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New direction at St Kilda?

Discussion in 'St Kilda' started by mysainters, Nov 27, 2012.

Put it out there
  1. mysainters

    mysainters Club Legend

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    Thought this is an interesting discussion and would like your opinions...

    Jack Steven cops an internal suspension for one week and a fine for drink driving
    Jason Gram receives internal suspension which leads to subsequent sacking
    Regardless of the fact there was no admission, Scott reiterates clubs respect for women after airport incident and pledges donation to charity
    Milne cops a fine and is forced to apologise for poor on field language
    Winmar gets cut after a less than favourable effort in his time trial and not being in adequate shape

    There are probably more examples that I can't think of right now, but the club seems suddenly serious and not about to give people a little slap on the wrist.

    It really appears that on field and off field, standards are being set....

    Not to slam Ross, but I think Scott is much more rounded in his ability to coach, well at least when it comes to off field. Ross is probably better at it now as a result of learning on the job with us.

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  2. Sunshine Saint

    Sunshine Saint All Australian

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    Good question to pose. When outlined as you have, there is a new broom sweeping through the Saints. And as you have shown from your list, there is a consistency in following up problems and enforcing a code of conduct that has been lacking.

    Time will show, but I am very thankful that not only Lyin left, but that we started late and missed Neeld etc and instead selected Watters. I think we will find that he will get better and better. I do admire not only how focused he is, but his steely determination in enforcing a widespread professionalism in all areas of operations.

    Happy Days.
  3. hayes

    hayes Club Legend

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    Been saying it almost since he got here, Watters has been a god-send.
  4. tbarker

    tbarker All Australian

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    Like a breath of fresh air.
    Defacto likes this.
  5. saintsrfreak

    saintsrfreak Club Legend

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    TBH I can't really remember any incident under Ross that only got a "slap on the wrist"?
  6. Defacto

    Defacto Club Legend

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    pelchen certainly is worth every cent. i feel we finally have the right people in the right positions making the right decisions. future looks bloody bright!!!
  7. mysainters

    mysainters Club Legend

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    The entire bubble concept was about shielding players from scrutiny and backlash, it was akin to the naughty corner.
  8. NarklesHelmet

    NarklesHelmet All Australian

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    I always thought the bubble as a concept (and it is used successfully in many sports, across many cultures) was more about creating an "us against the world" type of mentality. It also tries to shield players from the media and the hype and hassles that goes with it while at the same time creating a special unity and team spirit for those inside of it. I'm not so sure that players and their punishments are necessarily less under a "bubble" model, just that punishments are meted out behind closed doors and away from media vultures and other prying eyes.

    The thing is, I don't think that the bubble and an "us against the world" mentality is a problem at all, especially for a team like the Saints that have little historical success. In fact I think it was really good for us at the time and was happy that Lyon created it for us. The only time when the bubble is criticised is when the teams on-field success suffers. The bubble is very dependent on team success to justify the pains and siege mentality that come with building and policing it it - a classic means justify the ends situation.

    The bubble was fantastic for us when we had it. I don't believe it contributed adversely to player behaviour (though the media, denied access to our players and thoroughly peeved about this, would like us all to believe differently :rolleyes:). I also think that the bubble's time has passed and am very happy that we have someone like Watters in charge to lead us into a different, more open future.
  9. sammm

    sammm All Australian

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    the KD issue was the biggest, and i fle tthey created the bubble forbecuase of this as it went on and on for more then 1 year.
  10. aussierulesrules

    aussierulesrules Club Legend

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    I'm perfectly OK with more of a "zero tolerance" approach to bullshit and anyone not towing the line. It may still be a "footy club", but it is also a multi-million dollar professional organisation and we need to be sure that everyone who is employed by us acts, behaves and performs accordingly.

    Anyone that doesn't want to meet those standards is perfectly free to leave and go to a place that isn't a multi-million dollar professional organisation, or that has lower standards. There's the door >

    I'm loving this new direction, including the apparent drafting prerequisite that everyone we draft/pick up from other clubs needs to have strong character and work ethic. It sounds like our footy club may be really growing up! :) :thumbsu:
  11. mysainters

    mysainters Club Legend

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    I disagree.

    The bubble was fantastic at the time, but long term (and this is just my opinion) I think it left the guys very broken.

    Shielding, hiding, rallying is all very inspiring at the time, but it did not help them in the long run. The guys became hugely paranoid, defensive, unable to tolerate even meeting with fans and/or journos.

    That would be like me building a bunker in the backyard and hiding out there every time things got hard.

    I don't think you'll find many other clubs employing a bubble anytime soon, again just my opinion.
    hayes likes this.

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  12. cartwright

    cartwright Team Captain

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    without looking in rear view mirrors too much, I think if one of those GF's went our way, things would be percieved differently.

    Either way, happy with the way things are being managed presently.
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  13. mysainters

    mysainters Club Legend

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    That's cool...

    I guess I was never happy with the bubble, and to be fair, I was always vocal that I didn't like the aspect of the club hiding itself away from young supporters and fans.

    I also believe the club had the talent to be successful regardless, and put very little of it down to the bubble.
    aussierulesrules likes this.
  14. Burgermeister

    Burgermeister Draftee

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    Liked it better when we were having "culture issues" but were making it to Grand Finals to be honest...
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  15. mysainters

    mysainters Club Legend

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    Don't remember making grand finals in Lyons first year...
  16. Burgermeister

    Burgermeister Draftee

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    Don't remember much in the way of off-field issues in Lyon's first year either. :)
  17. Persevering Saint

    Persevering Saint Club Legend

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    I think Ross emphasised strict standards where the footy was concerned - almost exclusively. His discipline and demands on that were crazy huge. That caused several problems: it meant that players performing well on the field felt they could get away with more off it. And I think those who simply couldn't perform at that level yet - our kids - were made to feel so neglected they played up.
    SainterK likes this.
  18. mysainters

    mysainters Club Legend

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    True that, he made up for it in the last few years huh ;)
  19. saintsrfreak

    saintsrfreak Club Legend

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    Yes the club could've handled it better, but that instance didn't involve players that deserved to be punished.

    Lovett is charged with rape - sacked immediately
    Dawson, Steven and others stuff up on the NZ trip - each player suspended
    Malthouse calls Milne a rapist and then lies about it - Milne apologizes

    I just don't see where SainterK is coming from, IIRC any player that did something wrong under Lyon was punished accordingly.

    I am however, very impressed with the club's emphasis on drafting players with good character.
  20. mysainters

    mysainters Club Legend

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    Lovett would NEVER have been drafted in the first place under Scott, he certainly wouldn't of got a second chance after the drunk and disorderly. I doubt he would of looked so closely at Cousins either.

    I still think Bakes had way too long a leash under Ross, was involved in a night club scuffle and also another altercation while out for dinner.

    Dawson also seemed to get a soft ride discipline wise, if it was up to me, being so much older than the other guys in NZL, he should of been made an example of.

    He defended Roo when he sledged Lovett, I'm pretty confident Scott would of made Nick apologise.

    I'm sure there is more if I think about it...
  21. NarklesHelmet

    NarklesHelmet All Australian

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    That was my whole point, it (the bubble and it's many different incarnations) is something used by sports clubs/organisations to try and get that extra 1-10% out of their players at that time. As I mentioned in the first post, it isn't a viable option long-term because it can create a siege mentality in the players and is mentally exhausting. Of course Watters knew that. Besides, he is his own man, could you have imagined him coming in and saying to the players and media "We're not going to change a thing, the bubble stays." It just wouldn't happen.

    I often remember the way Leigh Matthews did things when coaching Collingwood. Back then the Pies had serious problems winning premierships and finals. As an outsider, he came in and, especially around finals time, made sure that the players were cocooned in a type of "bubble" from the hype. It worked a treat and they broke their massive drought. Sometimes clubs (and I believe St Kilda was one of them at the time when Lyon was in charge) need to insulate players from outside pressures to ensure there are no distractions. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how behavior of the Saints or any other club has changed over all the years I have followed them, bubble or not. But I have seen the media change over the years, and for the worse. The number of Melbourne footy journos have expanded and this means they need more to write about to justify their existence. That's how you get such deplorable reporting as what happened with Duthie (and let's be honest, that was the biggest "scandal" that occurred under Lyon's watch and the one most often referenced by St Kilda critics to demonstrate or inferior "culture).

    I think Watters has been fantastic in the way he presents to the football world in an articulate, intelligent and honest way. I think he shows potential as a tactician. I think he seems to have a way with younger players and is already developing players better than Lyon did over his whole tenure. In a nutshell, I am ecstatic we have him as coach. He is a gem. The least of his achievements is opening up the culture. It was a no-brainer for him to do it as he needed to forge his own path and he'd be pretty dense if he thought a good way to forge his teams identity would be the same as his predecessors. There is more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to doing this and Watters has taken the only path available: that is burst the bubble and open the club up to the footy world.
    Sunshine Saint likes this.
  22. Smoke_Me_AKipper

    Smoke_Me_AKipper All Australian

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    I think Watters has been fantastic in the way he presents to the football world in an articulate, intelligent and honest way. I think he shows potential as a tactician. I think he seems to have a way with younger players and is already developing players better than Lyon did over his whole tenure. In a nutshell, I am ecstatic we have him as coach. He is a gem. The least of his achievements is opening up the culture. It was a no-brainer for him to do it as he needed to forge his own path and he'd be pretty dense if he thought a good way to forge his teams identity would be the same as his predecessors. There is more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to doing this and Watters has taken the only path available: that is burst the bubble and open the club up to the footy world.[/quote]

    Agree that Watters is superb on a number of fronts. Big big fan. Been lucky enough to see him talk live at least 3 times now and he is very impressive! I think after Lyon and the GF losses the whole club 'needed a cuddle' and Scotty Watters came in and essentially did just that. How many times did we hear in the media about Saints player being 'more energised' or 'refreshed' or 'enjoying their football again' last season...

    Re being a tactician - don't underestimate Laidley's influence here. He is known as a master tactician - one of the best. I was rapt when he joined the coaching team. A number of times we were either getting beaten or not playing well in thre 1st half. After half time we came out with different tactics and played better. Together they are a great team!!
  23. NarklesHelmet

    NarklesHelmet All Australian

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    Agree with this. We've actually chosen two really good coaches in a row - in different ways. Watters can hopefully consolidate and take forward the work done in the Lyon years. We are well placed with him in charge now. As supporters we should be happy with the coaching choices that we have made because we made some poor ones over a long, long period. :thumbsu:

    I'm also a big fan of the Watters/Laidley combo. I think in a couple of years when we look back at a drought breaking premiership win (I really believe it is coming) we will see that this combo played a big part in it as they complement each other very well and I believe it will only get better this year and in the years to come if they stay together.
  24. saintsrfreak

    saintsrfreak Club Legend

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    Hopefully Laidley doesn't get poached though, wasn't there word of Collingwood being interested in him?
  25. NarklesHelmet

    NarklesHelmet All Australian

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    Geez, I hope not, you would think that they wouldn't need him as they have Eade although Bucks probably needs all the help he can get in the coaches box so they might just need him.
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