NRL "Off the ball"

[storm fan]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

lol. can you get any further off the topic?

I played full forward.

When I played, we worked on speed in defense and used a high number of changes during a match to keep that up. We also worked on changing momentum during a game at vital points in a match or when we were behind. Other then that we kept it unstructured. Tigernova would of enjoyed it.

Interesting to note that you did address each point in the post of which you quoted.

 

[.Shotties.]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

lol. can you get any further off the topic?

I don't think it's off-topic. We're discussing basis for comparison between the sports, you've posted that you were immersed in Australian Football till the age of twenty five, but the best statements you can muster aren't any better thancomments that are almost word for word like those that come from the muppets who come across here from LU.

If I stood here and said I knew nothing but League from birth till twenty five but all I could say about it was "It was really easy and all you do is run in a straight line, get tackled five times then kick. It isn't really athletic so a lot of the players are fat" I can't help but think there'd be significant doubt.

As for the rest... I can only imagine your side would have been on the end of some horrendous scorelines if your only set of tactics were attempting to change momentum and keeping "unstructured".

 

[storm fan]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

I don't think it's off-topic. We're discussing basis for comparison between the sports, you've posted that you were immersed in Australian Football till the age of twenty five, but the best statements you can muster aren't any better thancomments that are almost word for word like those that come from the muppets who come across here from LU.

If I stood here and said I knew nothing but League from birth till twenty five but all I could say about it was "It was really easy and all you do is run in a straight line, get tackled five times then kick. It isn't really athletic so a lot of the players are fat" I can't help but think there'd be significant doubt.

As for the rest... I can only imagine your side would have been on the end of some horrendous scorelines if your only set of tactics were attempting to change momentum and keeping "unstructured".

It's not my thread and I don't support silly comparisons between sports, I don't have time to sit on a forum site and write up a thesis about the comparison of the two sports so I kept it simple and based on my experiences and views of the two games. Take a step back and have a look at the game, it does look like those comparisons and if you don't like it's not my concern, they were half cocked comparisons typed out quickly.

I note that you still haven't responded to everything I have posted towards you.

We played for fun and most of the time had close matches. We had our fair share of smashings against us but it didn't matter because we played for the game, not to win or lose.

I shouldn't be surprised that yet another negative Rugby League thread has suddenly appeared in the Rugby League section few days out from big and positive Rugby League news.

 

[Covertackle]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

A few years ago, Carltons Greek God Anthony Koutoufidis was portrayed as the architypal player of the future - the perfect athletic specimen and all that.

Thankfully, we've still seen a place for the odd short and slow(er) guy who can actually play the game (Kouta took a few years to really settle and improve his kicking).

Generally, because of the variety of skills and attributes - we've seen guys play who may not be so good at marking (above their head - might become defenders trying to punch/spoil), or guys who weren't the best kick (might handball at every chance, or just be a 'run with' player).

As a North fan, our former skipper Adam Simpson was a frustration - a left foot kick but really not that flash - but, a great competitor and a 306 game career.

Alas - recruiting sometimes seemed to get focussed on 'trends' - and searching for great athletes was one. But, a benefit of the introduction of GWS and GCFC was that clubs had to get a little more 'inventive'.

And that's where 'mature age recruits' came into vogue, James Podsiadly and Michael Barlow at the vanguard - and Orren Stephenson as a 29 yr old ruckman coming to Geelong this year follows in their steps.

We've seen the Swans in particular getting good at 'code conversions' - a few of the guys like Kieran Jack and Lewis Roberts-Thomson converted at junior level - but, with Canadian Mike Pyke - it's all as a mature age player.

Top grade NRL players - as seen with K.Hunt and Izzie -

the first impediment is carrying about 10kgs too much for their height (if not more). It's a lot to carry especially as the game wears on.

:diamond:General fitness - the endurance is different in the two games, and the NRL running loads just really aren't there - also the 'unrewarded' running, or running 80 metres just to get in position to maybe get the ball.

:spade:the skills - ideally, top grade athletes are generally pretty well co-ordinated and the mechanics of any skill should be pretty easily transfered. That's not the issue - it's execution under pressure and when fatigued. That's where repitition to the point of becoming 'instinctive' is required.

:club:game awareness - and this is much harder in a 360 game like Aust Football. 'reading the play' is a term used very often. However, because the game is less rigidly structured, there are some players who really are just 'naturals' - who just seem born for the game. Others, need to rationalise just about every thing they do in a game.

great post.

 

[.Shotties.]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

I don't have time to sit on a forum site and write up a thesis about the comparison of the two sports so I kept it simple and based on my experiences and views of the two games.

You don't have to, I was just expecting someone of 25 years experience to be able to do more than just repeat word for word the standard trolling lines about the game.

PS: Don't have time? You have a higher thread posting rate than me, post per day rate and you were posting at 01:45.

Take a step back and have a look at the game, it does look like those comparisons and if you don't like it's not my concern, they were half cocked comparisons typed out quickly.

I'm happy to. I'm aware the game looks scrappy when the ball is in contest, but I know why and can explain it. I can explain what's happening in the forward line 40 metres before the ball gets there and why players in there are shifting positions depending on what's happening up the field. I can explain why certain teams allow their small backmen to run off their player to stand in 20 metres of clear space.

Discussing something like that would give you more weight and take no more time than saying "League tuffer and afl fumbles" like you did.

We played for fun and most of the time had close matches. We had our fair share of smashings against us but it didn't matter because we played for the game, not to win or lose.

Yeah, okay. I've watched u/12 rep teams with more up their sleeves than "change momentum" and "keep it unstructured"

 

[Munro_Mick]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

I didn't know what Rugby League was for the first 25 years of my life because I brought up in AFL heartland and it was against a unwritten law to talk about other the Rugby football codes.

Now I know that Rugby League is the best sport in the world and I enjoy it over any other sport. That is not to say that I don't enjoy Rugby Union or Australia Football because I do but if ever I have to choose one sport over another, the same sport wins everytime. I now honestly enjoy a 60-0 thrashing in Rugby League over a 1 point blockbuster Australian Football match. The unstructured nature of Australian Football makes it hard to watch and the fact that it is getting softer and softer since about 1995 has pushed me further and further away from the sport.

I have played both games and Rugby League is the tougher of the two sports. You only have to be a athlete and be able to kick fairly well to play Australian Football but Rugby League you need strength, endurance and the ability to play at 100% all the time including when you are hurting or injured. The limited interchange rule also makes impossible to get a free ride and the strength of the game means you can't really hide in defense and need to make more of a tackle then in Australian Football where grabbing and pulling to the ground is just required. I remember in one of my first games playing Rugby League, after years of playing AFL, I was tackled in the opening minutes and took a while to get up. After I got up, I wished I stayed down because the next time I got hit was from a shoulder charge which felt like a lighting bolt going through me.

The two games are so dissimilar that comparing them is a high form of stupidity and ultimately comes down to personal reference. One personal may say that one sport is too structured and another might say that the other contains too much fumbling . I just know that I prefer to watch a "structured" match over a "fumbling" match which resembles sea gulls fighting over a chip. If the original poster of this thread thinks League is too structured, I hope for his sake that he does not like American Football, Soccer, hockey or even Rugby Union either - that would bore him to death.

Gross generalisations and over simplifications are the enemy of educated discussion.

That said, I'll engage with you......

I now honestly enjoy a 60-0 thrashing in Rugby League over a 1 point blockbuster Australian Football match.

I think this shows a level of irrationality to your 'adopted' position. You're not an angry old Fitzroy fan are you? Although, I've enjoyed a 60 pt thrashing in AFL well ahead of the MVFC v SFC 0-0 draw back in HAL V2. Close needn't meen good. But gee - over the last 10 years there's been a number of fabulously contested close AFL GF's alone that were tough, hard, and absorbing from start to finish. And certainly a blow-out NRL GF or two that were non-events from about 20 mins in.

the tougher of the two sports. You only have to be a athlete and be able to kick fairly well to play Australian Football but Rugby League you need strength, endurance

Tougher is a subjective measure. You're background at full forward perhaps wasn't the best point of comparison. Perhaps in the ruck or midfield you might've had your toughness and endurance better tested....or as a key back, your mental toughness get's very much tested.....but a glory boy full forward getting fed by teammates......bah humbug!!

The unstructured nature of Australian Football makes it hard to watch and the fact that it is getting softer and softer since about 1995 has pushed me further and further away from the sport.

What? on tele? Certainly RL is straight lines, no one coming from behind - even a Northern Englishman can cope with that.
Softer and softer since 1995 though? How so? Did you approve of the dirty play of (sadly) legends of the game like Leigh Matthews? Personally I always thought people like that as thugs.
The game today is certainly not 'softer'. It's less 'violent'. It's not soft.......other than the odd over officious umpire who drives everyone mad (not mentioning names....Razor Ray).

..more of a tackle then in Australian Football where grabbing and pulling to the ground is just required. I remember in one of my first games playing Rugby League, after years of playing AFL, I was tackled in the opening minutes and took a while to get up. After I got up, I wished I stayed down because the next time I got hit was from a shoulder charge which felt like a lighting bolt going through me.

Hmmm, I get it,....you prefer mobile wrestling to a ball game. Fair enough.

btw - AFL tackling is not about just pulling to the ground - far from it - that in fact is the premise of NRL tackling (with, depending on number of tacklers, the option of stripping may be a valid one) - the NRL tackler is generally attempting to protect and retain the ball - the AFL tackler is attempting to nullify the ability of the tackler to dispose legally of the ball, the AFL tackler would prefer to NOT go to ground so as to NOT be out of the next contest should 'play on' eventuate. The AFL tackler has a greater technical responsibility in applying the tackle, i.e. stricter 'high' restrictions, no 'in the back', and no tripping. The NRL tackler has pretty much anything goes.

End of the day - an NRL player is collecting tackles like an AFL player collects disposals. One game is a tackling game, the other is a ball handling game. The imperative of the player being tackled is different - and so too that of the tackler - but, you grossly over simplified and misrepresented AFL tackling in your statement.

I guess the NRL has to work out going forward about the games duty of care to players, we saw last year articles like Merv Cross calls for ban on shoulder charges and three-man gang tackles and Ban the shoulder charge. Would that lose you to the game? SBW got sin binned for a RL style shoulder charge in RU. Does that make RU too soft for you? Or, would you accept a code amending rules based on concerns from the medicos?

..I just know that I prefer to watch a "structured" match over a "fumbling" match which resembles sea gulls fighting over a chip.

This is number 1 from the NRL and DT's handbook of 'AFL objections.

In my experience of attending Storm matches back around late 90s and a recent SoO at Docklands - it's clear that the predictability of the first few tackles is only so-so for the crowd. But, should there be a fumble.....whoaaa!, "knock on!!". Sadly, I sit there yearning for a neutral contest for the ball. All too rarely is there a real 'contest'. RU folk brag that RU is about 'contested ball', compared to RL. Strange contests in RU with rolling mauls and the like - but, Aust Footy is actually a pretty honest and open 'contest' where, YOU.....CAN......SEE.....THE......BALL; unlike RU much of the time!!!!

You do realise, that the capacity of the great players to handle/execute cleanly and find space is primary measure of greatness in most 'invasion' field sports. The off-side codes are more like an 1800s 'battle' in a paddock in rural France during Springtime. Aust Footy is more like modern insurgent style fighting with less 'defined' armys or basically, no trenches/frontline/no-mans-land.

If it confuses people - well, it's a bit like the difference in computer games between real time and turn based. RL and American Football are pretty well turn based. Perhaps you found Age of Empires too confusing with enemies running everywhere all at once and you preferred a Civilization style turn based gaming instead??? (actually I like both). As you say though - personal preference, I agree - is fine - but, most of us, like what we like first and rationalise is second.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

not this s**t again

 

[moto748]

Quite. Is there no end to our suffering?

 

[Northern_Union]

Message to AuckMel: You visited home recently buddy? A few new developments.

 

[Aucklander]

Message to AuckMel: You visited home recently buddy? A few new developments.

I'm there mate, but I'm still having problems with the beta skin.

 

[Aucklander]

not this s**t again

I must admit I never really knew what to do with it (the thread) end of the day Rugby league fans and Aussie Rules fans barely find a common ground. Pity really.

 

[Barkly St End]

Well spotted Shotties.

 

[storm fan]

Lol thanks for the laughs. I'll reply to those who still have questions later today, it seems that explaining things in a simple way is too much to grasp for some people. Obviously had a hectic day in Sydney yesterday, was a great experience to be apart of. Run off my feet at the moment.

 

[Aucklander]

Lol thanks for the laughs. I'll reply to those who still have questions later today

Don't bother.

 

[Covertackle]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

. I can explain what's happening in the forward line 40 metres before the ball gets there and why players in there are shifting positions depending on what's happening up the field. I can explain why certain teams allow their small backmen to run off their player to stand in 20 metres of clear space.

"

id like to know more about this sort of stuff. player positioning etc. can you or anyone else reccomend a good book that covers that sort of thing. something set out in laymans terms, well stated?

an introduction perhaps, but on an adult scale....?

 

[.Shotties.]

A fair few of the basic AFL issued coaching manuals cover different set-ups across the field for different plays. Very very basic stuff but enough to give you an idea. A lot you have to watch teams and see how they react but something like this would at least give you an idea of what you're looking at in general terms. I've coached for a bit now from juniors through to assisting in low grade adult teams and a lot of what I know has come from solid beatings and working out what went wrong.

One bit of advice: Never play five tall in the forward line, no matter how good it looks on paper

 

[storm fan]

Don't bother.

Alright. There isn't any real need, every questioned put forward had already been answered anyway but you make the rules and I respect that.

id like to know more about this sort of stuff. player positioning etc. can you or anyone else reccomend a good book that covers that sort of thing. something set out in laymans terms, well stated?

an introduction perhaps, but on an adult scale....?

Careful ... Wouldn't want it to get too structured for you.

 

[Aucklander]

Alright. There isn't any real need, every questioned put forward had already been answered anyway but you make the rules and I respect that.

It's pretty obvious this isn't going to work so I'll limit any Aussie Rules talk to game days in this thread.

 

[.Shotties.]

I feel discriminated against.

 

[CooperCronk]

It's pretty obvious this isn't going to work so I'll limit any Aussie Rules talk to game days in this thread.

 

[Munro_Mick]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

not this s**t again

What?

Stormfan interrupting a conversation that was progressing pretty innocently and hijacking it with irrational code baiting (really shouldn't matter too much the particular forum).

and AuckMel now goes pandering to the Stormfan's of this world. That's somewhat disappointing.

One might be heard to mutter "....not this s**t again."

 

[Aucklander]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

What?

Stormfan interrupting a conversation that was progressing pretty innocently and hijacking it with irrational code baiting (really shouldn't matter too much the particular forum).

Did you really think it was innocent? I get the impression tigernova is here to do a bit of stirring. Follow up posts tend to suggest that may be right.

and AuckMel now goes pandering to the Stormfan's of this world. That's somewhat disappointing.

One might be heard to mutter "....not this s**t again."

Don't blame me, blame people who continue to disregard my pleas to take some stuff to PM. I was happy for the discussion to continue until then.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

What?

Stormfan interrupting a conversation that was progressing pretty innocently and hijacking it with irrational code baiting (really shouldn't matter too much the particular forum).

and AuckMel now goes pandering to the Stormfan's of this world. That's somewhat disappointing.

One might be heard to mutter "....not this s**t again."

What Auckmel said. Someone comes onto this small board to just post that AFL is better than rugby league>Storm Fan jumps on the bait as ever>shitty discussion that has been done to death.

 

[storm fan]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

Munro is the most disappointing. Shotties has been causing trouble for while but Munro has actually got a understanding of a conversation/debate. I remember a good debate/conversation Munro and myself had on the development/history of Aussie Rules as a sport which was in good spirits and a quality conversation without any need for insults towards anyone or anything.

 

[.Shotties.]

Re: AFL is the better game. says NRL diehard

What Auckmel said. Someone comes onto this small board to just post that AFL is better than rugby league>Storm Fan jumps on the bait as ever>shitty discussion that has been done to death.

I have no interest in comparing, I just find Storm Fans ongoing lying in almost any discussion on the board baffling. 25 years immersion in a sport and the sum total analysis is "seagulls fumbling over a chip" and "unstructured".

Homegirl please.