Nothing Has Changed People (maybe)

[Laphroaig]

Lot of commentary here. Mostly from the not Essendon world. Much of it a little over the top.

What happened today was the clock got turned back three months. Not that exciting really.

EFC are no more or less guilty than they were then. The cases against them, and the players, have not changed. The cases have simply not been buried on a thin legal technicality.

I note, with humility, that I predicted this result. Big deal. It aint a shock.

But what may have changed is the standing of J Albert and the Board. Judging by the EFC Facebook page the mainstream may have turned their faces away. With, I acknowledge, some quite emphatic and even nasty response from the dissenters.

The Judgement today has * all impact on who did what. It was always about how the sheriff found out. But it does seem to have had a broader impact nonetheless.

Then again, the interim report had an impact too. But it took some folk only a short while to decide that it was a vast fabrication.

 

[citizen-erased]

A lot of us looked on with interest today, not to see the investigation canned, but to see what the opinion of a legal expert was (with so many of us not having that string to our bow), and notably the next actions the club takes.

Much of a muchness, but the landscape has a different mood today.

 

[FuManchu]

Its back to where it was a few months ago as you said.

Barring any appeal, we can go back to the assumption that ASADA are confident that their case was good enough to proceed to this point. I don't think they do these things lightly.

 

[Reykjavik]

Nothing has changed substantively. All that has happened is the process, which had been stalled, gets to continue.

However, one important thing may have changed from what I'm seeing and hearing. The broad bulk of essendon supporters, not I might add well represented by die-hards on internet forums, have been given a large and powerful dose of reality that might well shake the hitherto compliant faith in their club. For many I know, who were at worst on the fence and often openly contemptuous of any suggestion of wrongdoing partly because of unshakable faith in their club, have begun to reasses after today.

For some, perhaps many, this at least has shown them the people in charge of their club may in fact have no ******* clue. And that may prove the most important thing of all.

 

[FuManchu]

Nothing has changed substantively. All that has happened is the process, which had been stalled, gets to continue.

However, one important thing may have changed from what I'm seeing and hearing. The broad bulk of essendon supporters, not I might add well represented by die-hards on internet forums, have been given a large and powerful dose of reality that might well shake the hitherto compliant faith in their club. For many I know, who were at worst on the fence and often openly contemptuous of any suggestion of wrongdoing partly because of unshakable faith in their club, have begun to reasses after today.

For some, perhaps many, this at least has shown them the people in charge of their club may in fact have no ******* clue. And that may prove the most important thing of all.

On the contrary, i believe the club had a clue and they will do whatever it takes to prevent others learning the clue.

 

[FootyGeek]

A lot has changed.

The pro Essendon media campaign has been destroyed.

The last 12 months have been all about demonising ASADA.

That is all out the door.

We have gone from a feel where the public would not accept any player bans to one where something is now expected.

Hird, Little and the board are now on a tightrope.

In terms of doping, yes, today's verdict had little direct relevance. But in terms of the game, the vibe, the PR war. This has been a PR war unlike any other. Essendon lost BIG TIME today.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Lot of commentary here. Mostly from the not Essendon world. Much of it a little over the top.

What happened today was the clock got turned back three months. Not that exciting really.

EFC are no more or less guilty than they were then. The cases against them, and the players, have not changed. The cases have simply not been buried on a thin legal technicality.

I note, with humility, that I predicted this result. Big deal. It aint a shock.

But what may have changed is the standing of J Albert and the Board. Judging by the EFC Facebook page the mainstream may have turned their faces away. With, I acknowledge, some quite emphatic and even nasty response from the dissenters.

The Judgement today has **** all impact on who did what. It was always about how the sheriff found out. But it does seem to have had a broader impact nonetheless.

Then again, the interim report had an impact too. But it took some folk only a short while to decide that it was a vast fabrication.

Essendon membership packages may be changing

 

[evo]

haha. The 'people' are lucky to have you.

 

[sauce_head]

The above is generally correct. But what has changed is Essendon's obvious PR offensive is over the short circuit, the attempt to fatigue the media, the false focus on players rather than Hird, it's all over. There is now no Government or AFL led escape. There is no sympathy from the public. There is no front this as ASADA bad guys. Essendon have to deal with ASADA now and are the bad guys. It's gotten harder for them to escape and they have to deal with the substantive argent now, which is a s**t fight for them. Unless they double down, but then the drag up the above. Bad luck Paul and Jimmy. Bad luck indeed.

 

[Keys]

Players at essendon either did or didn't take PEDs. A secondary question is who at essendon initiated, authorized or knew of the substances injected into those players.

It's a simple question with a convoluted answer that we are no closer to knowing the answer to

 

[Underdog]

A lot of us looked on with interest today, not to see the investigation canned, but to see what the opinion of a legal expert was (with so many of us not having that string to our bow), and notably the next actions the club takes.

Much of a muchness, but the landscape has a different mood today.

This.

It's the first real definitive insight we've had in comparing the media spin and allegiances and how it's stacks up with reality.

We know this has no bearing on the core issues, but it has cleared a lot of the doubt that Essendon have been casting on proceedings and changed the mood (as mentioned above).

This, again, has no impact on the proceedings but It's clear that the media and PR campaign has been infuriating to many.

 

[citizen-erased]

This.

It's the first real definitive insight we've had in comparing the media spin and allegiances and how it's stacks up with reality.

We know this has no bearing on the core issues, but it has cleared a lot of the doubt that Essendon have been casting on proceedings and changed the mood (as mentioned above).

This, again, has no impact on the proceedings but It's clear that the media and PR campaign has been infuriating to many.

I have a hope the AFL, when the dust settles and they get a chance to breathe, will look into the governance of the media that covers it.

 

[vjknight]

actually OP i do recall you suggesting the result, but certainly not the EMPHATIC result it proved to be. was there one piece of information that the hirdites could claim as a victory ? i am yet to see one.

if the court of public opinion can finally be awoken, and the print media ease up on their robbo/le grand/connolly type worship of hird & co, and channel 7 cease on the fluff piece about everything watson, then finally we'll see movement to have guilty removed.

til then i dont expect the course to change til the next stage of the process.

 

[Linda Lovelace]

It doesn't change anything externally, it potentially changes a lot internally at Essendon.

If they are confident they can beat the charges on merit, then why not just do it?

The hilarious thing is that they can't get rid of Little, even though a lot of Essendon supporters want to, because they need his money.

What I am saying, is that if you were an Essendon supporter, you would have been happy to try and get the whole thing shut down. But you would also start to question whether an appeal is just an expensive waste of time that merely prolongs things even more.

 

[vjknight]

It doesn't change anything externally, it potentially changes a lot internally at Essendon.

If they are confident they can beat the charges on merit, then why not just do it?

The hilarious thing is that they can't get rid of Little, even though a lot of Essendon supporters want to, because they need his money.

i doubt he'll be providing one cent.

 

[BlueWorld]

I think lots will change. The players will soon be heading to ASADA to try to get the best deal they can. Some will ask to leave. Massive PR shift. Running out of people to blame and divert attention. Slowly but surely the club will fall apart.

 

[Linda Lovelace]

i doubt he'll be providing one cent.

I disagree. He has tied himself to this until the bitter end. He has already splashed out some of his own cash on Hird and Bomber. Of course they will milk the supporters too, which is what you're getting at it.

 

[Rhayader]

The vibe (cough) I got from the Essendon argument was that they would never have said all the things they said to ASADA if the AFL coercive powers didn't require them too. The decision today clearly dismissed that.

But that does makes me wonder about what they actually did say in the interviews, and how much of ASADA's evidence is self-incrimination by the players/club.

The OP is right though. We are just where we were a few months ago. But I can't help feeling ASADA's position appears stronger today - at least to an outsider - than it did yesterday. Time will tell, but I'm keen to get some idea about what happened at the club in 2011/12 - ie was it conspiracy or utensil-up.

 

[Underdog]

Rich guys don't generally just hand out millions of dollars to AFL clubs.

 

[Underdog]

The OP is right though. We are just where we were a few months ago. But I can't help feeling ASADA's position appears stronger today - at least to an outsider - than it did yesterday. Time will tell, but I'm keen to get some idea about what happened at the club in 2011/12 - ie was it conspiracy or utensil-up.

I think it takes away the perception of ASADA's incompetence that Essendon and it's reach has been spreading.

The judge basically said that ASADA's conduct was flawless.

So does the perception regarding the validity of their evidence change positively within the community? I'd say yes.

 

[Laphroaig]

actually OP i do recall you suggesting the result, but certainly not the EMPHATIC result it proved to be. was there one piece of information that the hirdites could claim as a victory ? i am yet to see one.

if the court of public opinion can finally be awoken, and the print media ease up on their robbo/le grand/connolly type worship of hird & co, and channel 7 cease on the fluff piece about everything watson, then finally we'll see movement to have guilty removed.

til then i dont expect the course to change til the next stage of the process.

Yep. I didn't see the vehemence of the ruling.

Rest assured that within 7 days a new paradigm of manufactured grievance will saturate our consciousness. Or Hird will be sacked (either explicitly or because he announces that he "wants to spend more time with his family" or similar bullshit.

I lean to the latter, because it is sound strategy.

 

[PattoMan99]

Except Essendon members to pay another million in legal fees. LOL

 

[sauce_head]

I think it takes away the perception of ASADA's incompetence that Essendon and it's reach has been spreading.

The judge basically said that ASADA's conduct was flawless.

So does the perception regarding the validity of their evidence change positively within the community? I'd say yes.

Exactly. Wonder if the masses will realise that or not.

 

[Moral Decay]

Lot of commentary here. Mostly from the not Essendon world. Much of it a little over the top.

What happened today was the clock got turned back three months. Not that exciting really.

EFC are no more or less guilty than they were then. The cases against them, and the players, have not changed. The cases have simply not been buried on a thin legal technicality.

I note, with humility, that I predicted this result. Big deal. It aint a shock.

But what may have changed is the standing of J Albert and the Board. Judging by the EFC Facebook page the mainstream may have turned their faces away. With, I acknowledge, some quite emphatic and even nasty response from the dissenters.

The Judgement today has **** all impact on who did what. It was always about how the sheriff found out. But it does seem to have had a broader impact nonetheless.

Then again, the interim report had an impact too. But it took some folk only a short while to decide that it was a vast fabrication.

What Essendon supporters will do or think can't be predicted, but from the Justice Middleton's comment's

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/fe...s-and-james-hird/story-fnelctok-1227063198079

“Hird and the 34 players voluntarily and directly gave to the AFL the answers to questions and the information without complaint,” he said.
“Characterisation of the events set out by Essendon and Mr Hird is contrary to what in fact occurred.”

The idea of coercion of Hird and players is bollocks, Hird and Essendon FC are liars. So says Justice Middleton, most non Essendon fans thought so, and I'd be surprised if the opinion of a Supreme Court Justice would sway the opinions of the Essendon supporters on HTB. His comments should give pause and consideration to anything James or a representative of EFC have said or will say about how they have been treated and what they have done.

 

[threesixpio]

Lot of commentary here. Mostly from the not Essendon world. Much of it a little over the top.

What happened today was the clock got turned back three months. Not that exciting really.

EFC are no more or less guilty than they were then. The cases against them, and the players, have not changed. The cases have simply not been buried on a thin legal technicality.

I note, with humility, that I predicted this result. Big deal. It aint a shock.

But what may have changed is the standing of J Albert and the Board. Judging by the EFC Facebook page the mainstream may have turned their faces away. With, I acknowledge, some quite emphatic and even nasty response from the dissenters.

The Judgement today has **** all impact on who did what. It was always about how the sheriff found out. But it does seem to have had a broader impact nonetheless.

Then again, the interim report had an impact too. But it took some folk only a short while to decide that it was a vast fabrication.

I think it has changed things. Essendon likely thought 3 months ago that they were screwed and that their only hope was to win this case in order to bring down the process leading to the SCNs. I know you're making a distinction, essentially, between substantive law and process, but let's put ourselves in the shoes of Essendon 3 months ago. Exactly why do you chose not to respond to the SCNs and instead try to bring down the process leading to the SCNs?

Now, ask yourself why did Paddy jump ship TODAY?

PS: You didn't predict the outcome. You said ASADA would get a whack but the evidence would stand. They got no such whack. I said a few months ago the case was rubbish and the Bombers would likely pay costs....oops where's my humility....?