Our current top 25 in order

[Shupe]

Yet you have Shuey well ahead.

How do you see Shuey v Selwood now? I think he's comfortably in front.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

What the hell is a 'hindsight post'? Is this the new one-liner people roll out when they want to duck realities that undermine their earlier view?

Seems like 'hindsight post' is nuff-nuff code for 'turns out you were right, Mr Dargie'?

I started this thread before the season so I don't know what hindsight has to do with it. It's the opposite of hindsight i.e. foresight. I'm just asking you to revisit your claim that Naitanui is over-rated and is behind Rosa, for example.

I challenged you on it at the time – again, nothing to do with hindsight.

To refresh your memory:


What do you have to say about that now?

Is your view still 'what it is'? Or is your view now the one I advised you was more accurate?

No Kennedy in your list either. What were you smoking in February?

I will tell you my view mate. natanui is essential to the eagles as we have a B grade midfield. he is a star no doubt in the modern version of our game. Without him it is clear our side is bottom 8 material.

At the time I thought football ability was the paramount importance but as it turns out it is atheleticism that is paramount these days. At the end of last season I thought footballer first, athlete second. As it turns out Natanui is critical to the eagles as we have such a poor midfield. Rosa as been interrupted as you know so it is a bad comparison.

So yes natanui before rosa.

Kennedy was coming off an injury and had done didly squat for us. Not that bad a call. rate him highly but you either play or your don't play.

Look right now, we keep dreaming Selwwod, Priddis, and shuey are a Grade players. they bully against the average sides yet get smashed by the good sides. No one says a thing after each of them has played 70+ games each.

Would it be fair to say Hutchings or Shepherd get 60-70 games each to replace these guys who simply are not doing it?
The match committee don't think so yet we keep getting smashed in the midfield against all the good sides?

 

[Shupe]

I will tell you my view mate. natanui is essential to the eagles as we have a B grade midfield. he is a star no doubt in the modern version of our game. Without him it is clear our side is bottom 8 material.

At the time I thought football ability was the paramount importance but as it turns out it is atheleticism that is paramount these days. At the end of last season I thought footballer first, athlete second. As it turns out Natanui is critical to the eagles as we have such a poor midfield. Rosa as been interrupted as you know so it is a bad comparison.

I think you are understating his football ability. His contested marking and ability in contested situations are amongst the best in the league.

 

[Ian Dargie]

I will tell you my view mate. natanui is essential to the eagles as we have a B grade midfield. he is a star no doubt in the modern version of our game. Without him it is clear our side is bottom 8 material.

At the time I thought football ability was the paramount importance but as it turns out it is atheleticism that is paramount these days. At the end of last season I thought footballer first, athlete second. As it turns out Natanui is critical to the eagles as we have such a poor midfield. Rosa as been interrupted as you know so it is a bad comparison.

So yes natanui before rosa.

So you have come to your senses and adopted my view?

That said, I still don't reckon you grasp why Naitanui is so good.

Go back and read that Champion Data blurb I showed you in February. Athleticism is part of it, sure, but there have been plenty of great athletes who didn't have Naitanui's influence.

It's not enough for people to just keep saying, 'oh, Naitanui is just an athlete', as though the other guys running around aren't serious athletes as well. He's having an influence because he can play contested football and has the discipline to do the one-percenters. It's not just the tricks.

Kennedy was coming off an injury and had done didly squat for us. Not that bad a call. rate him highly but you either play or your don't play.

Wouldn't say Kennedy had done diddly-squat. Topped our goal-kicking in 2011 and was always likely to be our No.1 key forward this year.

Look right now, we keep dreaming Selwwod, Priddis, and shuey are a Grade players. they bully against the average sides yet get smashed by the good sides. No one says a thing after each of them has played 70+ games each.

Would it be fair to say Hutchings or Shepherd get 60-70 games each to replace these guys who simply are not doing it?
The match committee don't think so yet we keep getting smashed in the midfield against all the good sides?

Not sure who this is directed at?

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I don't get it. Naitanui makes our midfield look better than it is and he's over rated? If anything he's clearance work, contested marking is under rated and he's got crap loads of improvement to come. He's been playing half lame FFS.

Don't disagree about our midfield although i'm not sure how you can say, X, Y, Z are all B grade players because we lack quality in A, B, C players. Which is what it's all about when it comes to team sports having the depth of quality across your best 22 and players that complement each other well.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

So you have come to your senses and adopted my view?

That said, I still don't reckon you grasp why Naitanui is so good.

Go back and read that Champion Data blurb I showed you in February. Athleticism is part of it, sure, but there have been plenty of great athletes who didn't have Naitanui's influence.

It's not enough for people to just keep saying, 'oh, Naitanui is just an athlete', as though the other guys running around aren't serious athletes as well. He's having an influence because he can play contested football and has the discipline to do the one-percenters. It's not just the tricks.

Wouldn't say Kennedy had done diddly-squat. Topped our goal-kicking in 2011 and was always likely to be our No.1 key forward this year.

Not sure who this is directed at?

Not directed at anyone really dargie, I am sick to death of hearing how good Selwood and Shuey could be. they are both 5 years in. you either are or you are not. I have said many times already why don't we give Hutchings and Shepherd 50-80 games in the midfield without being dropped and see where they are.
We get smashed in the midfield almost every game and yet the media and our supporters call for the 18-22 men to be dropped but never ever mention what the real problem is which is Priddis, Shuey, Selwood.
Maybe we have no one to replace them? But seriously put anyoe there because at the end of the day if they lose the midfield battle we are no worse off.
Our list is a great list which lacks one thing. A midfield. that is why we will and cannot win a flag with this list.

 

[Ian Dargie]

I am sick to death of hearing how good Selwood and Shuey could be. they are both 5 years in. you either are or you are not.

We get smashed in the midfield almost every game and yet the media and our supporters call for the 18-22 men to be dropped but never ever mention what the real problem is which is Priddis, Shuey, Selwood.

Maybe you should have a read through this thread.

Some felt our midfield was already good enough to win a flag.

 

[twce13]

Not directed at anyone really dargie, I am sick to death of hearing how good Selwood and Shuey could be. they are both 5 years in. you either are or you are not. I have said many times already why don't we give Hutchings and Shepherd 50-80 games in the midfield without being dropped and see where they are.
We get smashed in the midfield almost every game and yet the media and our supporters call for the 18-22 men to be dropped but never ever mention what the real problem is which is Priddis, Shuey, Selwood.

Disagree with Shuey, he doesn't get the credit he deserves. He has played 60 games, with interruptions through-out. So far this season he has regularly received the opposition's hardest tag and is still our most damaging midfielder with ball in hands. His inside game has improved a whole lot and I think there's still more to come from him. Shuey is a jet.

 

[Shupe]

Not directed at anyone really dargie, I am sick to death of hearing how good Selwood and Shuey could be. they are both 5 years in. you either are or you are not. I have said many times already why don't we give Hutchings and Shepherd 50-80 games in the midfield without being dropped and see where they are.

Why would you give lesser players who have shown half of the above listed midfielders such a great chance? Do you want to win games? Remember Masten? He wasn't given a full-time gig in the midfield until this season. He was forced to rotate through the HFF line and it has done wonders for his development. The same is being done with Sheppard and Hutchings has just been drafted with pick #60, there is no way he takes the spot of Shuey/Selwood.

It's almost tanking. We're going s**t, so let's remove our better players and replace them with lesser-likes. Hmm...

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Why would you give lesser players who have shown half of the above listed midfielders such a great chance? Do you want to win games? Remember Masten? He wasn't given a full-time gig in the midfield until this season. He was forced to rotate through the HFF line and it has done wonders for his development. The same is being done with Sheppard and Hutchings has just been drafted with pick #60, there is no way he takes the spot of Shuey/Selwood.

It's almost tanking. We're going s**t, so let's remove our better players and replace them with lesser-likes. Hmm...

I'm not sure Hutchings is far off them at all. Time will tell I guess if he is given the same chances.

 

[Shupe]

I'm not sure Hutchings is far off them at all. Time will tell I guess if he is given the same chances.

You think Hutchings is on a similar level to Shuey/Selwood?

 

[Spooky17]

You think Hutchings is on a similar level to Shuey/Selwood?

No, but we can hope?!?!?!

 

[Xsess]

Not directed at anyone really dargie, I am sick to death of hearing how good Selwood and Shuey could be. they are both 5 years in. you either are or you are not. I have said many times already why don't we give Hutchings and Shepherd 50-80 games in the midfield without being dropped and see where they are.
We get smashed in the midfield almost every game and yet the media and our supporters call for the 18-22 men to be dropped but never ever mention what the real problem is which is Priddis, Shuey, Selwood.
Maybe we have no one to replace them? But seriously put anyoe there because at the end of the day if they lose the midfield battle we are no worse off.
Our list is a great list which lacks one thing. A midfield. that is why we will and cannot win a flag with this list.

I have the poor early season performance of the midfield almost entirely down to injuries. Shuey and Selwood are good players but they suffered the "Kerr" effect. Remember when he was the only midfielder of note, post Judd/Cousins? It was easy for the opposition to shut him down, he was the only bloke worth shutting out. The resultant criticism of him by ignorent supporters was appalling, yet as soon as the support started to grow around him suddenly the guys a gun (again). This year Kerr, Rosa, Wellingham, Natanui, Embley have all missed long periods due to injury. Every week 3-4 forced changes to the side. Blokes like Selwood having to play unaccustomed roles due to breakdown of our structures, we had our rucks getting flogged because Sinclair wasn't up to it and Cox couldn't carry the entire load. We tried blokes like Cripps and he's not an AFL standard footballer.

What do you expect would happen? We are finally starting to see the return of these blokes, some stability and confidence and we have managed to put four straight together. I hope we can muddle wins in the next two then hit Hawthorn with a fit squad to go 4-8. We might then be in a position to test your "cant win a premiership" theory.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You think Hutchings is on a similar level to Shuey/Selwood?

I think Shuey is a potential A grader but Selwood is not. I think Hutchings if given the time and chances can be as good as Selwood yes.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I have the poor early season performance of the midfield almost entirely down to injuries. Shuey and Selwood are good players but they suffered the "Kerr" effect. Remember when he was the only midfielder of note, post Judd/Cousins? It was easy for the opposition to shut him down, he was the only bloke worth shutting out. The resultant criticism of him by ignorent supporters was appalling, yet as soon as the support started to grow around him suddenly the guys a gun (again). This year Kerr, Rosa, Wellingham, Natanui, Embley have all missed long periods due to injury. Every week 3-4 forced changes to the side. We are finally starting to see the return of these blokes, some stability and confidence and we have managed to put four straight together. I hope we can muddle wins in the next two then hit Hawthorn with a fit squad to go 4-8. We might then be in a position to test your "cant win a premiership" theory.

Yes and I hope you are correct. I just can't get passed that our midfield is behind Hawthorns, Sydneys, Geelong, Collingwood, Fremantle, Essendon, Richmond and maybe Adelaide.
Midfields win you flags. We have the best ruckman and combination in the league and we still get well beaten most weeks in the midfield at the clearances and Stoppages accept when we play the lower sides. Yes of course injuries play a part and not having Natanui and Wellingham does not help. But other sides get injuries also. Of course also if there is no one else to play there then there is not much that can be done until the next draft. Like you said though they may jump out of the box and do it? Time will tell.

 

[Scotland]

Disagree with Shuey, he doesn't get the credit he deserves. He has played 60 games, with interruptions through-out. So far this season he has regularly received the opposition's hardest tag and is still our most damaging midfielder with ball in hands. His inside game has improved a whole lot and I think there's still more to come from him. Shuey is a jet.

Shuey missed all of his first year and played 6 games in his second. Slow start, but he hasn't missed a game since through injury. 55 games from 58 with three missed (via suspension) is a pretty good run at things. I think he's a good young player, but it's more a case of him being one of our best in comparison to what we have than a genuine star in AFL terms.

 

[galen]

Where is this replacement blue chip midfield coming from that you are pointing out we are lacking?

You mention Hutchings and Sheppard, and highlight that Hutchings could become as good as Selwood.

Our midfield is undoubtedly the weakest link in our team.. but it's not the sort of thing you fix in one season. What we did over the off season in bringing in more class with Wellingham is essentially all we could do with what we had to trade+draft. Did you really think that Stevens and Swift were going to be the answer?

It seems the only viable plan is the plan that is actually being implemented.... gradually trade for more class (Wellers), gradually grow develop the young kids with class (Shepp), while buying time with WAFL players (Hutchings/Dalziell) to eventually phase out the least performing mids. All the while we still manage to win games because other areas of our squad are very strong.

It's not some elaborate misconception that we as supporters and certainly the club is trying to fool ourselves into thinking our midfield is so good it can't be improved. I think you, GWS, are arguing against a shadow.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

The funny thing is while i agree with GWS that our midfield isn't good enough i fail to see at all how Shuey and S.Selwood are the principle problems. I suggest it's the inability on his behalf to evaluate players. They aren't complete players but do have some critical areas of strength that means they would transfer into other teams well. At the moment in 2013 those two in particular have stood up even more in light of our teams poor performances.

You can trade peripherals like Hill but you can't in the majority of your midfield. But i get it'll take the rest of the year for this premiership window to close for our supporter base.

We need high quality midfielders and we'll get them where we got the others, in the first two rounds of the draft.

 

[Shupe]

I think Shuey is a potential A grader but Selwood is not. I think Hutchings if given the time and chances can be as good as Selwood yes.

I agree with your views on Shuey and Selwood. I said pre-season that Selwood isn't as good as his B&F suggests, but Shuey will be A-grade.

In all of Hutchings two games, what has made you think he will be of Selwood's quality? I'm sorry, but it isn't possible to make those judgements yet.

Ideally, if we can get Selwood to play the Priddis role and get another quality mid to replace Selwood, we would go a long way to rectifying our problems.

 

[WCEbrody]

Yes and I hope you are correct. I just can't get passed that our midfield is behind Hawthorns, Sydneys, Geelong, Collingwood, Fremantle, Essendon, Richmond and maybe Adelaide.
Midfields win you flags. We have the best ruckman and combination in the league and we still get well beaten most weeks in the midfield at the clearances and Stoppages accept when we play the lower sides. Yes of course injuries play a part and not having Natanui and Wellingham does not help. But other sides get injuries also. Of course also if there is no one else to play there then there is not much that can be done until the next draft. Like you said though they may jump out of the box and do it? Time will tell.

We beat Fremantle in contested possesions and clearances, Hawthorn in clearances(50-50 split in centre clearances)..both without NicNat and Kerr. The problem isn't so much in the clearances as it was the outside spread/polish in the first few rounds, and if you take into account Shuey was being forced to play 100% inside whilst being tagged,Rosa and Wellingham not being in the side and Gaff being out of form you can see why we weren't doing too flash.

The only problem i have with our midfield is the lack flexibility with our inside midfielders in Kerr and Priddis, neither are able to/have been played up forward which is something they're going to have to work on.

 

[Xsess]

Yes and I hope you are correct. I just can't get passed that our midfield is behind Hawthorns, Sydneys, Geelong, Collingwood, Fremantle, Essendon, Richmond and maybe Adelaide.
Midfields win you flags. We have the best ruckman and combination in the league and we still get well beaten most weeks in the midfield at the clearances and Stoppages accept when we play the lower sides. Yes of course injuries play a part and not having Natanui and Wellingham does not help. But other sides get injuries also. Of course also if there is no one else to play there then there is not much that can be done until the next draft. Like you said though they may jump out of the box and do it? Time will tell.

I dont reckon you can really isolate an area and say "thats the problem". Footy is a team game. Look at our backline. Schofield, Selwood and Hurn had terrible starts to the year, Waters and McKenzie has been in and out due to injuries. We have been spanked back there at times with soft goals and a total lack of rebound. That impacts the entire team - the ball gets stagnated in the back thrid of the field and the opposition just pepper away, our forwards get limited supply (and poor supply) and our midfields end up having to do twice as much work to generate fast ball movement.

Since then things have started turning around. McKenzie has locked the oppositions best forward meaning Glass has evolved into a Mr Fixit, small/tall rebounder. Hurn's form has turned around and suddenly blokes like Gaff are in the game recieving footy in space (where he belongs). Brown has become a handy back up tall. Sheppard has started bobbing up and Brennan has replaced Selwood as a small lock down defender. Suddenly we look solid and are transitioning better out of defence with our run and carry. Last year we had massive problems in our forward line in it had a compounding effect on the team as well. Before we all jump to conclusions lets just see how this team solidifies over the next few weeks. Woosh said it himself. Lets see what happens when we get a consistent team on the park thats within a position or three of our "best" team. I reckon you will find our midfield is better than you think.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Our back line had a fine start to the season, quick transitions that kill you aren't the sole responsibility of the back line and if your midfield doesn't move god help your defense finding a target.

We haven't been playing the best of sides as of late. Irrespective of our relative improvement the horse has bolted on this season and we won't make it back. Top six is improbable. Top four near impossible.

 

[ioppolo]

Butler-Glass-Schofield
Hurn-MacKenzie-Waters
Rosa-Priddis-Gaff
Shuey-Kennedy-Masten
LeCras-Darling-Hill
Cox-Kerr-S. Selwood
Wellingham-Sheppard-Brennan-(McGinnity)

Brown, Nicoski, A. Selwood

 

[Big Cox 88]

My main man Masto (see what I did there), has been our best so far this year, consistent, uses the ball well and has some pace. He does lack a bit of size and strength but I feel Shuey, Scooter and Co. get all the attention and Masto is massively underrated. He has a huge impact in our matches

 

[twce13]

My main man Masto (see what I did there), has been our best so far this year, consistent, uses the ball well and has some pace. He does lack a bit of size and strength but I feel Shuey, Scooter and Co. get all the attention and Masto is massively underrated. He has a huge impact in our matches

While a very good link up player he's not nearly as damaging as shuey. I don't think masto is far from his roof and I am quite content if he improves just a little more as he is a very good player and if we can boost our midfield elsewhere both him and Scott selwood will compliment it nicely.

I have lots of time for Shep also, if he breaks out he will be Another good player rotating through the middle with some geniuine line breaking tools.

Scotland
Shuey isn't a genuine star yet, but I am backing him to become one.

Totally agree with eh that we need to look at the draft, I don't wanna waste picks on trading players in and getting a Harry Taylor (I'd love Lewis jetta but I am really keen on going to the draft with our picks in tact).

Just on a side note We're also lacking damage when we get it out to space.