Only Five Clubs Profit Without Pokies - The Big 5?

[master bate]

the AFL needs to step in and ban clubs from having pokies.

I'm all for gambling I love it their was a time it supplemented my income. But pokies? pokies are designed to take peoples money and that's it theirs no skill involved like many other forms of gambling. it's all random. not only that but their deigned to distract people and keep them spending without coming any closer to winning.

betting on sports, cards, races, etc can be done and done well, obviously you will still lose theres never a sure thing (as round 1 taught us) but you can maximise your odd's you have some input over your winnings. on top of that the myths around pokies, the machines encourage people to spend more, the anonymous nature of pokies.

the more i look it, I just can't justify pokies providing any value for anything, or anyone.

The issue with that is everyone knows the pokies is rigged yet people still play. What tells you that if the pokies are banned that the people who were addicted to them will be smart enough to become skilled card gamers or professional horse punters?

I certainly think that pokies should be banned as they provide no benefit besides to our footy clubs and they employ a few people in pubs but not a huge amount given the scale of destruction. But a side effect of banning pokies will be that the casino swells (in which case hopefully the government can focus attention there) and that addicts move to sports betting and racing. The positive is that at least those industries employ significant people (particularly racing) and that instead of spinning away dollars in the machine the betting nature should be protective in some way. Just either having to go bet with the TAB and a person or to continually dumping money in to an account with a bookmaker might be able to be tracked more than sitting at a soul sucking machine.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

The issue with that is everyone knows the pokies is rigged yet people still play. What tells you that if the pokies are banned that the people who were addicted to them will be smart enough to become skilled card gamers or professional horse punters?

I certainly think that pokies should be banned as they provide no benefit besides to our footy clubs and they employ a few people in pubs but not a huge amount given the scale of destruction. But a side effect of banning pokies will be that the casino swells (in which case hopefully the government can focus attention there) and that addicts move to sports betting and racing. The positive is that at least those industries employ significant people (particularly racing) and that instead of spinning away dollars in the machine the betting nature should be protective in some way. Just either having to go bet with the TAB and a person or to continually dumping money in to an account with a bookmaker might be able to be tracked more than sitting at a soul sucking machine.

I dont believe its that easy for one thing its the simplicity and ease of access to pokies. most states have 1 casino if that your not going to see an influx of people heading down to star city to play pontoon anymore then they already do.

secondly its more about preventing another generation of dumbshits getting there pokie rush on. I'm not arguing the government should ban them (although its hard to argue against) I'm saying the AFL should not allow clubs to be involved with them. (or tom water house for that matter) It's about ethics, at least alcohol provides a great deal of social interaction, but pokies?

 

[brisbane13]

The issue with that is everyone knows the pokies is rigged yet people still play. What tells you that if the pokies are banned that the people who were addicted to them will be smart enough to become skilled card gamers or professional horse punters?

I certainly think that pokies should be banned as they provide no benefit besides to our footy clubs and they employ a few people in pubs but not a huge amount given the scale of destruction. But a side effect of banning pokies will be that the casino swells (in which case hopefully the government can focus attention there) and that addicts move to sports betting and racing. The positive is that at least those industries employ significant people (particularly racing) and that instead of spinning away dollars in the machine the betting nature should be protective in some way. Just either having to go bet with the TAB and a person or to continually dumping money in to an account with a bookmaker might be able to be tracked more than sittingt a soul sucking machine.

pokes are easy money for any one with the money to buy a gaming licence, which means a lot of easy money for the Government, so why would they ban them.
people seemed surprised with clubs using pokes as a stream of revenue. when when you compare it the NRL, pokes have been pretty much the only money spinner for the clubs, playing in empty grounds wont attract sponsors. and make money. most clubs own several venues, that resemble a small casino.
the AFL clubs are only starting to tap in to the pokes

 

[JeffDunne]

Regardless of the moral debate over gambling and pokies, professional sporting clubs should be banned from any association with gambling due to the risk it presents. While I accept pokies don't necessarily expose the competition to the same risks as other forms of gambling, prudence would dictate all association with gambling is removed.

That includes accepting advertising revenue.

Sports administrators with any credibility self-impose this restriction. Since the AFL & administrators have none, laws should be passed to force it on them.

 

[telsor]

Profit for an AFL club is a wierd concept.

All it means is they took in more than they spent.

Tell them they're getting less revenue (in this case, no pokies money) and many of them could budget accordingly and still make a 'profit'.


That said, while I hate pokies, it is incumbent on all clubs to maximise their income in all legal ways, so for as long as it's legal, they should get as much from pokies as they can. It's no more 'unfair' than a club selling a scarf for as much of a markup as they can get away with.

 

[The Speaker]

Profit for an AFL club is a wierd concept.

All it means is they took in more than they spent.

Tell them they're getting less revenue (in this case, no pokies money) and many of them could budget accordingly and still make a 'profit'.


That said, while I hate pokies, it is incumbent on all clubs to maximise their income in all legal ways, so for as long as it's legal, they should get as much from pokies as they can. It's no more 'unfair' than a club selling a scarf for as much of a markup as they can get away with.

Can a scarf be addictive?

 

[telsor]

Can a scarf be addictive?

Do football clubs have the legislative power to change anything?

If they don't run/profit from the machines, then the government wont change the number of machine licences, so they'll just be run by someone else.

This being the case, the only difference is that if football clubs say no to this revenue stream, the money will go to woolies. I'd rather it go to football.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Oh if only it was that simple. There are a lot more factors at play than IQ (which is no measure at all for vulnerability to pokie addiction).

I'm not suggesting it's just people with low IQ. People with high IQs can be equally stupid when it comes to gambling and the like.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Seniors arent interacting when playing pokies, they sit there glued to the screen not talking to anyone

Oh, that myth!
I have never worked at a venue where that is the case
Most come in, spend 15 mins talking to the staff, then sit down with $20, chatting to the people around them as they play

There is still so many misconceptions about gambling
For example, it's actually males, aged 18-35 who have the biggest gambling problem
This gambling problem is attributed to sports betting

If pokies are banned, clubs will just move into sports betting

 

[Pessimistic]

To me, the moral argument for or against pokies is moot.

Its the fact that the financial fundamentals of the afls core business are so out of whack that these and other ventures are needed.

Even more so when the afl and club entities are deemed 'not for profit'

This is e third most attended professional sport in the world, which is limited to one smallish country

 

[tige19]

Why is having a successful pokies venture such a issue? It is a legitimate and legal way for a football club to drive revenue, it is no different to NRL clubs having their leagues clubs! no-one speaks negatively about that. We are lucky we live in a free country where we have the choice to work in certain or jobs or take certain career paths, we also have the right to spend our money how we see fit and invest our money in any form of business venture we like. Those on the high moral ground chastising clubs going down the pokie path really need to ensure their lives are squeaky clean, I hope you don't smoke/drink/punt on the horses/eat to much red meat/eat caged eggs/never watched pr0n/never been to strippers.

Some people....

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Do not mistake average use with healthy use. That view that we know better than the doctors and researches who come up with these guidelines is a massive part of why alcohol is a massive problem in this country - I dont think the general public actually realises how much of a burden it causes. (I have worked in general health, and continue to work in mental health, and trust me when I say that our public hospitals would look pretty empty if we were able to wipeout all alcohol related illness/injury/mental health issues)..

I'm not conflating average use with harmful use and I've never denied the fact that alcohol is a major issue with social and health implications. I have worked in enough detoxes and mental health facilities to know this. Have had to stick valium gel up clients' arses to stop seizures and wipe the blood from the walls following the rupturing of oesophageal varices. I have argued on other threads aboput the dangers of alcohol above other drugs.
However, I think the harm caused by pokie addiction is often minimised and the cost to society is huge. This shouldn't be about alcohol v gambling in terms of harm.

Now statistics and guidelines are far from the be all and end all, and shouldn't be used while ignoring other individual factors, BUT public health and epidemiology exist for a reason - because those statistics actually tell us a hell of a lot about our population's level of risks and ways that it can be managed.[/quote]

Exactly. That's what pisses me off about governments (of all persuasion) who have dropped the ball on gambling reform (too many vested interests) despite calls from researchers, treatment providers , public health advocates and the productivity commission to introduce mandatory pre-committment technology as a harm inimisation strategy.

As you work in the mental health field you may come across an increasing co-morbidity, that of methamphetamine addiction and pokie use. 70% of my customers in gaol are there for these reasons. I hope your organisation screen for PG as it's highly prevalent in those with mental health problems

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I'm not suggesting it's just people with low IQ. People with high IQs can be equally stupid vulnerable when it comes to gambling and the like.

Fixed it for ya

 

[Sttew]

I'm so glad that we don't have those filthy machines out West.

Just a matter of time. As the mining boom comes to an end the state government will have to find income somewhere. Bookmark it

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

what is wrong with pokies? they're a perfectly legitimate source of income. they don't put a gun to anybody's head and say 'dump your life savings here'. if people have no self control that's their problem. I played them before. lost. and said this isn't for me. walked away. the fact is that its difficult to run a sporting team into profit because the goal is to win. you think fans would be happy if they came 17th but the club announces a successful season because they made a profit? the fans would demand the profits be spent on improving their languishing club.

 

[Kram]

Just a matter of time. As the mining boom comes to an end the state government will have to find income somewhere. Bookmark it

I think I will just bookmark you down for having absolutely NFI.

 

[Kwality]

what is wrong with pokies? they're a perfectly legitimate source of income. they don't put a gun to anybody's head and say 'dump your life savings here'. if people have no self control that's their problem. I played them before. lost. and said this isn't for me. walked away. the fact is that its difficult to run a sporting team into profit because the goal is to win. you think fans would be happy if they came 17th but the club announces a successful season because they made a profit? the fans would demand the profits be spent on improving their languishing club.

Its about a footy operations that are not sustainable, spending more than you earn. Pokies are the equivalent of another sponsor.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Fixed it for ya

no. call a spade a spade. that's such a cop-out. you change the word for it and it completely absolves people of all responsibility for their actions. you gamble you will lose money 100% statistically guaranteed. people know this. if they still continue to do it then good riddance. I gamble because it makes the games more enjoyable (westhoff for showdown medal anyone?). I'm not sick. If I can't control myself then I shouldn't expect society to pick up the tab (which we will do if clubs lose pokie revenue).

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Its about a footy operations that are not sustainable, spending more than you earn. Pokies are the equivalent of another sponsor.

can always raise membership rates...

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You aren't seriously arguing that alcohol is worse than pokies are you?

What? Of course it is.

 

[Sttew]

I think I will just bookmark you down for having absolutely NFI.

Go ahead, Make my day. I just know that for decades Victorian governments (Labor & Liberal) said there will never be pokies south of the border. Look now

 

[00Stinger]

Imagine how profitable freo and west coast would be if pokies were allowed in WA!!! All those cashed up miners who love to spend their disposable high incomes...

There are no pokies in WA?

 

[Hoops]

I remember when pokies didn't exist in Victoria, and a lot of Victorians would go to places like Moama or Barooga or other NSW border towns for their fix and bring their problems home whilst contributing to NSW's coffers. It's OK for an Isolated state like WA to be pokie free but if it's to work in Vicroria then it must include NSW which is even more unlikely as they are even more addicted and they actually believe they contributes to the community.

 

[madmug]

Pokies, legal issue versus moral issue.
Clubs purport to be working for community benefit, & generally they are, then their are the Pokie dens they run!!!

 

[Kram]

Go ahead, Make my day. I just know that for decades Victorian governments (Labor & Liberal) said there will never be pokies south of the border. Look now

So what that's Victoria.

If you really think that they will be introduced over here then you obviously know nothing about Western Australia.