Analysis Our forward line - KPF depth?

[eth-dog]

Disagree completely. Other than the first half of the West Coast game our delivery has been because of the forward line. The half forwards aren't working hard enough to create space behind them, and as such it creates a congested forward line.

Most of the time our forwards don't get on their bike enough; with the exception of Ambrose, and just call for it on their heads.

 

[BrunoV]

Disagree completely. Other than the first half of the West Coast game our delivery has been because of the forward line. The half forwards aren't working hard enough to create space behind them, and as such it creates a congested forward line.

Most of the time our forwards don't get on their bike enough; with the exception of Ambrose, and just call for it on their heads.

They wait for the ball to get closer. You seem them almost circling while they wait. I suppose the problem is that you get caught in no-mans land because while you're waiting you can't double back into the path of the guy behind you.

The players with the ball do not seem to look up the field the first reaction is always to give it to someone nearby.

It's is like we divide the ground into zones and the ball is moved to people from zone to zone with little fluidity. I think a lot of it gets back to wanting to develop a lower impact style of play. It is clear that the players don't get it yet and a lot of it has to do with the decision made at half back.

There has been some sfellowing at the comments Bomber made about being right to play at this time of year but it has to be said that our players have not covered the ground this well this late in a season for a very long time.

 

[eth-dog]

And when they do actually lead it's those useless 5 metre ones that provide nothing.

Our forwards need to learn how to lead to create space. You know what a long lead that doesn't attract the ball does? Creates space behind to either double back into or for another forward to lead into.

 

[84859300]

Our forwards need to learn how to lead to create space.

I have to disagree here - because I've seen countless times where leads like this are ignored...only then to have the up and under kick as the only option left.

I seriously think that even though Joe leads out and creates separation, that he deliberately is ignored due to his conversion rate being so hit and miss from set shots. But when he gets the same space on the wing, he's hit up time after time...clunking marks with ease. Again, with Jake grabbing marks from 4 back, he makes some of those crap kicks in look much better than they actually are.

It could be that we lost out mojo in kicking the ball into the F50 when we didn't have targets, other than Hurley one out, and having to kick to advantage of smaller players like Davey, Jetta and co. You only have to look at the kicks offered to Colyer when he's forward. The guy is the quickest in the space, by a country mile, and they continue to kick to him where he has to stop and jump to try and take the mark...where the space a further 5 metres in front would allow for the easiest of chest marks. The only guy that seems to get this kind of delivery is Winders, as he barrels out at full tilt and has the speed to get the break on his opponent - where the only problem is that he gets most of the ball delivered like that when he's 45+ out when he needs to be 40 or less.

For a team with much potential, we still play some dumb football.

 

[eth-dog]

I have to disagree here - because I've seen countless times where leads like this are ignored...only then to have the up and under kick as the only option left.

I seriously think that even though Joe leads out and creates separation, that he deliberately is ignored due to his conversion rate being so hit and miss from set shots. But when he gets the same space on the wing, he's hit up time after time...clunking marks with ease. Again, with Jake grabbing marks from 4 back, he makes some of those crap kicks in look much better than they actually are.

It could be that we lost out mojo in kicking the ball into the F50 when we didn't have targets, other than Hurley one out, and having to kick to advantage of smaller players like Davey, Jetta and co. You only have to look at the kicks offered to Colyer when he's forward. The guy is the quickest in the space, by a country mile, and they continue to kick to him where he has to stop and jump to try and take the mark...where the space a further 5 metres in front would allow for the easiest of chest marks. The only guy that seems to get this kind of delivery is Winders, as he barrels out at full tilt and has the speed to get the break on his opponent - where the only problem is that he gets most of the ball delivered like that when he's 45+ out when he needs to be 40 or less.

For a team with much potential, we still play some dumb football.

Really? Because I rarely see it happen at either level. The only bloke who's leads are 15 meters or longer more than 50% of the time is Ambrose.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

If it was that simple, Ethan, the coaches would have noticed too. s**t, I reckon one or two of the mids might have had a quiet word with the forwards as well.

 

[84859300]

Really? Because I rarely see it happen at either level. The only bloke who's leads are 15 meters or longer more than 50% of the time is Ambrose.

Agree with Ambrose - his problem is that he is endurance personified, with some leads working up to 40m, but never quite getting far enough away from his opponent to be there to take a mark one out. The ball is always seems to be a 50/50 contest when he goes for a mark.

 

[BrunoV]

Really? Because I rarely see it happen at either level. The only bloke who's leads are 15 meters or longer more than 50% of the time is Ambrose.

And he is hardly honored.

 

[Keystone agony]

We dont see our big guys get up the field and try get out the back or behind their opponent running into 50 and hooking around towards the ball carrier inside 50 or getting over the top towards goal having their opponent non goal side.

These are the easier goals to get that the Buddy, Roughead, N.Riewoldt types get whereas i guys seem to want to make it really hard for themselves to come away with a bag 4 and need to require taking 6 pack marks inside 50.

 

[eth-dog]

Agree with Ambrose - his problem is that he is endurance personified, with some leads working up to 40m, but never quite getting far enough away from his opponent to be there to take a mark one out. The ball is always seems to be a 50/50 contest when he goes for a mark.

Yep, he's got the slow twitch fibres in the legs which allow for the endurance but needs to work on the explosion to allow seperation from his man

And he is hardly honored.

This too.

We dont see our big guys get up the field and try get out the back or behind their opponent running into 50 and hooking around towards the ball carrier inside 50 or getting over the top towards goal having their opponent non goal side.

These are the easier goals to get that the Buddy, Roughead, N.Riewoldt types get whereas i guys seem to want to make it really hard for themselves to come away with a bag 4 and need to require taking 6 pack marks inside 50.

Another very good point. It may also be fitness, they don't have the tank to do this (although Ambrose has shown it before, especially in the Hawthorn game)

 

[BrunoV]

We dont see our big guys get up the field and try get out the back or behind their opponent running into 50 and hooking around towards the ball carrier inside 50 or getting over the top towards goal having their opponent non goal side.

These are the easier goals to get that the Buddy, Roughead, N.Riewoldt types get whereas i guys seem to want to make it really hard for themselves to come away with a bag 4 and need to require taking 6 pack marks inside 50.

As eth-dog has hinted at, it is really only Ambrose that is suited to it.

Daniher is exactly what you would expect of a 201-203cm 20 year old fitness wise.

Carlisle is not un-athletic but that sort of running is not his game.


If Ambrose kicks on and Daniher develops it should look different next year.

 

[Keystone agony]

Daniher has shown on small occasions very capable. I think we still forget this has really been his first year (Really).

 

[Darealrath]

If Ambrose kicks on and Daniher develops it should look different next year.

The Ambrose type is the key in trying to engineer as many one on ones as possible for Carlisle and Daniher. Still not sure if he is the guy, but considering where he's come from he's had a good first year.

Was thinking where Bellchambers fits in today. Came to the conclusion that the Carlisle-Hurley swap is not ideal for him as we look way too slow with Bellchambers and Carlisle in the F50. Hurley's agility and ground level ability can make it work though. I think Hird will have Tom in his best 22 next year so hopefully they make it work.

 

[eth-dog]

Bellchambers will only spend half his time there anyway. Paddy will rotate forward as well

 

[srobbo]

We dont see our big guys get up the field and try get out the back or behind their opponent running into 50 and hooking around towards the ball carrier inside 50 or getting over the top towards goal having their opponent non goal side.

These are the easier goals to get that the Buddy, Roughead, N.Riewoldt types get whereas i guys seem to want to make it really hard for themselves to come away with a bag 4 and need to require taking 6 pack marks inside 50.

That's the craft our blokes need to learn, esp Jakey boy. Just need to get smarter utilising space, leading into the fat side of the ground when the opportunity presents so the ball carrier is compelled to kick to it.

 

[Doss]

Daniher has shown on small occasions very capable. I think we still forget this has really been his first year (Really).

And that he has made enormous strides even from last year. If that rate of improvement continues...

 

[BrunoV]

The Ambrose type is the key in trying to engineer as many one on ones as possible for Carlisle and Daniher. Still not sure if he is the guy, but considering where he's come from he's had a good first year.

Was thinking where Bellchambers fits in today. Came to the conclusion that the Carlisle-Hurley swap is not ideal for him as we look way too slow with Bellchambers and Carlisle in the F50. Hurley's agility and ground level ability can make it work though. I think Hird will have Tom in his best 22 next year so hopefully they make it work.

I have to say that I don't really like the look of Carlisle and Bellchambers in the one forward line on paper but then it has never been given a chance.

Bellchambers is best suited to playing in that arc 20 to 30 from goal which puts him in Carlisle's space. I suppose we could play Carlisle higher up the ground but it seems to fly in the face of the 50 - 60 goals he will almost certainly kick next year if he carrys his for from the second half of this year into next.

If Bellchambers is good enough to develop into a genuine number 1 ruck I would have no hesitation playing Ryder predominately forward. Without having seen everyone fit and together and assuming that we will keep Carlisle forward I think the long term viability of Bellchamber depends on his ability to be seen as the club's number 1 ruck (which is not the same as saying that he would need to be better than Ryder as a ruckman).

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Was thinking where Bellchambers fits in today. Came to the conclusion that the Carlisle-Hurley swap is not ideal for him as we look way too slow with Bellchambers and Carlisle in the F50. Hurley's agility and ground level ability can make it work though. I think Hird will have Tom in his best 22 next year so hopefully they make it work.

If the stories about the sub being removed are true, it'll be well and truly possible to play two ruckmen.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

Just quietly, at the beginning of 2017 our forward line could be:

FF: Daniher - Langford - Long
HF: Z.Merrett - Carlisle - Laverde

Marking power, speed, tackle pressure, skill and a heap of x-factor. That's when we become a serious football side.

Also, there are four blokes who can rotate into the middle, giving us great depth. Good times ahead!

 

[Whispering_Jack]

Just quietly, at the beginning of 2017 our forward line could be:

FF: Daniher - Langford - Long
HF: Z.Merrett - Carlisle - Laverde

Marking power, speed, tackle pressure, skill and a heap of x-factor. That's when we become a serious football side.

Also, there are four blokes who can rotate into the middle, giving us great depth. Good times ahead!

And an average age of about 12

 

[Rancid Trogs]

And an average age of about 12

Langford, Laverde and Long will be 20, Zerrett 21, Daniher 22 and Carlisle 24. Gives us a long spell with a settled forward line.

Carlisle and Daniher are about to boom. The others will develop quicker being smells. Get excited!

 

[Whispering_Jack]

Langford, Laverde and Long will be 20, Zerrett 21, Daniher 22 and Carlisle 24. Gives us a long spell with a settled forward line.

Carlisle and Daniher are about to boom. The others will develop quicker being smells. Get excited!

No doubt. Just saying that it will be young, but that's not a bad thing!

 

[MNC Bomber]

Langford, Laverde and Long will be 20, Zerrett 21, Daniher 22 and Carlisle 24. Gives us a long spell with a settled forward line.

Carlisle and Daniher are about to boom. The others will develop quicker being smells. Get excited!

oh no...quickly developing smells...

 

[MightyDons4]

Just quietly, at the beginning of 2017 our forward line could be:

FF: Daniher - Langford - Long
HF: Z.Merrett - Carlisle - Laverde

Marking power, speed, tackle pressure, skill and a heap of x-factor. That's when we become a serious football side.

Also, there are four blokes who can rotate into the middle, giving us great depth. Good times ahead!

Orazio will see you now...

 

[BrunoV]

Just quietly, at the beginning of 2017 our forward line could be:

FF: Daniher - Langford - Long
HF: Z.Merrett - Carlisle - Laverde

Marking power, speed, tackle pressure, skill and a heap of x-factor. That's when we become a serious football side.

Also, there are four blokes who can rotate into the middle, giving us great depth. Good times ahead!

There is no future forward line in which Daniher is not the king dick around which the forward line is structured.