Non essendon supporters what if this was your club?

And the funny thing......no one knows if your are being honest or trolling, such is the level of mistrust.

Footy fans have lost faith in, and sympathy for, essendon and its supporters. You will trouble earning it back.
Maybe not.


But I suspect you'd be still trolling your little heart out.
 
Mar 23, 2010
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The vitriolic glee with which opposition supporters celebrated (why?) each new development was sickening. You claim to care only for the game but the amount of schadenfreude on display from all made it impossible for any to be treated with "respect" by Essendon fans.

You want respect? Show it first.

I don't care how you treat me. But how about respecting your club. And the club is not James, or little or bomber, or jobe. It's 100+ years of magnificent history that is being pissed away on the belief that James and co did nothing wrong. Your 2013 agm was an abysmal joke for the lack of questions asked. I've seen nothing to suggest 2014 will be anything different.

I've been shouting this since April 2013 and will continue........WAKE UP AND SAVE YOUR CLUB.
 
I don't care how you treat me. But how about respecting your club. And the club is not James, or little or bomber, or jobe. It's 100+ years of magnificent history that is being pissed away on the belief that James and co did nothing wrong. Your 2013 agm was an abysmal joke for the lack of questions asked. I've seen nothing to suggest 2014 will be anything different.

I've been shouting this since April 2013 and will continue........WAKE UP AND SAVE YOUR CLUB.
From the very second this story broke, without any actual evidence or proof, people were screaming drug cheat and the like at us. Amazingly enough, we went of the defensive. If you say you wouldn't have done the same thing, you're a liar.
 

mick

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Yes, we did.

Elliott and the three other directors implicated in the salary cap scandal were all tossed out at the end of year election,.....

Elliot would have been tossed out anyway even if he hadn't been caught being such a cheat, at least according to BF's own contemporary polling on the Carlton board. (Not a huge sample mind you)

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/should-elliott-resign-be-sacked.33420/

As an aside, Carlton fans waged a mighty defense of Pratt despite the fact he is Australia's biggest corporate criminal. I think it's a bit rude for Carlton fans to be claiming some sort of moral ascendancy over bomber supporters.

Essendon supporters are no different than the rest of us. None of us would like to believe our clubs are cheats, and we would all cling on to whatever hope there is to get us out of the mire. Personally, I've defended Jeff Kennett, and I can't stand the man or his policies. I didn't think that Brian Lake really did anything "really" wrong to Petrie, it just goes to show we all have our own filters. I'd like to say that Hawthorn fans would react differently to than the Hirdites, but I know deep in my heart, it's bullshit we all love our clubs and make excuses in our own minds that don't stand up to examination.

To claim that one club's supporter base is more gullible than another is just fanciful, half the time we don't even pick which clubs we support, it comes from parents, the town we grew up in, which player visited your school or which team was so unbelievably *en awesome in the 70's and 80's that you'd be a fool not to follow them.
 
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What astounded me was the claims that you'd all turn on your club and legends of the club because Damian Barrett and Caroline Wilson said something.

Yeah, this whole saga has been because the pesky Damo and Caro write speculative, nasty stuff about the Bombers :rolleyes: The cult of Essendon has a reason to discredit everyone who is "against them"

ASADA (incompetent, political beat-up, Andruska uselees, McDevitt no idea)
Baker and McKenzie (anti-Essendon, in with the evil Fairfax)
Demetriou (corrupt)
Ziggy report (at the behest of the AFL, embellished)
Judge Middleton (I honestly didn't think Essendon fans would stoop low enough to question him but, sure enough after he dismissed their ridiculous case in the contemptuous way it deserved, there were many Bombers fans having a go at him. That alone should set alarm bells off).

Could go on and on really. No opposition fans would expect Essendon fans to turn on the legends of their club because of Damo and Caro: hell, nearly every club has been the target of them at some point or another. But once you start ignoring award-winning journalists, a government department, the authour of a report commissioned by your own club and a respected judge on the premise that you are "standing by" an ex-footballer who has a hell of a lot to lose by admitting he was a big part in this mess you really need to take a step back and realise you are embarrassing yourselves and your club.
 
Mar 23, 2010
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Maybe not.


But I suspect you'd be still trolling your little heart out.

Only cos I have lost faith in you to help your club. I have argued all along that by the time enough evidence was available to satisfy your demands for proof, it would be too late. Decisions were necessary very early in this process that you've refused to make. And shortly the club will suffer the consequences.
 
Could go on and on really. No opposition fans would expect Essendon fans to turn on the legends of their club because of Damo and Caro: hell, nearly every club has been the target of them at some point or another. But once you start ignoring award-winning journalists, a government department, the authour of a report commissioned by your own club and a respected judge on the premise that you are "standing by" an ex-footballer who has a hell of a lot to lose by admitting he was a big part in this mess you really need to take a step back and realise you are embarrassing yourselves and your club.
It's one step after another after another. When you've become that defensive/used to hearing rubbish, it's hard to hear things that aren't.
 
Mar 23, 2010
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Section 24 subsection B3 JUST GOT REPEALED.
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From the very second this story broke, without any actual evidence or proof, people were screaming drug cheat and the like at us. Amazingly enough, we went of the defensive. If you say you wouldn't have done the same thing, you're a liar.

So at no point in this saga has any information had you asking questions of the honesty of James and co ?

As far as me being a liar, go to the pies board and locate my response in the illicit drugs thread from January 2013. It answers that question.
 
There's prob already a thread on this but could see it.....

Say if this was your club, and your club icons involved in this saga would you drink the kool-aid and blindly believe that what ever they said was gospel?

Would you demand the club answer the charge?

I would want the coach, support staff and board sacked straight away.
 

This Is Anfield

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From the very second this story broke, without any actual evidence or proof, people were screaming drug cheat and the like at us. Amazingly enough, we went of the defensive. If you say you wouldn't have done the same thing, you're a liar.
Disagree there, when the story broke the general perception of most of the people I know was, WTF, surely not and let's wait and see, some Essendon people fell on their swords and James Hird stated that he took full responsibility, the mood then was one of hope they are found not guilty but if they are, throw the book.
Then a few things changed the landscape, Hird refused to stand aside, which most thought odd, then Robbo started this Demetriou tipped off the Bombers bullshit, like it was the AFL's fault because they tried to help Essendon and limit the damage to the AFL and then, for me, the tipping point, the assault by Team Hird trying to paint James as the "scapegoat", the innocent Golden Child unfairly targeted by nasty Demetriou, unfairly send to France to study, unfairly paid a million bucks to ease his suspension and unfairly recontracted for another two years, the Cult Of Hird was born and any lingering goodwill or empathy with Essendon and their supporters, died!
 
Jeff, you're not going to find a single Carlton supporter that will say "We didnt cheat the cap". We did, we know we did. Blind Freddy knows we did.
There's some on here that still deny it or don't accept the club should have been punished.

There's plenty too that readily rewrite history to diminish the extent of the cheating.

The only point we raise is that Ron Evans was one of the most corrupt son of a bitch going around who brushed asided Essendon's expenditure to jameshird.com and matthewlloyd.com in 2000 whilst giving a severe whack to us when we were on our knees having collected our first wooden spoon ever and gave us no option, absolutely no ******* option to rebuild.
Oh look . . . there's one now.

You couldn't rebuild because of your own mismanagement - an old list with players being paid well over what anyone else would pay. Remember, contracts for 2003 had you already 25% over the cap before the AFL sanctioned you.

You cheat and you think you should have been given a concession because you were s**t?!? Unbelievable.

FMD, you still got a priority pick in 2003 when you were supposedly banned from the first two rounds of the draft. Not to mention in 2002 you traded your 2nd round pick for a washed up ruckman before the AFL could sanction you. So your penalties were in fact diluted the moment they came into effect.

And you have the nerve to blame Ron Evans for Carlton not being able to rebuild?

As for the .com episode at Essendon. Was that any different to the shame VISY deal Carlton signed to get Judd? I still can't believe the AFL gave salary cheats a green light on that.

We werent even allowed to trade back into the draft.
More revisionist claptrap.

There was no such restriction.

Your restriction on trading was that your list was either old or grossly overpaid (i.e. you couldn't offload them).

Ask SOS how he feels about Carlton supporters and their reaction to the penalties. He still hasn't forgiven the treatment he got for having the nerve to break ranks and tell the truth.
 

invinciBlues

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As an aside, Carlton fans waged a mighty defense of Pratt despite the fact he is Australia's biggest corporate criminal. I think it's a bit rude for Carlton fans to be claiming some sort of moral ascendancy over bomber supporters.

Really? The biggest corporate criminal in Australia? Seriously?

Shall I ramble off some names off the top of my head like Skase or Bond or do I just assume that you dont know what you're talking about given that Visy was only one party in that pricing fixing saga?

* me swinging, do you have know about Ron Evan's company Spotless's contracts when you say Pratt was the worst?
 

invinciBlues

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As for the .com episode at Essendon. Was that any different to the shame VISY deal Carlton signed to get Judd? I still can't believe the AFL gave salary cheats a green light on that.

Jeff, there are two major cardboard companies in Australia. One is Visy, who you know about due to Judd's ambassadorial role.

Name the other one :)
 

Ian McDonald

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I would want anyone implicated in this type of program out the door. That would include any players who went along with it, let's face it, they would have to be imbeciles not to know something dodgy was going on (even Kyle Reimers knew something was up!)

I have seen first hand how people are blindly loyal to the champions of their club though. At West Coast games I was regularly asked while standing in ques (food, drinks, toilet etc) if I was "for Ben" by other West Coast supporters during the Cousins saga. When I stated that I was "for West Coast" not one of its players that had done the wrong thing by himself and the club, the conversation usually ended abruptly.

Even to this day you come across people who think Cousins was somehow hard done by by the AFL and the club.

The club is always bigger than the individual, just don't tell James Hird that.
Totally agree, at first I was one of the Benny ones, but at the end of the day it isn't one individual, it is a club. Ben only buggered himself( which is pretty sad), thus is a whole bunch of young guys. Everyone has to go from coaching to administration. If it was Eagles they wouldn't gave my membership anymore.
 

Ian McDonald

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Aug 8, 2012
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It's an impossible question to ask. When your club is attacked as Essendon has been, you forget sense and instantly defend. Your football club is different to anything else, you defend it with everything.
Don't agree with that one, not when health of young guys is at risk.
 

Ian McDonald

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Aug 8, 2012
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This is not about the media. Never has been. Because of your total contempt for all other footy fans, we are all seen as gullible fools unable to draw own own conclusions. Sure there's plenty out there who are stupid enough to accept everything uttered, but plenty more do not. These later people do however pick the pieces of information that are feasible and file them away, awaiting further references.......and they just kept coming.

The sooner you treat opposition fans with a ounce of respect and acknowledge those of us with a love of footy that is stronger than the love of club, you might be surprised what you find.
Nailed it mate.
 

Barry_Badrinath

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It's easy to take the moral high ground and say you would turn on them, but in a lot of cases I don't think many people would've reacted any differently to what Essendon supporters have. Although I'm pretty confident that I would've been done with Richmond if it had've been us, at least until anyone involved with the scandal had been removed. In fact I haven't renewed my membership over the last 2 years and the Bombers scandal has been a factor in that decision.

All clubs would've had a large kool-aid drinking contingent that would've carried on the same way as the Bombers supporters. However the reaction would've varied somewhat from club to club. Essendon are a club that have been very successful over the last 30 years and Hird is a Brownlow, Norm Smith winning premiership superstar in their eyes. Down at Richmond we have had 30 years of humiliating failure. We didn't have a golden child like Hird to look up to. Our superstar Richo was a flawed, fallible champion who was regularly criticised for everything from his goal kicking, to his on-field demeanor, to our over-reliance on him. Whenever Richo would line up for a set shot I would always fear the worst, and it was heartbreaking every time he let us down. Our heroes have been letting us down for decades and we've become masters of heaping scorn and vitriol at club. I can tell you with great certainty that if Richmond had've been involved in a scandal like this, it would've been the final straw for a large number of our supporters. The s**t would've hit the fan pretty early on.

I have no doubt that any club with recent premiership success (Collingwood, Hawthorn or Geelong in particular) would've reacted in a similar way to the Bombers. The idea that their cherished premierships (or dynasty in Geelong's case) were a complete lie would be too hard to stomach and the kool-aid would be sculled by the gallon. If it had've been West Coast an "us vs them" mentality would've developed when those evil Eastern staters started throwing accusations at their perennial successful club. Success starved clubs like St Kilda, the Bulldogs and Melbourne probably would've gone a bit easier on the kool-aid and asked more questions of their club. There would've been a large number of rational supporters that asked questions and kool-aid drinkers that denied everything regardless of which club it was, but the number of each would've varied greatly based on each clubs recent history.
 
Sep 29, 2009
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Disagree there, when the story broke the general perception of most of the people I know was, WTF, surely not and let's wait and see, some Essendon people fell on their swords and James Hird stated that he took full responsibility, the mood then was one of hope they are found not guilty but if they are, throw the book.
Then a few things changed the landscape, Hird refused to stand aside, which most thought odd, then Robbo started this Demetriou tipped off the Bombers bullshit, like it was the AFL's fault because they tried to help Essendon and limit the damage to the AFL and then, for me, the tipping point, the assault by Team Hird trying to paint James as the "scapegoat", the innocent Golden Child unfairly targeted by nasty Demetriou, unfairly send to France to study, unfairly paid a million bucks to ease his suspension and unfairly recontracted for another two years, the Cult Of Hird was born and any lingering goodwill or empathy with Essendon and their supporters, died!
That is how I remember it unfolding as far as my awareness of the story and characters in it go. Until I found out otherwise, I had always admired Hird as a champion footballer and I had never heard much that was negative about him. Last 12 months have been a revelation on that.
 
Only cos I have lost faith in you to help your club. I have argued all along that by the time enough evidence was available to satisfy your demands for proof, it would be too late. Decisions were necessary very early in this process that you've refused to make. And shortly the club will suffer the consequences.

Hahaha oh Vijay, never change. :thumbsu:
 

PattoMan99

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The vitriolic glee with which opposition supporters celebrated (why?) each new development was sickening. You claim to care only for the game but the amount of schadenfreude on display from all made it impossible for any to be treated with "respect" by Essendon fans.

You want respect? Show it first.
Well if you did not royally screw up there would be no schadenfreude now would there?
 
Only cos I have lost faith in you to help your club. I have argued all along that by the time enough evidence was available to satisfy your demands for proof, it would be too late. Decisions were necessary very early in this process that you've refused to make. And shortly the club will suffer the consequences.
I can take people with strong views against Essendon, I don't mind Laphroaig or MaddAdam - I think they both know how things work fairly well, only criticism of them is I think they both do at times get a little caught up in their own views, but I think both can at least validly back their opinions.

There are some like Chameleon75 who it is difficult to detect what side they sit. Balance and respect both sides.


I respect the legal talk of the likes of Baldur Higgs Boson and Malifice etc . Some of the medical of Ancient Tiger etc, all offer some very valid and reasoned thoughts for their opinions. Even if I disagree, I respect where they come from.

I just think you have a lot of thinly veiled trolls.
 
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