Opinion Our Cheersquad

[Elixuh]

So, now in 'leaner' years where finals seem a distant memory, the motivation to 'work' for the cheersquad is quite substantially less, and several die-hard members plug away week after week because we(they) love the club and don't want the players to have to run onto the ground with nothing to run through.

Because, tired tradition or not, it is still something that every team does and until the day the banners are no longer used the cheersquad(s) continue on.

I have no ambition or want to join the cheer squad but do appreciate the work they do in that respect. It would be very embarrassing for the club and I think most supporters if come game day the players had nothing to run through. Those who make and hold up the banner do a stellar job.

 

[adey115]

What I don't understand is.....

The CS of every club spends a couple of hours a week producing the banners - a unique part of our game dating back decades, to the streamer banners taped across the race at all the grounds around Melbourne in the 40s, through the giant banners of the 70/80s, and now to the more corporate sponsor driven setup of today.

Yet the players no longer break 'em. They lift and run under, or move through a cut in them.

I've never seen a player injured breaking a banner. Sure Kevin Barlett might have tripped up running through his 400th. But no hamstring or ACL joint has ever been done running through a banner.

Given the efforts of every club's supporter, you'd think the least the players could do is show some respect by ripping in to them like they used to.

 

[POBT]

 

[adey115]

Mental note - don't use actual photocopy quality paper, don't pick anyone under ten years of age in an AFL senior squad.....

 

[Pancho Gonzales]

I've been a Melbourne cheer squad member for over 10 years and have spent time at both ends of the spectrum. I've spent late nights putting the banner together, struggled in the wind and rain to get the damn thing upright and cheered the boys through it. In more recent years I've also enjoyed the seating behind the goals with family and like minded fans in (normally) fairly hostile crowds - safety in numbers! I have a foot firmly in both camps based on the previous comments - I agree that the committee could create a more inclusive, friendly environment, but I also respect the AFL framework that they have to adhere to. I've been witness to numerous ugly opposition incidents over the years; apparently the opposition cheersquad is the focal point for an alcohol fueled rant if your team is either winning (or losing). Our president has had to stare down quite a few drunk yobbos in the name of protecting the cheersquad area, so I think you can cut her a little slack for sometimes being a bit blunt with non-cheersquad members who look to sit in the area. It's not a GA area and you can't possibly have a ticket to sit there, so why try and sit there without permission? I've seen plenty of people welcomed into the area if room allows, so maybe asking before sitting might help?

The team in charge of the Melbourne cheer squad are some of the most die hard fans I've ever met and they've been taking care of business down here since the merger. True, it might seem like a exclusive club, but if you want to be a part of it all, pay your $$ and join in. My family was welcomed back when Jed was a fresh faced boy from Maryborough and we're always friendly to new faces!

 

[Skoob]

I've been a Melbourne cheer squad member for over 10 years and have spent time at both ends of the spectrum. I've spent late nights putting the banner together, struggled in the wind and rain to get the damn thing upright and cheered the boys through it. In more recent years I've also enjoyed the seating behind the goals with family and like minded fans in (normally) fairly hostile crowds - safety in numbers! I have a foot firmly in both camps based on the previous comments - I agree that the committee could create a more inclusive, friendly environment, but I also respect the AFL framework that they have to adhere to. I've been witness to numerous ugly opposition incidents over the years; apparently the opposition cheersquad is the focal point for an alcohol fueled rant if your team is either winning (or losing). Our president has had to stare down quite a few drunk yobbos in the name of protecting the cheersquad area, so I think you can cut her a little slack for sometimes being a bit blunt with non-cheersquad members who look to sit in the area. It's not a GA area and you can't possibly have a ticket to sit there, so why try and sit there without permission? I've seen plenty of people welcomed into the area if room allows, so maybe asking before sitting might help?

The team in charge of the Melbourne cheer squad are some of the most die hard fans I've ever met and they've been taking care of business down here since the merger. True, it might seem like a exclusive club, but if you want to be a part of it all, pay your $$ and join in. My family was welcomed back when Jed was a fresh faced boy from Maryborough and we're always friendly to new faces!

That's a great perspective from 'the other side' Pancho. I guess there are a lot of other members who are equally "diehard" who may feel that cheersquad activities aren't their thing and that those who do/are can come across as entitled or arrogant, but that probably isn't the case. You make a very good point about the work they put in and s**t they cop that can make anyone protective of their area and involvement.
I'm in the camp of those who don't feel the cheersquad thing is their gig, but appreciate the efforts of those who do. One suggestion has been to make entry to the official cheersquad cheaper or easier, which I considered sensible, but reading your side of things, don't think that's the way to go. We want real diehard fans like yourself and Kezz in the CS and one way to ensure the validity of folk is to ask them to put their money where their mouths are. What the squads need is better/more focus from the club in terms of recruiting members. As far as I've seen, it appears as a membership upgrade/extra, but no real invitation or selling of the idea. I hope they do more there. It is probably a good idea (no idea if this goes on already) to try to get an idea of numbers turning up to each game, so that the squad can go about inviting other members to fill some seats if the group is looking lean.
I've never considered sitting in that area (at the GABBA) as it is unlicenced, but it is only just the other side of the race from where I sit and have always thought if they are short handed to raise/hold the banner, I would be happy to help. I suspect that isn't a problem, as I assume most would relish the opportunity to be out on the ground. I guess everyone needs to remember why we're there at the end of the day.

 

[Ze Boy]

In fairness to the cheer-squad Nazi lady...as you would know as a member, (having done the same thing myself), you signed a consent form to agree to abide by the AFL cheer-squad rules and regulations ..theses rules apply to all clubs.....The Club is responsible for the conduct and behavior of all members of the cheer-squad or it faces a $5000 fine if these rules aren't followed......The AFL supplies 100 seats (10 rows) to the cheer-squad...and is an non alcohol area..The AFL have been trying to get the cheer-squads family orientated areas...Trouble is Cheer-squads are targeted by opposition supporters....Fun banter can turn ugly depending on how ones team is winning or losing and not every person is blessed with being reasonable...in the past.... outsiders/non members/blow-ins sitting in vacant seats have been the instigators of fights leading to all in brawls....Club is fined

Alright, this does my head in.

You are paying to be a member, you are further paying to be a cheer squad member.

You really don't have to do either of these things.

That is your bargaining chip, actually it's your ammunition.

They want your/our money.

Who gives a s**t about rules the AFL made if you don't like them don't buy any of these things and don't do banners close shop etc.

Nobody is forcing you to do it, you're cheersquading off your own accord with your own money.

Hell you've already got nobody willing to join for mostly these reasons, it really shouldn't be so hard to point out to the club that the strictness and extra costs are a put offs for regular joe who not only finds it to be a waste of time but is alienated from joining because of how ridiculous the rules concerning cheersquading are.

 

[Skoob]

Alright, this does my head in.

You are paying to be a member, you are further paying to be a cheer squad member.

You really don't have to do either of these things.

That is your bargaining chip, actually it's your ammunition.

They want your/our money.

Who gives a s**t about rules the AFL made if you don't like them don't buy any of these things and don't do banners close shop etc.

Nobody is forcing you to do it, you're cheersquading off your own accord with your own money.

Hell you've already got nobody willing to join for mostly these reasons, it really shouldn't be so hard to point out to the club that the strictness and extra costs are a put offs for regular joe who not only finds it to be a waste of time but is alienated from joining because of how ridiculous the rules concerning cheersquading are.

That's a really strange post. There is no "bargaining chip", the rules are in place for a reason, as are the costs. I don't think the cheersquads are supposed to be filled with "the average Joe" they are hopefully full of diehard fanatics and the costs in part keep the riff raff out.
The idea of "closing shop" and not having a cheersquad at all makes no sense and achieves nothing, other than making your club look pathetic and that reflects on everyone other than the AFL.
I think you've made this post about the "ridiculous" rules without knowing what they are or what they're for and I can't tell if you're angry at the AFL or the cheersquad members or the club.
Perhaps the best way to alleviate the angst regarding who is permitted into the CS area is to ask for security to be available to check who enters. This can be requested by the club to the stadium management. Maybe even a club staffer could assist with this so that it isn't the poor humble fan having to police their area which could come across as unfair or rude to the unaware. Clearer marking of the designated seating may also help the cause.

 

[MacMum]

Have thought for a while that the banner has had its day.....maybe if members of CS weren't required to put in hours making them, they would have more members..

...a couple of ideas.

1....... a banner only on special occasions eg finals or retirement of a champ.

2....... on all gamedays, choose supporters from the CS/crowd to line up in front of the players race and clap and cheer them out onto the ground.

Supporters and particularly kids, would love to be chosen from the crowd to cheer out their heroes.

 

[Football Pope]

Alright, this does my head in.

You are paying to be a member, you are further paying to be a cheer squad member.

You really don't have to do either of these things.

That is your bargaining chip, actually it's your ammunition.

They want your/our money.

Who gives a s**t about rules the AFL made if you don't like them don't buy any of these things and don't do banners close shop etc.

Nobody is forcing you to do it, you're cheersquading off your own accord with your own money.

Hell you've already got nobody willing to join for mostly these reasons, it really shouldn't be so hard to point out to the club that the strictness and extra costs are a put offs for regular joe who not only finds it to be a waste of time but is alienated from joining because of how ridiculous the rules concerning cheersquading are.

Yeah thanks, How good is it to have choices in life!!...I don't want to over do things... my membership in rebelling only allowed me one option this year and I'm already using that, by not following the rules with Philatelics Australia....just to put a stamp on my own authority..

 

[Lion for Life]

That's a really strange post. There is no "bargaining chip", the rules are in place for a reason, as are the costs. I don't think the cheersquads are supposed to be filled with "the average Joe" they are hopefully full of diehard fanatics and the costs in part keep the riff raff out.
The idea of "closing shop" and not having a cheersquad at all makes no sense and achieves nothing, other than making your club look pathetic and that reflects on everyone other than the AFL.
I think you've made this post about the "ridiculous" rules without knowing what they are or what they're for and I can't tell if you're angry at the AFL or the cheersquad members or the club.
Perhaps the best way to alleviate the angst regarding who is permitted into the CS area is to ask for security to be available to check who enters. This can be requested by the club to the stadium management. Maybe even a club staffer could assist with this so that it isn't the poor humble fan having to police their area which could come across as unfair or rude to the unaware. Clearer marking of the designated seating may also help the cause.

I think the point he's trying to get across is that all the so called "rules" or more guidelines if you like are the major turnoffs for people, things such as non provocative chants/banners, iron fist type leadership which doesn't allow for innovation, new ideas etc. and just in general the current system in place across the AFL that has stifled any further development in cheering at AFL matches.

If you look at other sports around the world (not just soccer by the way) cheering/chants and just general fan behavior as a whole often leaves our game for dead. The reasons above are in part the cause for this as the AFL influenced thier idea/vision on what they wanted with cheering in around the early 90'sish that pretty much gives us the plastic model of today.

What ZeBoy is advocating is that the cheersquad ignore the rules/guidelines, break them, do away with the iron fist dictatorship and be open to new ideas/consultation and do something truly innovative in AFL, do thier own thing and be noticed, who knows then the crowd influence they will have if they can get chants that are fun, cheeky and at times provocative towards opposition, it is bound to get the average punter joining in and turning the gabba into imposing fortress for other teams.

 

[chopperduck]

I cant comment myself, havent had much to do with the cheer squad or anyone in it. My wife has always had a negative feeling towards it though, which goes back to when she was doing the auskick back about 06. Like what others have said, just found members of it rude and unapproachable, as if they were too good for mere normal members.

Again, cant comment personally, but there does seem to be a bit of a common theme. I certainly dont mean to tar everyone in the cheersquad with the same brush though.

 

[chopperduck]

Dont think we can afford to be cheeky or provocative with our chants and general atmosphere at games. It is a growing game here and we need heaps of families and kids at the games. This kind of behavior wouldnt be overly welcoming. You could get away with it down south, but I think we need to stay very family friendly on game day, boring as it may be.

We still need to encourage general crowd participation before we worry about the quality/type.

 

[Skoob]

I think the point he's trying to get across is that all the so called "rules" or more guidelines if you like are the major turnoffs for people, things such as non provocative chants/banners, iron fist type leadership which doesn't allow for innovation, new ideas etc. and just in general the current system in place across the AFL that has stifled any further development in cheering at AFL matches.

If you look at other sports around the world (not just soccer by the way) cheering/chants and just general fan behavior as a whole often leaves our game for dead. The reasons above are in part the cause for this as the AFL influenced thier idea/vision on what they wanted with cheering in around the early 90'sish that pretty much gives us the plastic model of today.

What ZeBoy is advocating is that the cheersquad ignore the rules/guidelines, break them, do away with the iron fist dictatorship and be open to new ideas/consultation and do something truly innovative in AFL, do thier own thing and be noticed, who knows then the crowd influence they will have if they can get chants that are fun, cheeky and at times provocative towards opposition, it is bound to get the average punter joining in and turning the gabba into imposing fortress for other teams.

Hmmm, I didn't get that vibe. It was much more a "tell 'em to stick it" type vibe, which I don't think would be helpful at all. Provoking and cajoling the opposition fans (a lot of them on the sauce) is asking for trouble which can quickly spread in a crowd. We don't segregate supporters at AFL, so it has to remain fun, and for official sections eg. the CS, strict guidelines and behaviour need to be enforced.
You did mention soccer as an example of freedom for provocation, I can't think of a sport that has more issues with crowd behaviour. Maybe there is no link, but I doubt it helps. A major role of the modern AFL CS is to be seen on telly, with the goals the focus of cameras and the crowd. If things aren't kept to script in ththose sections, it's not a good look.
As I said before, I think the major stumbling block is membership drive/awareness. I think it needs more club input, both in getting numbers and organisation. (Financially as well obviously).

 

[Football Pope]

I think the point he's trying to get across is that all the so called "rules" or more guidelines if you like are the major turnoffs for people, things such as non provocative chants/banners, iron fist type leadership which doesn't allow for innovation, new ideas etc. and just in general the current system in place across the AFL that has stifled any further development in cheering at AFL matches.

If you look at other sports around the world (not just soccer by the way) cheering/chants and just general fan behavior as a whole often leaves our game for dead. The reasons above are in part the cause for this as the AFL influenced thier idea/vision on what they wanted with cheering in around the early 90'sish that pretty much gives us the plastic model of today.

What ZeBoy is advocating is that the cheersquad ignore the rules/guidelines, break them, do away with the iron fist dictatorship and be open to new ideas/consultation and do something truly innovative in AFL, do thier own thing and be noticed, who knows then the crowd influence they will have if they can get chants that are fun, cheeky and at times provocative towards opposition, it is bound to get the average punter joining in and turning the gabba into imposing fortress for other teams.

I didn't get that from ZeBoys post at all...not sure how you read that into...

"Who gives a s**t about rules the AFL made if you don't like them don't buy any of these things and don't do banners close shop etc."

or

Nobody is forcing you to do it, you're cheersquading off your own accord with your own money
"You are paying to be a member, you are further paying to be a cheer squad member. You really don't have to do either of these things.
That is your bargaining chip, actually it's your ammunition"

Happy to be wrong....found it to be more to be questioning an individuals choice and the decisions made in supporting a club.

 

[Lion for Life]

Dont think we can afford to be cheeky or provocative with our chants and general atmosphere at games. It is a growing game here and we need heaps of families and kids at the games. This kind of behavior wouldnt be overly welcoming. You could get away with it down south, but I think we need to stay very family friendly on game day, boring as it may be.

We still need to encourage general crowd participation before we worry about the quality/type.

Hmmm, I didn't get that vibe. It was much more a "tell 'em to stick it" type vibe, which I don't think would be helpful at all. Provoking and cajoling the opposition fans (a lot of them on the sauce) is asking for trouble which can quickly spread in a crowd. We don't segregate supporters at AFL, so it has to remain fun, and for official sections eg. the CS, strict guidelines and behaviour need to be enforced.
You did mention soccer as an example of freedom for provocation, I can't think of a sport that has more issues with crowd behaviour. Maybe there is no link, but I doubt it helps. A major role of the modern AFL CS is to be seen on telly, with the goals the focus of cameras and the crowd. If things aren't kept to script in ththose sections, it's not a good look.
As I said before, I think the major stumbling block is membership drive/awareness. I think it needs more club input, both in getting numbers and organisation. (Financially as well obviously).

By saying provocative i certainly didn't mean flat out offensive but a little bit of a light ribbing is not out of place, one example might be the other week when we were spanking the Pies the chant could have been "you're not playing finals!", would be pretty funny if you ask me and also something pretty commonplace at a grassroots/suburban level.

Anyway, at the end of the day i personally find AFL crowd support to be tame and dare i say it boring, i can live with that because i enjoy watching the game but if it is to improve in any way the status quo is just not good enough and the system would need an overhaul.

 

[Ze Boy]

Basically I'm used to something very different so my mentality is different so I'm sorry if I came off a little more aggressively.

But yeah the vibe I'm getting especially from the post I singled out was... 'We're heavily restriced by the AFL 'guidelines' which we must adhere to vehemently but that is detrimental to what we want to achieve' which is greater participation, but if you don't like it don't bother'.

It's like saying 'We want your help but we don't actually want you to be part of this, we don't want your input, we don't want your ideals, in general we don't really want you, we just want you to help us make banners on Friday '.

Supportership shouldn't be a chore or a need to have type thing, it should be that people want to support and that only happens when people are allowed to express themselves and are not tied down by dicky little heavily enforced guidelines that frankly make it all seem very unfriendly, unwelcoming and untenable.

At the end of the day this whole thread is about recruiting new members to the cheersquad cause.

You need to ask why and how that is not happening and why it won't happen in the future.

So if you want to grow something needs to change.

 

[Skoob]

Basically I'm used to something very different so my mentality is different so I'm sorry if I came off a little more aggressively.

But yeah the vibe I'm getting especially from the post I singled out was... 'We're heavily restriced by the AFL 'guidelines' which we must adhere to vehemently but that is detrimental to what we want to achieve' which is greater participation, but if you don't like it don't bother'.

It's like saying 'We want your help but we don't actually want you to be part of this, we don't want your input, we don't want your ideals, in general we don't really want you, we just want you to help us make banners on Friday '.

Supportership shouldn't be a chore or a need to have type thing, it should be that people want to support and that only happens when people are allowed to express themselves and are not tied down by dicky little heavily enforced guidelines that frankly make it all seem very unfriendly, unwelcoming and untenable.

At the end of the day this whole thread is about recruiting new members to the cheersquad cause.

You need to ask why and how that is not happening and why it won't happen in the future.

So if you want to grow something needs to change.

That's much more reasonable and better explained.
Having said that, I think you misread Football Pope 's post. While philcara16 felt unwelcome and the CS leader a bit overzealous, Pope was offering a pretty reasonable explanation as to why the lady was so adamant not to have people sit where they like. There are rules, and they must be followed. In fairness, I don't think you or I know all those rules, so it's a bit hard to say they are silly or unfair/unreasonable or something keeping people away.

No doubt there would be people who are arrogant about their membership in the cheersquad, and I'd say they are entitled to some if they are putting in the hours of preparation and organisation. They don't all just turn up on the day and things magically happen. Having said that, they also need to realise that they need numbers and accepting new people with some grace and diplomacy is important. There would be a good number of people who join and contribute nothing, and there would others who join and think they can just come in and set about changing things. I'm sure people who have put in hours of work each week for 10+ years wouldn't appreciate a newcomer telling them how things should be done. Like any organisation, new people need to fit in first, learn how things are done and when they establish themselves as part of the team, can then set about improving/changing things. Again, to do that, you'd have to be a pretty hard core fan. (IMO)
This is why I think they could benefit from club organisation. A staff member who is employed for their organisational skills who sees it from a professional side of things rather than personal property. Squads are generally run by fans and are independant from the club so they can't just take over, but if invited, the club should respond, and in fact should probably offer involvement, given the poor numbers.

Maybe it's a case of, there is a problem with some personnel, but there is reason for why they are how they are. Is the behaviour/attitude acceptable? Is it the cause for poor numbers and involvement? I only know of one person here who is in the Brisbane CS, I would like to hear from others as well.

 

[Ze Boy]

That's much more reasonable and better explained.
Having said that, I think you misread Football Pope 's post. While philcara16 felt unwelcome and the CS leader a bit overzealous, Pope was offering a pretty reasonable explanation as to why the lady was so adamant not to have people sit where they like. There are rules, and they must be followed. In fairness, I don't think you or I know all those rules, so it's a bit hard to say they are silly or unfair/unreasonable or something keeping people away.

No doubt there would be people who are arrogant about their membership in the cheersquad, and I'd say they are entitled to some if they are putting in the hours of preparation and organisation. They don't all just turn up on the day and things magically happen. Having said that, they also need to realise that they need numbers and accepting new people with some grace and diplomacy is important. There would be a good number of people who join and contribute nothing, and there would others who join and think they can just come in and set about changing things. I'm sure people who have put in hours of work each week for 10+ years wouldn't appreciate a newcomer telling them how things should be done. Like any organisation, new people need to fit in first, learn how things are done and when they establish themselves as part of the team, can then set about improving/changing things. Again, to do that, you'd have to be a pretty hard core fan. (IMO)
This is why I think they could benefit from club organisation. A staff member who is employed for their organisational skills who sees it from a professional side of things rather than personal property. Squads are generally run by fans and are independant from the club so they can't just take over, but if invited, the club should respond, and in fact should probably offer involvement, given the poor numbers.

Maybe it's a case of, there is a problem with some personnel, but there is reason for why they are how they are. Is the behaviour/attitude acceptable? Is it the cause for poor numbers and involvement? I only know of one person here who is in the Brisbane CS, I would like to hear from others as well.

Great read.

First off, that pic in my Av ain't there for no reason.

I know well perhaps more about what's required to run a terrace it's all new flags, new standards, new fence banners what size how large? What size? What's appropriate? Then t-shirts, scarfs made from nylon because it's hot in Melboune in the summer.

Then there's new songs, new chants, getting 5k of people to follow and agree with them.

And then there's security, police and public opinion and trying to make sure no one in the 5k of people oes anything stupid.

And then there's the ideals of the general global football supporters community ACAB, 1312.

We're an 'English terrace', no we're a 'European terrace'.

We're an Australian terrace.

Sponsors infringing on our space.

Sooks, blow ins and traitors.

Encouraging people not to talk to the media.

Cooperation, coordination and choreography.

Tifo.

Maintaining 100% independence and freedom.

It goes on and on and on and on.

Absolutly most of that lands on some truly legendary peoples (maybe 30 -40 lads) feet and it's their's to cope with.

But needless to say I think I know a thing or two about managing the issues surrounding a terrace.

To me it makes aruging about about a couple of hundred seats (when you're struggling for numbers) seem... Well completely laughable.

Last season North Terrace had a season long campaign involving exactly that issue, however it was completely opposite they wanted to get rid of a sectioned off area that the club and Gallop emposed that would section off the Members of North Terrace from the GA which has many NT accociated supporters.

It was truly horrid for everyone involved at the club.

This season after many (2k - 3k including me) boycotted or threatend to boycott their long held memberships, the club backflipped.

I have absolutely no desire to join an AFL CS, but believe me when I say it ours is going about it the wrong way.

And that's because they're going against a golden rule, which is that you never turn away any potential until you absolutely can afford to.

 

[ImAFreeMan]

Ask Eddie for a hand Patty

 

[brizrider]

Just read this thread. I thought the Lions banner these days was mostly cloth and largely reusable - minus some lettering I guess that would need to be changed for each game. Is this true and if so, how long does it take to do? Also, local footy club kids are involved in game day (Auskick/Guard of Honour). Could this be extended to involve them in banner making somehow? My kids had to be at the game an hour or so early do be involved in those things from memory. The banner could be created a couple of hours before game time for a home game - doesn't have to be Friday night does it? Even if you were only involving adults I wouldn't think Friday afternoon/night is the best time for most people.

 

[patfullfankezz]

They're going back to the paper banner I'm pretty sure - a LOT easier on the arms!

 

[Elixuh]

They're going back to the paper banner I'm pretty sure - a LOT easier on the arms!

If you get a good preseason under your belt you should be right Kez.

 

[Fatcat08]

They're going back to the paper banner I'm pretty sure - a LOT easier on the arms!

Clearly Burton hasn't got you guys lifting enough weights either Kezz

 

[Football Pope]

Bump.......

Basically I'm used to something very different so my mentality is different so I'm sorry if I came off a little more aggressively.

But yeah the vibe I'm getting especially from the post I singled out was... 'We're heavily restriced by the AFL 'guidelines' which we must adhere to vehemently but that is detrimental to what we want to achieve' which is greater participation, but if you don't like it don't bother'.

It's like saying 'We want your help but we don't actually want you to be part of this, we don't want your input, we don't want your ideals, in general we don't really want you, we just want you to help us make banners on Friday '.

Supportership shouldn't be a chore or a need to have type thing, it should be that people want to support and that only happens when people are allowed to express themselves and are not tied down by dicky little heavily enforced guidelines that frankly make it all seem very unfriendly, unwelcoming and untenable.

At the end of the day this whole thread is about recruiting new members to the cheersquad cause.

You need to ask why and how that is not happening and why it won't happen in the future.

So if you want to grow something needs to change.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/what-do-you-think-of-the-cheersquad-rules.1080363/