Our current top 25 in order

[Ian Dargie]

Well, on the eve of the new season, how does out current best 25 break down?

I started from the bottom and worked my way up.

Weighing best v most important, incorporating partly speculative criteria of who I expect to make the biggest contributions to success, here's my list:

1. Naitanui
2. Kennedy
3. Cox
4. Glass
5. Darling
6. Shuey
7. Selwood
8. Kerr
9. LeCras
10. Mackenzie
11. Waters
12. Hurn
13. Schofield
14. Priddis
15. Gaff
16. Wellingham
17. Masten
18. Rosa
19. Hill
20. Butler
21. Embley
22. Selwood
23. McGinnity
24. Sheppard
25. Nicoski

That top 10-12 could be ordered differently but I reckon that is our top tier.

Struggled to put the midfield in a decisive order – I reckon Shuey, Kerr and Selwood are the cream of the crop, with the others a rung below. And I reckon we need a couple of guys to get their noses in front of Kerr if we're to take the next step. Hence that order.

Do I have Kennedy too high? Priddis, Gaff or Masten too low? Too hard on Rosa?

Should Brennan or Brown be in there instead of Nicoski or Sheppard?

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Future success or 2013?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Kerr would be close to my number 1. Would definitely have him above Shuey and Selwood (for 2013).

 

[Ian Dargie]

Future success or 2013?

2013.

Kerr would be close to my number 1. Would definitely have him above Shuey and Selwood (for 2013).

Big call. Would need a massive resurgence to be No.1.

I still reckon he'll be up there but, like I said, I'm speculating that a couple guys nose ahead of him this year.

If Kerr remains our clear-cut top midfielder, I think it limits how much we can expect to improve.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Big call. Would need a massive resurgence to be No.1.

I still reckon he'll be up there but, like I said, I'm speculating that a couple guys nose ahead of him this year.

We'll see. I reckon he's the bloke who steps up in the massive games, and will continue to do so this year. Hopefully Shuey takes that next step because he tends to go missing on the big occasions at times.

 

[EagleMan87]

Kerr would be close to my number 1. Would definitely have him above Shuey and Selwood (for 2013).

In crunch games? Absolutely. But we have players who can make a big impact in over 80% of their games(Naitanui, Glass, Cox, Darling, Scooter, Kennedy, Waters, Hurn so far IMO), I'd consider them to be more important than our best big game player.

 

[Ian Dargie]

We'll see. I reckon he's the bloke who steps up in the massive games.

And that's been enough to keep at the top of the pile. Those others guys need to perform consistently enough that Kerr's cameos don't give him a mortgage on pole position.

You're probably right, though. Perhaps Kerr is too low.

I guess, in the back of my mind, I'm including an idea of where our improvement needs to come from.

 

[Public Enemy No1]

Kerr and Gaff a bit higher maybe...good effort though

 

[Rids]

Interesting - I think best vs most important are two very different lists and I couldn't find an appropriate way to weight them so I'm just going to cheat and do two lists. The best (for 2013 only):

1. Glass
2. Naitanui
3. Cox
4. Hurn
5. Kerr
6. Priddis
7. S.Selwood
8. LeCras
9. Gaff
10. Darling
11. Waters
12. Kennedy
13. Shuey
14. MacKenzie
15. Wellingham
16. Masten
17. Schofield
18. Rosa
19. Embley
20. Butler
21. Hill
22. Sheppard
23. Brown
24. Cripps
25. Nicoski

 

[Rids]

The more interesting list in my opinion is the most important list. For mine:

1. Naitanui - Absolute match winner. Can single handedly win the ball out of the middle for us as well as going forward and kicking a goal. Brings others into the game as well.
2. Hurn - When Hurn gets plenty of the ball, especially from forward of half back, we tend to win as he sets up goals better than anyone else so good are his foot skills.
3. Darling - I think he has emerged as our number 1 forward. Strong, agile, great defensively and thrives on the big game moments. Kennedy and LeCras are brilliant but I think they are easier to match-up on then Darling.
4. MacKenzie - Takes the best forward every week and the good sides tend to have very good forwards.
5. S.Selwood - I rate Scooter as a barometer more than any other player. His finals performances are a good example - he can be sublime (think shut-down job on Judd in 2011) or very poor (hammered by Beams and co. last year). Can shut down or run free and set up plenty - just crucial to our set-up.
6. Shuey - Although Kerr and Priddis win more hard ball I think Shuey sets up more attacking opportunities and is crucial to making the most of our talented forward line.
7. Kerr - Quality inside mids win premierships in hard contested football games.
8. Priddis - See Kerr.
9. Cox
10. Kennedy
11. LeCras
12. Gaff
13. Waters
14. Glass
15. Wellingham
16. Embley
17. Rosa
18. Schofield
19. Masten
20. Butler
21. A.Selwood
22. Hill
23. Nicoski
24. Brown
25. McGinnity

 

[Ian Dargie]

Kerr and Gaff a bit higher maybe...good effort though

Still reckon Gaff has a bit of work to do to live up to the hype. Is he more Shuey or Rosa?

 

[Ian Dargie]

The best (for 2013 only):

1. Glass
2. Naitanui
3. Cox
4. Hurn
5. Kerr
6. Priddis

Seriously?

The more interesting list in my opinion is the most important list. For mine:

1. Naitanui - Absolute match winner. Can single handedly win the ball out of the middle for us as well as going forward and kicking a goal. Brings others into the game as well.
2. Hurn - When Hurn gets plenty of the ball, especially from forward of half back, we tend to win as he sets up goals better than anyone else so good are his foot skills.

Hurn is our second-most important player?

The problem with putting together these lists based on 'most important' is that it means most sensible people skew it towards KPPs.

Certainly, it's much harder for us to replace a member of our first-choice spine than it is to replace a HBF, even one of Hurn's undoubted quality. If Kennedy breaks his leg, we have no readymade replacement. Does that make him our most important player?

The problem is that 'most important' doesn't necessarily reflect contribution. For example, in 2006, we had almost no replacement for Ash Hansen. That led some people to suggest he was our 'most important' player purely because we had no obvious replacement. That, for mine, is a bad metric.

Sure, we had no obvious replacement, but there were at least 8-9 guys whose contributions to our success were greater.

 

[Suma Magic]

Nice breakdown Dargs.

Your list is pretty spot on. I'd only change the last three, I think Brown will play a few games and be important, Brennan is our first defender off the rank, and Cripps just ahead of McGinnity and Sheppard.

But on a somewhat related note, if we want to play a defensive forward, who would that be from the top 21 you listed? I'm not sure who it would be. I'm not disagreeing with the 21 by the way.

 

[Suma Magic]

Actually I don't know about Brennan, maybe Nicoski still ahead.

And looking at most important, Lycett's ability to cover for Naitanui at the start of the season is critical to our top 4 chances. Although he's not good enough to be top 25. McInnes is another one who could play a few games and have a lot of weight on his shoulders.

 

[Marlin01]

- NN - rucks are our long suit. We lose either ruck and we fall back to the pack
- Cox
- Kerr - ability to set up play from contested situation with vision
- Shuey - pace. needs to kick more accurately for goal. Seems to have a man's body now.
- Hurn - good defender and his kick breaks down opposition structure
- Darling - most complete forward
- LeCras - probably our most skillful player
- Selwood - I like him in his negating role most.
- Mackenzie - deserved player of the finals. Could be higher.
- Waters - needs to take over backline general from Glass
- Glass - diminishing role has him outside top 5
- Gaff - already runs seasoned midfielders off their feet
- Kennedy
- Schofield - I expect him to push for AA 3TD spot.
- Masten

 

[the harry]

Still reckon Gaff has a bit of work to do to live up to the hype. Is he more Shuey or Rosa?

Got a better hurt factor/more creative than Rosa. Remember that game in 2011 v Saints where we didn't kick a goal for ages? There was a bit of play that I think that resulted in a Nico goal.... Gaff was staning about 30 out from goal facing across the ground and got a handball from someone, in the same motion of catching it put it on the left, and it landed in Nicoskis lap.

Nothing against Rosa, he's a good player and does very well for us, but there aren't too many 10 game players that do what Gaff did in this instance.

Doesn't have the explosive speed of Shuey though, but still a very good player.

Found video, play is @5:30

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Still reckon Gaff has a bit of work to do to live up to the hype. Is he more Shuey or Rosa?

Watch him explode into the best midfielder in the league when he is strong enough to force himself in and under. He will have that extra second every time he gets the ball ala Pendlebury

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Nicnat in top 2????? He does some amazing things no doubt but he is not in our top 2 players importance wise and especially best wise in my opinion.

My top 10 players in the club who consistently perform week in week out.

Dean Cox
Darren Glass
Mark Lecras
Andrew Gaff
Jack Darling
Daniel Kerr (Can be shut down)
Scott Selwood
Shannon Hurn
Mat Priddis (Opposition don't care how many touches he gets)
Mat Rosa

 

[ThePuma #9]

Great list and i have to agree with most of it, i do feel however that Gaff should be higher. I'm not trying to place unrealistic expectations on the kid, truth is he does that himself. Absolute freak. Also Kerr may just surprise some and have a big year. I don't feel he has shown his full hand just yet. Also i feel he may be tagged a little less this year too, and if so look out.

Naitanui is a freak and truly deserves top spot. His second, third and even fourth efforts are astounding for a kid his size. Leads the competition in contested ball which shows you two things. He gravitates towards the ball when it's in range and players gravitate towards him in the fear he may just get it. Add to that the fact he must be manned up at all times, cannot be allowed to roam free up forward as he can be devastating both in the air and off the ground. Not to mention that when he is on song in the ruck he can literally change the outcome of any game, against any team.

I remember being at the away game against the tigers last year, we were up by about four or five goals and in the third we lost momentum at the tigers came back. Mostly people remember Beau Waters mark or Darling's goal but what i remember most is when we had our backs to the wall and lost the lead, Naitanui went to another level in the ruck. Destroyed Maric for a good ten minute stretch from which if i remember correctly we kicked two goals directly from Naitanui tap downs placed to perfection. When he is playing like that he is the most important player in the comp.

Hands down.

That's saying a lot considering Buddy, Gazza, Pendles, Pavlich....etc

 

[Ian Dargie]

Great list and i have to agree with most of it, i do feel however that Gaff should be higher. I'm not trying to place unrealistic expectations on the kid, truth is he does that himself. Absolute freak.

Reckon he needs to become less exclusively outside to move up the pecking order.

Naitanui is a freak and truly deserves top spot. His second, third and even fourth efforts are astounding for a kid his size. Leads the competition in contested ball which shows you two things. He gravitates towards the ball when it's in range and players gravitate towards him in the fear he may just get it. Add to that the fact he must be manned up at all times, cannot be allowed to roam free up forward as he can be devastating both in the air and off the ground. Not to mention that when he is on song in the ruck he can literally change the outcome of any game, against any team.

I remember being at the away game against the tigers last year, we were up by about four or five goals and in the third we lost momentum at the tigers came back. Mostly people remember Beau Waters mark or Darling's goal but what i remember most is when we had our backs to the wall and lost the lead, Naitanui went to another level in the ruck. Destroyed Maric for a good ten minute stretch from which if i remember correctly we kicked two goals directly from Naitanui tap downs placed to perfection. When he is playing like that he is the most important player in the comp.

Hands down.

That's saying a lot considering Buddy, Gazza, Pendles, Pavlich....etc

Gone hard on NicNat.

 

[Shupe]

Gone hard on NicNat.

I often get hard over Nic Nat. I'm sure many others do, too.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Your list is pretty spot on. I'd only change the last three, I think Brown will play a few games and be important.

Barring injury, how many games does Brown play?

If we really resolve to shoehorn Brown into our back six, it might mean releasing Schofield to play elsewhere and having Brown, Glass and Mackenzie as our three defensive talls.

But on a somewhat related note, if we want to play a defensive forward, who would that be from the top 21 you listed? I'm not sure who it would be. I'm not disagreeing with the 21 by the way.

It depends on the balance of the rest of the side, particularly the midfield. Does Wellingham play as a defensive forward when not in the middle, effectively replacing McGinnity and offering a bit more flexibility?

The default was Nicoski in 2011 and McGinnity in 2012. These guys are both on the edge of the best 22, along with Adam Selwood. Probably only room for one or two unless McGinnity becomes a more full-time mid. I think that's where he ends up – as a hard-nosed tagger – but I'm not sure it will happen this year.

So to answer your question, I think McGinnity, Nicoski and Wellingham will all play that role at various stages. And we shouldn't discount Hill either. That defensive edge is part of his game – as it needs to be.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Nicnat in top 2????? He does some amazing things no doubt but he is not in our top 2 players importance wise and especially best wise in my opinion.

My top 10 players in the club who consistently perform week in week out.

Dean Cox
Darren Glass
Mark Lecras
Andrew Gaff
Jack Darling
Daniel Kerr (Can be shut down)
Scott Selwood
Shannon Hurn
Mat Priddis (Opposition don't care how many touches he gets)
Mat Rosa

Rosa over Shuey, Kennedy, Naitanui, Waters and Mackenzie?

 

[Ian Dargie]

- Glass - diminishing role has him outside top 5

Harsh.

 

[Marlin01]

Harsh.

Very. I felt foolish putting Glass so low, but then I feel those above him deserve to be there. I re-watched our 2012 finals series and Mackenzie really was outstanding, particularly against Collingwood, so I felt compelled to have Mackenzie above Glass.

I wasn't happy with my placement of Kennedy either, but I was struggling to place him higher. I daresay it's a result of his absence from the team and the first bag of goals he kicks will see me heralding him as vital to our premiership chances.

I amended my list so many times that I ended up going around in circles. I'm comfortable with my top 4, after that you could really throw a blanket over them.