Other New Patriots Scandal - DeflateGate

[kirky]

All balls leave Wilson factory, pre-packaged at between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds, and Wilson attests to the quality assurance that all balls will last for two years at that pressure if untampered with.

And yet we can scientific evidence that says otherwise.

Let's wait and see the outcome. If we are guilty then we accept the consequences but somehow if the outcome isn't to your satisfaction you won't accept it. Just a gut feel.

Off to the U.S. tomorrow. You beauty!

 

[JeffDunne]

Still Pats fans can't answer why there'd be a conspiracy against them.

Also, Bill is not a physicist. His explanation of ball deflation is not backed by an expert or science.

I'm confused too re: the discussion on the 90 secs in the toilet & whether there was time to deflate the balls. Couldn't he have just replaced the balls in the bag with 12 others already prepared? As far as I can tell there is no ready identifier to ensure he brought out the same balls he took in.

 

[Gmod23]

Still Pats fans can't answer why there'd be a conspiracy against them.

Also, Bill is not a physicist. His explanation of ball deflation is not backed by an expert or science.

I'm confused too re: the discussion on the 90 secs in the toilet & whether there was time to deflate the balls. Couldn't he have just replaced the balls in the bag with 12 others already prepared? As far as I can tell there is no ready identifier to ensure he brought out the same balls he took in.

That is my theory too.... much easier and faster than actually tampering.

 

[Simple Jack]

Still Pats fans can't answer why there'd be a conspiracy against them.

Also, Bill is not a physicist. His explanation of ball deflation is not backed by an expert or science.

I'm confused too re: the discussion on the 90 secs in the toilet & whether there was time to deflate the balls. Couldn't he have just replaced the balls in the bag with 12 others already prepared? As far as I can tell there is no ready identifier to ensure he brought out the same balls he took in.

The refs mark all the balls to be used. They also mark the kicking ones with a K. I'm not sure at which point they are marked but I assume it's when they receive and check them.

 

[JeffDunne]

The refs mark all the balls to be used. They also mark the kicking ones with a K. I'm not sure at which point they are marked but I assume it's when they receive and check them.

I was meaning more like a serial number or something not easily duplicated.

Last week on NOLA radio an official was discussing the handling of balls pre game. What I got from that conversation is their involvement is minimal, oversight mainly, it's very routine and it would be easy to pass off any fraud as nobody's looking for it.

This is the issue I'd have if arguing for the Pats. If the NFL were tipped off then how in the hell was someone allowed to take the balls into the toilet without the balls being checked then and there? Also, why wait until the start of the 3rd quarter to check them? If the NFL knew and were looking for it then they should have found evidence when the Pats were doing it - not looking for it weeks later.

I'm in no doubt someone deflated those balls (or only initially inflated them to that pressure).

As far the NFL's motives in this? I can't work that out.

Incompetence would seem the best explanation.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Actually not Barry. Mannings number 2006 and before are not that different to those 2007 and after. Look them up yourself.

One of the great lessons of the steroid saga in baseball was how the numbers went up tremendously and the stats people said hey something is wrong.

I don't know what numbers you're looking at but if we have to go to numbers I like Pro Reference advanced passer rating index. 100 is average for the league for that particular year. So 110 is 10% above average, 85% is 15% below etc.

Anyway here's a comparison....not much difference ...Brady decline 3 years running until this season (Gronk healthy) and prior to this season, decline in 5 of the last 7 years. Manning improved in his first two Denver seasons. Maybe the deflated balls don't work, hence the big 2nd half against Colts.

BRADY                                                          MANNING

YEAR    AGE    RATING    % CHANGE        YEAR    AGE    RATING    % CHANGE
2003*+    26    107                               2003*+    27    124
2004*+    27    115    7.0%                   2004*+    28    151    17.9%
2005*+    28    114    -0.9%                 2005*+    29    129    -17.1%
2006*    29    109    -4.6%                      2006*    30    126    -2.4%
2007*    30    148    26.4%                     2007*    31    122    -3.3%
2008*+    32    116    -27.6%                2008*+    32    114    -7.0%
2009*+    33    130    10.8%                2009*+    33    120    5.0%
2010*    34    127    -2.4%                  2010*    34    109    -10.1%
2012*+    35    116    -9.5%                2012*+    36    125    12.8%
2013*+    36    101    -14.9%              2013*+    37    137    8.8%
2014*    37    113    10.6%        2014*    38    118    -16.1%

 

[Exe Gesis]

Kurt Warner says he now wonders if Pats gained unfair edge in Super Bowl XXXVI
Posted by Curtis Crabtree on January 27, 2015, 9:03 PM EST

Getty Images
The Patriots 20-17 victory over the St. Louis Rams in Super Bowl XXXVI was the first of three titles for Tom Brady and Bill Belichick in New England.

Adam Vinatieri’s 48-yard game-winning field goal denied Kurt Warner and the Rams a second Super Bowl title in three seasons.

On the heels of Deflategate and Spygate, Warner said Tuesday that he now has at least a little shred of doubt as to whether the Patriots win to cap the 2001-02 season was all on the up-and up.

In an interview with Dave Mahler of Sports Radio 950 KJR at Super Bowl XLIX Media Day on Tuesday, Warner said he now has to wonder whether the Patriots may have used an unfair edge to their advantage to earn that first Super Bowl.

“I don’t want to believe that there was anything outside of his team beat our team,” Warner said in regards to his reaction to Deflategate. “That’s what I want to believe. Yeah, there’s a sliver of a doubt because I think, as a human, you can’t help it. To know that if you were a part of that process at that time, was there any advantage they gained in any game, not just our Super Bowl game, but maybe a game before that to get to the Super Bowl? I mean, all those things enter your mind.

“It’s not because I’m bitter. It’s not because I say they cheated, because I have no idea, but it adds a sliver of doubt that I think is unfair to everybody. It’s unfair to them and their legacy. It’s unfair to me and my legacy because I don’t want to have to wonder, well did they beat me fair and square or was there something extra? And that’s the unfortunate part that I don’t think you’ll ever get over because you know something was done outside the rules. I don’t know how it helped them. I don’t know if it gave them an advantage on one play – that turned into an interception or a touchdown – or it gave them no advantage. I don’t know.

“I don’t want to talk about it. I want to know that I got beat fair and square. That’s the spirit of fair competition. That’s what I believe every time I step between the lines is that I’ve got to beat that guy across from me. And if I’m better, I will do that. If I’m not, I won’t. But now when you add other things to the mix, now all it does is give you a little bit of a doubt. That’s what I’m saying. It’s unfair I don’t look at it that way because I try to fight against it because we’re never going to know, but it’s unfortunate that I even have to consider it.”

 

[Exe Gesis]

Low standard of proof applies to #DeflateGate
Posted by Mike Florio on January 27, 2015, 7:57 PM EST

Getty Images
It’s still not known what the NFL specifically has found, or will find, in the #DeflateGate investigation. It is known that, when the time comes to assess the evidence, a low threshold will determine the outcome.

Per a league source, the “preponderance of the evidence” standard applies in cases involving allegations of conduct that undermines the integrity of the game. That comes from the league policy manual given to every team.

It’s the standard that applies in civil litigation, a “more-likely-than-not” assessment of the proof that equates to, essentially, a 51-49 test far less stringent than proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which applies in criminal cases.

Although Patriots owner Robert Kraft has insisted on “hard facts as opposed to circumstantial leaked evidence to drive the conclusion of this investigation,” circumstantial evidence could be sufficient to overcome any legal standard — especially a low one like “preponderance of the evidence.”
Depending on the full extent of the evidence obtained during the ongoing investigation, that could be bad news for the Patriots.

 

[royals1922]

I don't know what numbers you're looking at but if we have to go to numbers I like Pro Reference advanced passer rating index. 100 is average for the league for that particular year. So 110 is 10% above average, 85% is 15% below etc.

Anyway here's a comparison....not much difference ...Brady decline 3 years running until this season (Gronk healthy) and prior to this season, decline in 5 of the last 7 years. Manning improved in his first two Denver seasons. Maybe the deflated balls don't work, hence the big 2nd half against Colts.

BRADY                                                          MANNING

YEAR    AGE    RATING    % CHANGE        YEAR    AGE    RATING    % CHANGE
2003*+    26    107                               2003*+    27    124
2004*+    27    115    7.0%                   2004*+    28    151    17.9%
2005*+    28    114    -0.9%                 2005*+    29    129    -17.1%
2006*    29    109    -4.6%                      2006*    30    126    -2.4%
2007*    30    148    26.4%                     2007*    31    122    -3.3%
2008*+    32    116    -27.6%                2008*+    32    114    -7.0%
2009*+    33    130    10.8%                2009*+    33    120    5.0%
2010*    34    127    -2.4%                  2010*    34    109    -10.1%
2012*+    35    116    -9.5%                2012*+    36    125    12.8%
2013*+    36    101    -14.9%              2013*+    37    137    8.8%
2014*    37    113    10.6%        2014*    38    118    -16.1%

Look at interceptions and td numbers

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Kurt Warner says he now wonders if Pats gained unfair edge in Super Bowl XXXVI
Posted by Curtis Crabtree on January 27, 2015, 9:03 PM EST

Getty Images
The Patriots 20-17 victory over the St. Louis Rams in Super Bowl XXXVI was the first of three titles for Tom Brady and Bill Belichick in New England.

Adam Vinatieri’s 48-yard game-winning field goal denied Kurt Warner and the Rams a second Super Bowl title in three seasons.

On the heels of Deflategate and Spygate, Warner said Tuesday that he now has at least a little shred of doubt as to whether the Patriots win to cap the 2001-02 season was all on the up-and up.

In an interview with Dave Mahler of Sports Radio 950 KJR at Super Bowl XLIX Media Day on Tuesday, Warner said he now has to wonder whether the Patriots may have used an unfair edge to their advantage to earn that first Super Bowl.

“I don’t want to believe that there was anything outside of his team beat our team,” Warner said in regards to his reaction to Deflategate. “That’s what I want to believe. Yeah, there’s a sliver of a doubt because I think, as a human, you can’t help it. To know that if you were a part of that process at that time, was there any advantage they gained in any game, not just our Super Bowl game, but maybe a game before that to get to the Super Bowl? I mean, all those things enter your mind.

“It’s not because I’m bitter. It’s not because I say they cheated, because I have no idea, but it adds a sliver of doubt that I think is unfair to everybody. It’s unfair to them and their legacy. It’s unfair to me and my legacy because I don’t want to have to wonder, well did they beat me fair and square or was there something extra? And that’s the unfortunate part that I don’t think you’ll ever get over because you know something was done outside the rules. I don’t know how it helped them. I don’t know if it gave them an advantage on one play – that turned into an interception or a touchdown – or it gave them no advantage. I don’t know.

“I don’t want to talk about it. I want to know that I got beat fair and square. That’s the spirit of fair competition. That’s what I believe every time I step between the lines is that I’ve got to beat that guy across from me. And if I’m better, I will do that. If I’m not, I won’t. But now when you add other things to the mix, now all it does is give you a little bit of a doubt. That’s what I’m saying. It’s unfair I don’t look at it that way because I try to fight against it because we’re never going to know, but it’s unfortunate that I even have to consider it.”

Give me a farking break Kurt.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Look at interceptions and td numbers

Not enough on their own

 

[_shifty_]

Also, Bill is not a physicist. His explanation of ball deflation is not backed by an expert or science.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ooler-place/2KfFPHn9dARXXCwMgBMSkO/story.html

"Belichick got it exactly right,” said Richard P. Binzel, professor of planetary science at MIT, referring to the Patriots’ coach, Bill Belichick."

I've read at least 2 or 3 other college professors who have confirmed Bill's explanation, I really cbf tracking them down. ESPN also wrote them off saying, 'science can be used to prove both creation and evolution'

But sure, keep talking your s**t.

 

[royals1922]

Not enough on their own

Raw data not just the ratings. Deflating the ball has the supposed advantage of making the ball cleaner and easier to throw. This will be reflected in actual results such as tds, interceptions and fumbles.

 

[royals1922]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ooler-place/2KfFPHn9dARXXCwMgBMSkO/story.html

"Belichick got it exactly right,” said Richard P. Binzel, professor of planetary science at MIT, referring to the Patriots’ coach, Bill Belichick."

I've read at least 2 or 3 other college professors who have confirmed Bill's explanation, I really cbf tracking them down. ESPN also wrote them off saying, 'science can be used to prove both creation and evolution'

But sure, keep talking your s**t.

Where is M I T

 

[Gmod23]

Ok. Let's use your science angle:
Pressure is relative to Kelvin (temperature measurement). I get 285/300 ratio cold to hot. So, just about 5%. For a ball with pressure 12.5, that could mean a loss of 0.7 psi maximum.
There are balls that have lost over 2 PSI. Try another angle, this one is damning!!!!

 

[royals1922]

Ok. Let's use your science angle:
Pressure is relative to Kelvin (temperature measurement). I get 285/300 ratio cold to hot. So, just about 5%. For a ball with pressure 12.5, that could mean a loss of 0.7 psi maximum.
There are balls that have lost over 2 PSI. Try another angle, this one is damning!!!!

Professor Belichick says otherwise

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Kurt's lying. He says now that he wonders if the Patties got an unfair advantage in sb36. Whereas in actual fact he, like me and his teammates, thought there was something suspicious halfway through the third. It's just now, he can speak without sounding bitter.

 

[Woodson]

Give me a farking break Kurt.

I only liked it because it shows how 'disappointing' this whole series of cheating allegations of the Pats is making growing to a new level that past success is dared to be questioned. Looks shameless bad for Goodell who is making a ongoing habit of getting photographed with the Pats owner Robert Kraft.

Go figure..

Best of mates!! (no ties either!!)

 

[royals1922]

It is easier for the NFL to say there was nothing wrong because if they find something was wrong more than Warner will go back and reassess results.

 

[royals1922]

I only liked it because it shows how 'disappointing' this whole series of cheating allegations of the Pats is making growing to a new level that past success is dared to be questioned. Looks shameless bad for Goodell who is making a ongoing habit of getting photographed with the Pats owner Robert Kraft.

Go figure..

Best of mates!!

Im not sure how many would have been taken this year

 

[imadodgyumpire]

It's why I use Schick.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Hopefully Richard Sherman can tell us on monday how deflated they are.

 

[Woodson]

Im not sure how many would have been taken this year

They seem to be photographed a damn lot… and SMILING!! Jovial moods.. also find it quite ironic that Carson Palmer gets an accidental hit below the knee in a play-off game (suffers a knee injury) but no reaction from Goodell regards to making a rule change UNTIL Pats Tom Brady goes down in Week 1 of 2008 season.. suffers a similar knee injury… RULE ACTIVATED!! hmmmmm……

 

[royals1922]

They seem to be photographed a damn lot… and SMILING!! Jovial moods.. also find it quite ironic that Carson Palmer gets an accidental hit below the knee in a play-off game (suffers a knee injury) but no reaction from Goodell regards to making a rule change UNTIL Pats Tom Brady goes down in Week 1 of 2008 season.. suffers a similar knee injury… RULE ACTIVATED!! hmmmmm……

The first was an accident of football, the second a tragedy

 

[Woodson]

Hopefully Richard Sherman can tell us on monday how deflated they are.

Sherman is all over the 'Kraft - Goodell connection' … connecting the DOTS..

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/201...d-due-roger-goodell-robert-kraft-relationship

Kraft is kissing arse!! Watch the vid.. even the much maligned Skip Bayliss wants/ wanted GOODELL OUT!!