

The USA is driven by money. Civil war isnt good for buisiness. It wont happen.

Lol. You know there are (at least) two sides in a civil war, right?

The establishment does not want a civil war. But they know it is inevitable and are preparing for it accordingly.

Slowly but surely the peons are waking up to it as well.

False reasoning here mate. Incarceration, poverty and crime are not the result of a multi-ethnic society. All the above are caused by economics, not by race or ethnicity.

Have you seen the demographic stats on crime, poverty and incarceration?

Would you consider France, Germany and the UK to have 'similar values, religions and customs' as each other?

Compared to, say, Muslim nations/peoples then yes I certainly would. Wouldn't you?

If so, explain why they have been at each others throats on and off regularly since coming into existence, and remain responsible for he bloodiest two wars of human existance (all in the last century).

Bankers. This is obvious.

Things werent that rosy economically around 25 odd years ago when unemplyment was over 10% mate, and I dont recall any race riots.

First, things have changed dramatically since then. Not only has immigration increased markedly but the breakdown of new arrivals by country/continent has also changed considerably.

 

[Malifice]

Lol. You know there are (at least) two sides in a civil war, right? The establishment does not want a civil war. But they know it is inevitable and are preparing for it accordingly.

There will not be a civil war in the United States. Its not good for the bottom line. The 'establishment' simply wont let it happen.

Have you seen the demographic stats on crime, poverty and incarceration?

Yep. Poverty is the common link between crime and incarceration rates. Ethnicity is not.

People dont commit crimes because they are black, white or brown or whatever. They do it cause they are poor and desperate.

Compared to, say, Muslim nations/peoples then yes I certainly would. Wouldn't you?

And where has all that that 'cultural/ religious/ ethnic' similarity gotten Europe? Start with the 20th century and WW1 and 2 and work your way backwards.

Europeans are their own worst enemies. But hey, they'll keep ignoring the obvious and blaming a tiny minority of Roma, Jews or Muslims (or whomever) who havent actually done all that much wrong (if indeed theyve done anything wrong at all).

Bankers. This is obvious.

Don't you mean 'the Jews'?

First, things have changed dramatically since then. Not only has immigration increased markedly but the breakdown of new arrivals by country/continent has also changed considerably.

Not according to the Census:

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/3412.02011-12 and 2012-13?OpenDocument

There have been some changes, but I dont see any changes I would consider 'dramatic'.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

If you were not a mod I would report you for that implication.

It was my mistake to take you seriously and one I won't repeat.

 

[Malifice]

If you were not a mod I would report you for that implication.

Its an oft repeated false corellation that 'international bankers' caused WW2. Almost invariably this has very antisemitic undertones. Google it. Or just head to Stormfront for a rehash of the conspiracy theories. Jews run the banks, elders of Zion and all that jazz.

I retract my statement if this wasnt what you were on about, and apoligise for any offence.

So can you care to explain how 'international bankers' were responsible for... Hitler?

Like how did they put all those ultra nationalist ideas in his head and how did those bankers convince Germans to also believe it and vote him in to power?

 

[Malifice]

Remember mate, the State regulates the economy (and the Banks). The tail doesnt wag the dog (or at least it shouldnt).

If a countries economic situation goes pear shaped, thats the fault of the State, not the Banks.

Intrestingly when economic woes happen, you generally see Nationalism rise (counter intuitively, seeing as it was the States fault to begin with!), and minorities get blamed (minorities who had nothing to do with the economic woes at all).

This generally ends in misery. First for the ethnic minority, then for the majority.

Nationalist States are the weakest States in existence (ironically). States that place an emphasis on personal liberty at the expense of the State... have stronger States (and vice versa; States that place the emphasis on the State at the expense of personal liberty are weaker States, and generally dont last very long).

 

[MaddAdam]

Can you name for me the nations you know of which have imported large quantities of people with much different cultures/religions and survived?

I'm genuinely curious to know if it has been done, especially in contemporary times.

The United States of America. Australia.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

The United States of America.

Yes, okay, the US has survived. So far.

Would you want our country to look anything like theirs?

Australia.

Were the Europeans so different to the whites who were already here? I don't think so.

How long have we been mass importing central Asians and Africans?

Far too early to declare this wave of immigration a success.

 

[MaddAdam]

Yes, okay, the US has survived. So far.

Would you want our country to look anything like theirs?

Were the Europeans so different to the whites who were already here? I don't think so.

How long have we been mass importing central Asians and Africans?

Far too early to declare this wave of immigration a success.

You do understand the US is the richest, most powerful nation in human history?

I think you also underestimate just what an impact the post war migration from Europe had on Australia. We've been there, done that, prospered.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

I think you also underestimate just what an impact the post war migration from Europe had on Australia. We've been there, done that, prospered.

Where was that post-war migration from? My understanding is that it was largely made up of Europeans whose heritage was not so different to the predominantly white population which was welcoming them.

Big difference between that and what is going on today.

 

[MaddAdam]

Where was that post-war migration from? My understanding is that it was largely made up of Europeans whose heritage was not so different to the predominantly white population which was welcoming them.

Big difference between that and what is going on today.

No, lots of Southern Europeans who were as alien to the existing almost exclusively Anglo-Celtic as some of the people arriving now.

Read "They're A Weird Mob"

 

[Smiling Buddha]

No, lots of Southern Europeans who were as alien to the existing almost exclusively Anglo-Celtic as some of the people arriving now.

Well that is just nonsense and you know it.

Read "They're A Weird Mob"

On your recommendation it has been added to my 'to read' list.

 

[MaddAdam]

Well that is just nonsense and you know it.

On your recommendation it has been added to my 'to read' list.

It isn't nonsense and this stuff is within living memory. The Greeks and Southern Italians especially who arrived were seen as truly alien.

 

[medusala]

Entirely. A protest vote in the EU elections is very different from an actual national election.

I agree with you. Electoral system is against them. They will never win a run off.

 

[medusala]

medusala will be happy.

Yep. Good man is Nigel. Did you see photo of Nick Clegg? Looked like he had been crying. Snivelling twit.

 

[MaddAdam]

I agree with you. Electoral system is against them. They will never win a run off.

Yep, we've been there before, CBF looking up the year, but Le Pen pere beat the Socialist candidate so everyone voted for Chirac in the runoff to keep Le Pen out.

 

[medusala]

Yep, we've been there before, CBF looking up the year, but Le Pen pere beat the Socialist candidate so everyone voted for Chirac in the runoff to keep Le Pen out.

Interesting thing in UK is whether UKIP vote will return to tories. Also surprising was how well they did up North and even won a seat in Scotland.

I wonder if immigration laws across Europe will change due to these election results.

 

[The Dice Man]

Is this a joke?

It must be.

France will become more and more hard core and will lean on their neighbors to the east more and more, as old enemies begin to see each other as useful for their own futures.

France is quite open, but the people are sick of paying for bludgers. It's real and it's happening.