WTF? Adelaide and WC are in footy states. Surely they should be compared to GWS, GC and Brisbane.
Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Thread X
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Jade
Smug lives here.
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All the more damning. They work harder despite being in football states.
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
How can you tell if you don't live there?
Jade
Smug lives here.
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Easy. I'll dig up my post on it tomorrow, Sydney are shamefully inactive in this regard.
Don't really see why Sydney, or any other club, should be marked on their efforts, and efforts seems like it could be very subjective, to grow the game in their city/state. Anything beyond growing their own club, which has the de facto effect of growing the game, seems like it would fall under the AFL, AFLNSW etc. Obviously they should do the usual good PR stuff ie training sessions at schools and what not. But maybe Jade has a convincing argument
Sniggles
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Please do. Look forward to reading it
Interesting to note the AFLPA estimating three quarters of players are on or below the $340,000 mean average wage. I wonder what the median is.
Jade
Smug lives here.
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Original post can be found here - however I've done a full copy and paste anyway.
My problem with it, and the circumstances around it are not simple.
First and foremost, believe it or not the concept of an 'expansion allowance' I actually agree with. I'm a big believer that mistakes are actually ok, as long as you learn from them. And the AFL (VFL) made mistakes when it initially tried expansion with both the Sydney move - and more obviously the introduction of Brisbane and West Coast. New clubs need to be given a 'lubricated' entry to make sure they are given the best opportunity to establish itself and become competitive from the get go.
Now, the AFL learnt that lesson, but probably made a different mistake when introducing Gold Coast and GWS. I believe the 'intent' of the concessions given to them was to see them gather a larger list of experienced players than they did. But anyway, I don't want to get too sidetracked....
So, my first real problem. It is NOT a cost of living allowance, nor has it ever been. You know that, I know that. The AFL knows that. Sydney knows that. But up until recently, nobody really said it out loud. Let's be clear, if the AFL was serious about addressing cost of living we'd have a base salary cap, with the AFL themselves paying out cost of living variations based on what city the player was living in on a five year index or some other such arrangement. The arrangement they seem to be moving to NOW is a step in the right direction, but you are still half arsing it until you apply it to all clubs.
It is a marketing allowance. Best way I can title it. A salary cap concession given to clubs in expansion markets that cannot embed themselves naturally. I feel sorry for Freo, West Coast, Adelaide and Port sometimes - if they had been less successfully in establishing themselves in their home states, they may have gotten the same leg up. Maybe they shouldn't have worked so hard.....
So considering the above, how is that Sydneys fault?
Here's how.
The allowance, regardless of what it is called, is designed to GROW the game in the market.
Sydney have had THIRTY YEARS to embed itself in Sydney. Granted, real support only came twenty years ago, but we are still talking DECADES. And what have they done?
I went to the North webpage (North FFS), and found this:
http://www.nmfc.com.au/huddle/about-the-huddle
The Huddle was established "to improve social cohesion by systematically addressing the causes of disengagement among young people, The Huddle’s programs target youths from migrant and refugee backgrounds, in North Melbourne, Flemington, Kensington, West Melbourne and the City of Wyndham."
It's won the Premiers award.
Check out the Eagles:
http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/WestCoastEagles/Community/wce14community.pdf
32 pages of activities from last year. Includes the Eagles Cup, BHP Leadership initiative, faction footy and so on. They are seriously engaged with their community - no wonder they are a bloody powerhouse in Western Australia, nay, Australia
Maybe its just not a NSW thing:
http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/community
Holy crap! The club isn't a decade old and they have how many community programs? It's almost like they are trying to grow the game or something! Bridges to Education - that's clever, I like that.
So three clubs that had to deliberately, actively engage its community.
I'm sure the Swans have been as active:
http://saff.org.au/MakeaDifference/HOWYOUCANHELP/tabid/134/Default.aspx
The Sydney Swans Foundation. Whose stated aim is "Underpinning the Sydney Swans success for the long term future".
Umm ok.
http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/club/team-swans/news
Oh look. It's one of those news filter things. And it's had three updates this year.
If the point has escaped, let me state it in plain English. The Sydney Swans have NOT actively engaged its community (hell, use the word market). As a result, despite a longer presence than ANY OTHER expansion side, it has failed to establish a strong, self supporting base on which to hang its proverbial hat.
The Sydney Swans whinge that the allowance is necessary. IF it is necessary, it is because of the actions (or more correctly the INACTION) of the Sydney Swans.
Why? WHY?
Why should the Sydney Swans receive an allowance whose goal is to grow the game, when it disadvantages those clubs that have worked their asses off in order to achieve that very end.
Clubs like North, West Coast, GWS take deliberate and specific action to not only improve the standing of the game, but also improve the community they live off.
The Sydney Swans are a lecherous germ that take and offer nothing in return. They think only of the Sydney Swans.
That is why Richard Colless was a s**t leader, and why the Sydney Swans are a s**t club not worthy of the advantages they are given.
They should hang their heads in bloody shame.
My problem with it, and the circumstances around it are not simple.
First and foremost, believe it or not the concept of an 'expansion allowance' I actually agree with. I'm a big believer that mistakes are actually ok, as long as you learn from them. And the AFL (VFL) made mistakes when it initially tried expansion with both the Sydney move - and more obviously the introduction of Brisbane and West Coast. New clubs need to be given a 'lubricated' entry to make sure they are given the best opportunity to establish itself and become competitive from the get go.
Now, the AFL learnt that lesson, but probably made a different mistake when introducing Gold Coast and GWS. I believe the 'intent' of the concessions given to them was to see them gather a larger list of experienced players than they did. But anyway, I don't want to get too sidetracked....
So, my first real problem. It is NOT a cost of living allowance, nor has it ever been. You know that, I know that. The AFL knows that. Sydney knows that. But up until recently, nobody really said it out loud. Let's be clear, if the AFL was serious about addressing cost of living we'd have a base salary cap, with the AFL themselves paying out cost of living variations based on what city the player was living in on a five year index or some other such arrangement. The arrangement they seem to be moving to NOW is a step in the right direction, but you are still half arsing it until you apply it to all clubs.
It is a marketing allowance. Best way I can title it. A salary cap concession given to clubs in expansion markets that cannot embed themselves naturally. I feel sorry for Freo, West Coast, Adelaide and Port sometimes - if they had been less successfully in establishing themselves in their home states, they may have gotten the same leg up. Maybe they shouldn't have worked so hard.....
So considering the above, how is that Sydneys fault?
Here's how.
The allowance, regardless of what it is called, is designed to GROW the game in the market.
Sydney have had THIRTY YEARS to embed itself in Sydney. Granted, real support only came twenty years ago, but we are still talking DECADES. And what have they done?
I went to the North webpage (North FFS), and found this:
http://www.nmfc.com.au/huddle/about-the-huddle
The Huddle was established "to improve social cohesion by systematically addressing the causes of disengagement among young people, The Huddle’s programs target youths from migrant and refugee backgrounds, in North Melbourne, Flemington, Kensington, West Melbourne and the City of Wyndham."
It's won the Premiers award.
Check out the Eagles:
http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/WestCoastEagles/Community/wce14community.pdf
32 pages of activities from last year. Includes the Eagles Cup, BHP Leadership initiative, faction footy and so on. They are seriously engaged with their community - no wonder they are a bloody powerhouse in Western Australia, nay, Australia
Maybe its just not a NSW thing:
http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/community
Holy crap! The club isn't a decade old and they have how many community programs? It's almost like they are trying to grow the game or something! Bridges to Education - that's clever, I like that.
So three clubs that had to deliberately, actively engage its community.
I'm sure the Swans have been as active:
http://saff.org.au/MakeaDifference/HOWYOUCANHELP/tabid/134/Default.aspx
The Sydney Swans Foundation. Whose stated aim is "Underpinning the Sydney Swans success for the long term future".
Umm ok.
http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/club/team-swans/news
Oh look. It's one of those news filter things. And it's had three updates this year.
If the point has escaped, let me state it in plain English. The Sydney Swans have NOT actively engaged its community (hell, use the word market). As a result, despite a longer presence than ANY OTHER expansion side, it has failed to establish a strong, self supporting base on which to hang its proverbial hat.
The Sydney Swans whinge that the allowance is necessary. IF it is necessary, it is because of the actions (or more correctly the INACTION) of the Sydney Swans.
Why? WHY?
Why should the Sydney Swans receive an allowance whose goal is to grow the game, when it disadvantages those clubs that have worked their asses off in order to achieve that very end.
Clubs like North, West Coast, GWS take deliberate and specific action to not only improve the standing of the game, but also improve the community they live off.
The Sydney Swans are a lecherous germ that take and offer nothing in return. They think only of the Sydney Swans.
That is why Richard Colless was a s**t leader, and why the Sydney Swans are a s**t club not worthy of the advantages they are given.
They should hang their heads in bloody shame.
- Feb 12, 2010
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I heard on the radio last night it's around the $283K mark.
Gradual decline. Nearly certain it's his last season
Correct
I never really thought about it but now that you've posted this, it's prompted recollection of the attitude the Swans had toward expansion and the bitching and moaning about how hard it always for them. I just accepted it for what it appeared to be rather than the reality that it was just a campaign for undeserved welfare and the competitive advantage.
The only thing I've ever heard from the Swans is that they need to stay competitive to keep their market interested.
I respect their team because I still think that COLA has provided them with the icing on the cake that was good enough anyway but I have to say that I'm turned off.
Jade
Smug lives here.
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I know its a bit of boy who cried wolf when it comes from me, but you look at their efforts and they really have been sub-par.
couple of thousand injections of ox blood mixed with cow liver, cooked over and open fire with wood from maple tree that nears extinction in the phillipines will sort him out and be brushed under the carpet by the AFL. Seriously but that is sad news for him. on the up side it is good news for us coz he wont be able to cut us a new one from the sideline
Not often I comment here, just usually like to browse.
However I do live in Sydney and had a lot of involvement in both junior and senior football here over 30 years.
Early in the piece I did an administration course also attended by a couple of officials from the Swans.
Many questions were asked of them relating to support and guidance of local clubs.
The response: "This is not a problem for us, you need to deal with the NSWAFL"
Needless to say, that put a lot of people offside, and I have had a poor view of the Swans interaction with footy here ever since.
Just my two bobs worth
- May 6, 2007
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Been thinking a bit recently about the players that completely change the dimension of a football side if they "break out". Similar to haw Trav Colyer changed the dimensions of our side in 2014. Who from each football club is that man?
(Adelaide) Tom Lynch - Had a solid 2014 but as that third tall forward he really changes the whole dynamic of the Crows forward line as that tweener. If he could boot 30 - 40 goals as Jack Gunston was able to do then the potency inside 50 would be exponential.
(Brisbane) Sam Mayes - Much has been said and made out about Redden, Aish, Rockliff, Zorko and the new arrivals of Beams and Christensen but the class and ball movement of Sam Mayes would be wonderful for the workmanlike Brisbane midfield.
(Carlton) Troy Menzel - This was easy. The ability is well and truly there, hope we can see the best of him.
(Collingwood) Paul Seedsman - Another easy enough one. The smooth moving ,running defender has all the traits of a high quality half back flanker. Up and running, Seedsman changes the whole dynamics of the blue collar Magpies defence.
(Fremantle) Chris Mayne - A sub 2014 after a breakout 2013. Mayne's defensive responsibilities and scoreboard capabilities make him a super rare commodity in todays game. Capable of kicking a bag and laying a dozen tackles, Mayne holds the key for the aging Dockers forwardline.
(Giants) Adam Tomlinson - The former high draft pick is often lost in amongst the other higher profile high draft picks. He has busily got himself to 45 games and found some consistency to show he is a capable AFL player. Watch this space IMHO.
(Geelong) Jordan Murdoch - The speedy wingman/half forward has been somewhat a super sub for the Cats. At 190cm, he can take a mark, kick it a mile and run like the wind. Time for him to stand up in the aging Cats side and take on some more responsibility.
(Hawthorn) - Any ideas? Maybe Angus Litherland as a third tall defender?
(Melbourne) Jesse Hogan - Again, another easy one. The man child who could really turn around this football clubs fortunes and hope. No pressure
(Kangaroos) Ben Brown - Sideshow bob kicked 18 goals from only 11 games in 2014. If he can produce those numbers across 22 games then he adds a whole new addition to the Roos forward line.
(Port Power) Matthew Broadbent - Another lesser name amongst the higher profile Power midfielders, Broadbent has shown he can play a powerful running defender.wingman to a high level. Kicks well and takes the game on.
(Richmond) David Astbury - The young KPD started off 2014 well until injury struck. Structurally wise he is as important as anyone. Reads the play well and relases a guy like Grimes to play a lesser/smaller role.
(Sydney) Lewis Jetta - May surprise some with this selection but he changes the whole dynamics to the Swans line up when he is up and running.
(Suns) Sam Day - The incosistent but highly talented Sam Day can play at either end but is more at home in defence. If he plays high level football then it will go a long way to go for a Suns win.
(Saints) Jack Billings - If the Saints are to move back up the ladder this young man will be at the forefront of it. Smart, crafty forward/midfielder, he uses the ball well and could end up an AA by his careers end.
(Eagles) Andrew Gaff - The middle man who links the defence with the forwards. Gaff found 2014 much tougher than 2013, but may complete a well rounded young Eagles midfield.
(Bulldogs) Michael Talia - May surpruse a few that a man outside the best 22 could change a side so much but he could well hold a structural key for the Dogs. Releasing Roughead/Morris into other roles.
What do you guys think?
(Adelaide) Tom Lynch - Had a solid 2014 but as that third tall forward he really changes the whole dynamic of the Crows forward line as that tweener. If he could boot 30 - 40 goals as Jack Gunston was able to do then the potency inside 50 would be exponential.
(Brisbane) Sam Mayes - Much has been said and made out about Redden, Aish, Rockliff, Zorko and the new arrivals of Beams and Christensen but the class and ball movement of Sam Mayes would be wonderful for the workmanlike Brisbane midfield.
(Carlton) Troy Menzel - This was easy. The ability is well and truly there, hope we can see the best of him.
(Collingwood) Paul Seedsman - Another easy enough one. The smooth moving ,running defender has all the traits of a high quality half back flanker. Up and running, Seedsman changes the whole dynamics of the blue collar Magpies defence.
(Fremantle) Chris Mayne - A sub 2014 after a breakout 2013. Mayne's defensive responsibilities and scoreboard capabilities make him a super rare commodity in todays game. Capable of kicking a bag and laying a dozen tackles, Mayne holds the key for the aging Dockers forwardline.
(Giants) Adam Tomlinson - The former high draft pick is often lost in amongst the other higher profile high draft picks. He has busily got himself to 45 games and found some consistency to show he is a capable AFL player. Watch this space IMHO.
(Geelong) Jordan Murdoch - The speedy wingman/half forward has been somewhat a super sub for the Cats. At 190cm, he can take a mark, kick it a mile and run like the wind. Time for him to stand up in the aging Cats side and take on some more responsibility.
(Hawthorn) - Any ideas? Maybe Angus Litherland as a third tall defender?
(Melbourne) Jesse Hogan - Again, another easy one. The man child who could really turn around this football clubs fortunes and hope. No pressure
(Kangaroos) Ben Brown - Sideshow bob kicked 18 goals from only 11 games in 2014. If he can produce those numbers across 22 games then he adds a whole new addition to the Roos forward line.
(Port Power) Matthew Broadbent - Another lesser name amongst the higher profile Power midfielders, Broadbent has shown he can play a powerful running defender.wingman to a high level. Kicks well and takes the game on.
(Richmond) David Astbury - The young KPD started off 2014 well until injury struck. Structurally wise he is as important as anyone. Reads the play well and relases a guy like Grimes to play a lesser/smaller role.
(Sydney) Lewis Jetta - May surprise some with this selection but he changes the whole dynamics to the Swans line up when he is up and running.
(Suns) Sam Day - The incosistent but highly talented Sam Day can play at either end but is more at home in defence. If he plays high level football then it will go a long way to go for a Suns win.
(Saints) Jack Billings - If the Saints are to move back up the ladder this young man will be at the forefront of it. Smart, crafty forward/midfielder, he uses the ball well and could end up an AA by his careers end.
(Eagles) Andrew Gaff - The middle man who links the defence with the forwards. Gaff found 2014 much tougher than 2013, but may complete a well rounded young Eagles midfield.
(Bulldogs) Michael Talia - May surpruse a few that a man outside the best 22 could change a side so much but he could well hold a structural key for the Dogs. Releasing Roughead/Morris into other roles.
What do you guys think?
I'll give you Hogan, Day (though Dixon staying fit is arguably more important), Lynch and maybe Menzel.
If you're counting Mayne as someone capable of "breaking out", then there are a raft of experienced players central to their teams' prospects. Ben Reid is the clear key to Collingwood's season, Ryder is key for Port, Geelong could use a dominant ruck and/or a foil for Hawkins, Richmond need Maric firing all season and Tippett is arguably the most important player on Sydney's list, purely due to how he structures up the forward line, releases Franklin and supports Pyke.
As far as youngsters go, the long-term success of Brisbane, Footscray and St Kilda hinges entirely on someone stepping up as a key forward. The Eagles need support for Priddis with Selwood the obvious hope but a few youngsters plausible options. At North, Brown may not even play with Petrie, Waite and Black available, while the latter when fit offers the kind of dynamic goal threat that could challenge any defence, Ziebell with a tank would move the midfield beyond workmanlike, and Joel Tippett could perhaps offer long-term key defensive support for Thompson, with Grima injury-prone, Hansen better playing loose and the rest VFL-grade.
If you're counting Mayne as someone capable of "breaking out", then there are a raft of experienced players central to their teams' prospects. Ben Reid is the clear key to Collingwood's season, Ryder is key for Port, Geelong could use a dominant ruck and/or a foil for Hawkins, Richmond need Maric firing all season and Tippett is arguably the most important player on Sydney's list, purely due to how he structures up the forward line, releases Franklin and supports Pyke.
As far as youngsters go, the long-term success of Brisbane, Footscray and St Kilda hinges entirely on someone stepping up as a key forward. The Eagles need support for Priddis with Selwood the obvious hope but a few youngsters plausible options. At North, Brown may not even play with Petrie, Waite and Black available, while the latter when fit offers the kind of dynamic goal threat that could challenge any defence, Ziebell with a tank would move the midfield beyond workmanlike, and Joel Tippett could perhaps offer long-term key defensive support for Thompson, with Grima injury-prone, Hansen better playing loose and the rest VFL-grade.
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- May 6, 2007
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Im not very well educated on the Dockers list but i thought perhaps someone like Sutcliffe, Crozier as players capable of 'breaking out'.
I was more angling at players who could/would/need to break out for there respective sides to use that trait/position as a super advantage.
Would a 32 year old Drew Petrie fill in as a ruckmen though?
And, for example, Reid even getting on the park offers far more to Collingwood than Seedsman having a ripper year off half-back.
If Waite and Black can lessen the demands on him as a forward target, Petrie can pinch hit. Goldstein has a TOG figure above 90%.
Taberner is what they need.
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I'll just leave this here from the Port board.
EnolaGay
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#notquitethebestinthebusiness
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It doesn't matter if he got his facts wrong, he's still correct.
Zach Package
Prespakis2Tsatas
Peter Matera's son Jordan has quit Brighton Grammar to focus on footy with the Sandy Dragons. Jeeze you'd want footy to work out for you now, wouldn't you?
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It's really not that hard to to get into a Uni anyway.
Zach Package
Prespakis2Tsatas
Not at all, if you've got money (which his dad would) but it's still a bold move
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