Other New Patriots Scandal - DeflateGate

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AmericanCrow said:
If you think for one second had Brady taken his medicine and not directed the NFLPA to appeal the decision that the NFLPA would have gone off on their own and appealed it out of some sort of principle you are kidding yourself. This is Brady driven and nothing more.

He will fold up like a cheap lawn chair and settle this thing. Just you watch.
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If you believe you're innocent, why in the hell would you take your medicine? Brady has the means to personally fund a court battle and he's protecting his reputation. Seems like the perfect whale hunt to me.

Clearly, you're ignoring the wider play here. This isn't Brady vs. the NFL. This is the NFLPA vs. the NFL for the end game.
 
Galactic said:
Lol what are you talking about there? I doubt it.
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Since I don't know anything and all according to a few fella's on here, perhaps this article will help lay out how it is in his best interests to do what the Judge asked and get it settled. If he has any sort of decent representation they will have a come to jesus discussion with him. I stand by my opinion that he will cop to 2 games.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...l-in-court-legal-experts-say-its-a-long-shot/


David Cornwell, an attorney who has represented NFL players in a variety of cases and a former candidate for executive director of the NFLPA, said when asked about Brady’s chances of success in court: “None.”

“It appears the process complied with Article 46,” Cornwell said. “What is granted to the commissioner is absolute authority to protect the integrity of the game. It is a hard and fast rule. He’s obligated to be fair, to not be arbitrary and capricious. You have to show fraud or undue bias to overturn an arbitration. You can’t do that here.”
 
ausbacker said:
If you believe you're innocent, why in the hell would you take your medicine? Brady has the means to personally fund a court battle and he's protecting his reputation. Seems like the perfect whale hunt to me.

Clearly, you're ignoring the wider play here. This isn't Brady vs. the NFL. This is the NFLPA vs. the NFL for the end game.
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Except it isn't...the collective bargaining agreement doesn't expire until 2020. You are dreaming if you think it is about that.
 

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AmericanCrow said:
Except it isn't...the collective bargaining agreement doesn't expire until 2020. You are dreaming if you think it is about that.
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You're right. Who would possibly start forward planning for future negotiations by moving strategically in advance? What an utterly absurd concept.
 
. “What is granted to the commissioner is absolute authority to protect the integrity of the game. It is a hard and fast rule. He’s obligated to be fair, to not be arbitrary and capricious. You have to show fraud or undue bias to overturn an arbitration. You can’t do that here.”

I'm sorry am I missing something here? This is clearly the case no?
 
ausbacker said:
You're right. Who would possibly start forward planning for future negotiations by moving strategically in advance? What an utterly absurd concept.
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We agree to disagree, it is all good. Personally, I think he is damn lucky the Judge is giving him the opportunity to work it out. I still think he loses his injunction attempt just like I thought the forum shopping attempt was short circuited by the NLF and was doomed to fail.

Although the offenses are very different Mr. Brady reminds me more and more every day of Peter Edward Rose. Two guys whose pride got in the way of themselves. Peter swore up and down and on his mother's grave he did nothing wrong to.
 
Galactic said:
. “What is granted to the commissioner is absolute authority to protect the integrity of the game. It is a hard and fast rule. He’s obligated to be fair, to not be arbitrary and capricious. You have to show fraud or undue bias to overturn an arbitration. You can’t do that here.”

I'm sorry am I missing something here? This is clearly the case no?
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If you'd like a counter to AmericanCrow's link, Stephanie Stradley offers some excellent, unbiased legal opinions here. She's doing an admirable job explaining things much in the same vein as Sally Jenkins of the Washington Post.
 
Galactic said:
. “What is granted to the commissioner is absolute authority to protect the integrity of the game. It is a hard and fast rule. He’s obligated to be fair, to not be arbitrary and capricious. You have to show fraud or undue bias to overturn an arbitration. You can’t do that here.”

I'm sorry am I missing something here? This is clearly the case no?
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No--there is no fraud whatsoever. How are you going to show undue bias when the NFLPA agreed to the formula upon which he was suspended? Essentially, that argument is going to be---"it is unfair because the Commissioner is biased--even though we collectively bargained to agree to have the Commissioner do what he did".

It isn't going to get you very far
 
AmericanCrow said:
We agree to disagree, it is all good. Personally, I think he is damn lucky the Judge is giving him the opportunity to work it out. I still think he loses his injunction attempt just like I thought the forum shopping attempt was short circuited by the NLF and was doomed to fail.

Although the offenses are very different Mr. Brady reminds me more and more every day of Peter Edward Rose. Two guys whose pride got in the way of themselves. Peter swore up and down and on his mother's grave he did nothing wrong to.
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I would probably agree with you had I not come to my own conclusions when I read The Wells Report. Theres nothing, and I do mean nothing in that document that leads me to believe Brady or the Patriots acted inappropriately. I've also gone on record saying if a more than reasonable argument is put forward and upheld in a court of law, I'll accept it.
 
ausbacker said:
If you'd like a counter to AmericanCrow's link, Stephanie Stradley offers some excellent, unbiased legal opinions here. She's doing an admirable job explaining things much in the same vein as Sally Jenkins of the Washington Post.
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There will always be legal opinions to the contrary, it is what lawyers do. The vast majority of lawyers will tell you that he faces an uphill climb and his best option is to take the life line the judge just gave him.

The cool thing is we get to see it play out if he decides not to.
 
AmericanCrow said:
No--there is no fraud whatsoever. How are you going to show undue bias when the NFLPA agreed to the formula upon which he was suspended? Essentially, that argument is going to be---"it is unfair because the Commissioner is biased--even though we collectively bargained to agree to have the Commissioner do what he did".

It isn't going to get you very far
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I understand where your coming from on the ruling but the process was in fact bias also should note previous rulings being downgraded
 
I will say this to Pat fans...if Jimmy G starts slinging it around the first few weeks and puts up some W's it will make me even more mad at the current Browns FO then I already am. ;)
 

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Galactic said:
I understand where your coming from on the ruling but the process was in fact bias also should note previous rulings being downgraded
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Lot of play being made on that but the union has not been quite as successful as it sometimes is played up. Hardy, for example, is often portrayed as a union "victory" but in reality it was simply the appeals process at work.

Doty's decision on Peterson can be construed as a "victory" but it is also still up on appeal in the circuit court. Regardless of whether it eventually gets overturned or not---at least the union had a reasonable argument in that case.

I just don't see it in this one.
 
Galactic said:
I have a soft spot for the browns actually unless they play us of coarse :) Thats one fan base that deserves a SB after all this time
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Who said we couldn't agree on something? :p
 
AmericanCrow said:
Lot of play being made on that but the union has not been quite as successful as it sometimes is played up. Hardy, for example, is often portrayed as a union "victory" but in reality it was simply the appeals process at work.

Doty's decision on Peterson can be construed as a "victory" but it is also still up on appeal in the circuit court. Regardless of whether it eventually gets overturned or not---at least the union had a reasonable argument in that case.

I just don't see it in this one.
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Do you think Goodell has too much power under the current deal? Forgetting this case? I find it pretty draconian and didn't know the extent till now personally.
 
Galactic said:
Do you think Goodell has too much power under the current deal? Forgetting this case? I find it pretty draconian and didn't know the extent till now personally.
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Of course. The NFLPA was a bunch of jackalopes to allow this system in place. But here is the harsh reality of it:

1) the NFLPA was broken in 1987 and has never really recovered since.

2) the VAST majority of players (95%) don't care about this issue whatsoever because it would never effect them. From their perspective it is like "who cares if Goodell is judge jury and executioner it won't ever have an impact on me...but by god this pension needs to be fixed".

I suspect it will be adjusted some in 2020 but don't expect the Commissioner to lose final say---Owners will never ever stand for that, including Kraft.
 
Galactic said:
Questions I really wanted answered are

Who gave the false info to mort and why him
why was the nfl the get away driver of false info by not releasing it till after wells interviewed the patriots
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I think the simple explanation is Rodger doesn't like being lied to. Or at the very least he doesn't like to think he's been lied to.

My guess is when the Colts & Ravens (& maybe others) reported this issue to the NFL, Rodger picked up the phone and asked Kraft to find out what was going on. As any team would the Pats denied it. I'm not sure the NFL took it seriously either given their lack of preparedness in checking on match day.

Then the NFL got wind of shenanigans during the game. Whether those shenanigans amount to tampering is obviously debatable but I'm guessing it was enough to make Rodger feel like he'd been played again.

If you want to get a right royal whack from Goodell's NFL, you hurt Rodger's feelings.
 
lol^

Kensil has had it in for Belichick since the Jets days in the 90s, Goodell has since Spygate too. The NFL were happy to let this false report sit out there. Brady was under the impression 11 of 12 footballs were 2 PSI under. No wonder he was so uncomfortable at the press conference and said he isn't a cheat to his knowledge. He was wondering how the F the foootballs were 2 psi under as he was led to believe by the baloney leaks. They were hardly under the range, if at all.

This is very messy and a lot of people will have reputations ruined. I hope Brady sues Goodell and Kinsel for defamation when is all said and done.
 
WhyAlwaysMe said:
lol^

Kensil has had it in for Belichick since the Jets days in the 90s, Goodell has since Spygate too. The NFL were happy to let this false report sit out there. Brady was under the impression 11 of 12 footballs were 2 PSI under. No wonder he was so uncomfortable at the press conference and said he isn't a cheat to his knowledge. He was wondering how the F the foootballs were 2 psi under as he was led to believe by the baloney leaks. They were hardly under the range, if at all.

This is very messy and a lot of people will have reputations ruined. I hope Brady sues Goodell and Kinsel for defamation when is all said and done.
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The defamation case looks like Bradys best play I think after its sorted assuming he's innocent.
 
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