Traded Rhys Stanley

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An attack of Riewoldt, Spencer, Stanley and Lee has some appeal to it.
Reminds me a little of the Swans - Tippet, Buddy,Reid, Goodes. Mobile and tall.
Maybe not quite in the same class :$ but still looks alright to me.
 
Really enjoyed the OP, especially the part where you had it spelt out for those not paying attention, where I was not!

I think Stanley was top few for contested marks. So his comparative stats might be even better. As long as he gets his confidence up, I think we'd be mad to get rid of him. Maybe one day somebody will push him out of the team, and that will be a great problem to have.
 
gringo2011 said:
I think it purely that after the GF sprint we all pencilled him in as a cross between usain Bolt and Buddy. It has been a normal slow build up like most talls but we got way ahead of ourselves and now blame him. I think even if he doesn't progress further now he justifies a spot but with further progression could be a star in a few more years.
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I think that even if he doesn't progress much further, if he's there each week the team will play to his strengths and make him seem better.
 

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for the amount of times he was tagetted inside 50 i would think he was pretty effiecent post his return to the team.

would not trade unless
i) he wanted to go
ii) we get an offer we cant refuse

would not trade him for a marginal pick or else we should of done it 3 years ago
 
The stats are good work, and they back up the reality that he is a contributing player. Considering we're in full rebuild, you don't throw a conributing young player out the door.

But the 'what do you see' test that Rhys regularly fails, is that he will take a few marks and kick a few goals... then go awol the week later. Then the week after that he'll spend half the day drawing defenders towards a teammate's area creating a pack contest that didn't need to be.
He also drops marks he should take. The problem that people have with Rhys is that he should actually be better - those stats ought to be about 2 pg heavier on marks (after all, he's freaky tall and freaky fast and we have limited targets, how is he not getting loads of the footy?) and ideally a couple on hitouts too.

So most supporters feel down on him, as you regularly see him continue to make mistakes, or just generally have bad games. If he cut them out, he would skip right past being good, into being serious AA breakout. Thats the wrap with guys who have seriously high ceilings - if you ever get them to stop underachieving they will jump straight to being awesome.
 
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ike2112 said:
The stats are good work, and they back up the reality that he is a contributing player. Considering we're in full rebuild, you don't throw a conributing young player out the door.

But the 'what do you see' test that Rhys regularly fails, is that he will take a few marks and kick a few goals... then go awol the week later. Then the week after that he'll spend half the day drawing defenders towards a teammate's area creating a pack contest that didn't need to be.
He also drops marks he should take. The problem that people have with Rhys is that he should actually be better - those stats ought to be about 2 pg heavier on marks (after all, he's freaky tall and freaky fast and we have limited targets, how is he not getting loads of the footy?) and ideally a couple on hitouts too.

So most supporters feel down on him, as you regularly see him continue to make mistakes, or just generally have bad games. If he cut them out, he would skip right past being good, into being serious AA breakout. Thats the wrap with guys who have seriously high ceilings - if you ever get them to stop underachieving they will jump straight to being awesome.
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I agree that Rhys up side is huge and think that the main problem with him reaching those standards is Rhys himself. He just does not think he is that good and plays like it sometimes. He would seem to be one of those people who lacks confidence in himself and will achieve high standard on a day when things start well but can easily go missing. It is really up to Richo to bring it out in him,.
 
Sainttony said:
I



I agree that Rhys up side is huge and think that the main problem with him reaching those standards is Rhys himself. He just does not think he is that good and plays like it sometimes. He would seem to be one of those people who lacks confidence in himself and will achieve high standard on a day when things start well but can easily go missing. It is really up to Richo to bring it out in him,.
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I said at the start of the season after the first nab cup games he is not up to it. I was wrong and the stats emphasize it as well.

If Rhys played for Hawthorn a team that could kick it to him, he would be invalauble and be rated well like Gunston. A GOF who is special in a great team. I think the frustration we all feel is that when that rare attacking opportunity comes along from the mids he sometimes drops the mark on a lead in front and relatively pressure free and we all just go off at him. How often we forget about the quantity of balls that are kicked at his feet over his head or wide of the lead. As our mids improve (will happen as they mature) the disposals will get better and hence Rhys' numbers will get only better.

Then we will all say why did we ever consider a trade, as he is a champion!!

I thought Port Ade pick 16 for Rhys was a win win, now I am recanting that view. Like a fine wine he just needs time. Lets hope that 2015 is a good vintage for Rhys.
 
Sainttony said:
I



I agree that Rhys up side is huge and think that the main problem with him reaching those standards is Rhys himself. He just does not think he is that good and plays like it sometimes. He would seem to be one of those people who lacks confidence in himself and will achieve high standard on a day when things start well but can easily go missing. It is really up to Richo to bring it out in him,.
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I would agree with this until right before he got dropped. Just didn't seem to believe in himself. That Freo game changed everything, though, I think. He wasn't always kicking goals in the following matches (though did kick quite a few) but his effort was there in every one of those games and he often impacted for the better. The Sydney game was the best example of this. We are being slaughtered and the ball lived in Sydney's half for quite a while. There was a moment where the ball landed on the fifty and no one had immediately grabbed the ball yet. Rhys, without any hesitation at all, and as calmly as you like ran through picked it up, strode into fifty and kicked a bomb.

It was that moment I recognized the difference. Last year he would have waited outside the pack for a midfielder to get a handball and then he may have jogged into the forward half. He took the game on in that moment and that takes confidence. He didn't even really celebrate afterwards, he just knew it had to be done.

The other goal from him in that game was the banana from 45 out which came after the commentators had said Buddy was the only one that could do that.

I really think we are at the point for Rhys. I know we have said it in the past but I'm expecting a pretty big year for him. Another preaseason under Richo will have him applying more pressure, and I think he applies quite a lot for big man and he will hopefully carry over that confidence.

He just hit 50 games so his belief should really just be starting now. That's the magic number that I think provides a placebo effect.
 
IMO Rhys has had long enough to prove himself and hasn't been able to do it yet, has been on the list since the 2008 draft - pick 47 is 24 shortly. I think he will tease us with 4-5 good games a year if we are lucky and in 2 - 3 years time people will still be saying Rhys has lots of up side, if we can get high 1st round or early 2nd round for him jump at it. Or swap for Cam O' Shea
 
Mowman said:
IMO Rhys has had long enough to prove himself and hasn't been able to do it yet, has been on the list since the 2008 draft - pick 47 is 24 shortly. I think he will tease us with 4-5 good games a year if we are lucky and in 2 - 3 years time people will still be saying Rhys has lots of up side, if we can get high 1st round or early 2nd round for him jump at it. Or swap for Cam O' Shea
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So has Tyrone VIckery and Jackson Trengrove.
Hampson has been around since 2006. Majak Daw anyone.
These sort of players don't grow on trees.
They are all s**t, until they arent.
Then they are worth their weight in gold.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
So has Tyrone VIckery and Jackson Trengrove.
Hampson has been around since 2006. Majak Daw anyone.
These sort of players don't grow on trees.
They are all s**t, until they arent.
Then they are worth their weight in gold.
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Yep and wouldn't have any of them on our list next year either
 
Mowman said:
IMO Rhys has had long enough to prove himself and hasn't been able to do it yet, has been on the list since the 2008 draft - pick 47 is 24 shortly. I think he will tease us with 4-5 good games a year if we are lucky and in 2 - 3 years time people will still be saying Rhys has lots of up side, if we can get high 1st round or early 2nd round for him jump at it. Or swap for Cam O' Shea
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and who will play 19 games as second ruck/forward if Stanley goes
 

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Rucks - Longer, Hickey & Pierce
Tall Forwards- Roo, White, Lee, Bruce, Membrey ? maybe Mc Catin, Mc Kenzie
If we can improve our list by trading Stanley then we should do it, would much rather keep Steven IMO. We finished 18th with 4 wins there is not to many players on our list who are not tradable
 
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Great op.
Casboult looks amazing because he plays next to no-one.
The main target for a team that had more i50s than us this year.
Stanley playing at that same level (higher) next to nick looks like a bum!
Change teams it would be the other way round.

Ive been a supporter of stanley, hes become a whipping boy in raphs absence.
He started to become a solid player before watters sent him oop to the backline.
Had a good but inconsistent year. His first full season up forward.
 
Mowman said:
Rucks - Longer, Hickey & Pierce
Tall Forwards- Roo, White, Lee, Bruce, Membrey ? maybe Mc Catin, Mc Kenzie
If we can improve our list by trading Stanley then we should do it, would much rather keep Steven IMO. We finished 18th with 4 wins there is not to many players on our list who are not tradable
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Hey I'd trade Roo for the right deal but as far as Stanley is concerned its such a hard position to refill it would just have to be a mega deal to tempt me.
 
Baldur said:
Levi looks better because he is not playing with Saint Nick. It is hard for people to notice your shine when playing beside a class O hypergiant star like Nick.
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Kudos to your astronomical knowledge
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Oh so the team will be stronger if you simply delist everyone who isn't a triple A grader. :rolleyes: Sounds easy I wonder why all the teams don't do it.
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Not what I said at all and you know that
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Oh so the team will be stronger if you simply delist everyone who isn't a triple A grader. :rolleyes: Sounds easy I wonder why all the teams don't do it.
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Believe I Said - If we can improve our list by trading Stanley then we should do it, Please excuse me for not having the same opinion as you:rolleyes:
 
Mowman said:
Believe I Said - If we can improve our list by trading Stanley then we should do it, Please excuse me for not having the same opinion as you:rolleyes:
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OK so we swap him for Cam O Shea.
How do we then get the elusive rucking forward that every team has wanted since the interchange rules changed?
That was my point when I mentioned Vickery and co.
Those sorts of players are hard to come by.
 
Saint Luke said:
Disclaimer: I fully understand that stats don't tell the whole story and that numbers can be deceivingly low or high compared to actual impact. It's really the only solid metric we have, though, so I will use it for the moment.

I was browsing afl.com.au recently and had noticed in an article that they described Levi Casboult as having a breakout season this year. I can't find that specific article, but I have found two more.

Example A: (this is Google's cached version of the page which at the moment doesn't exist)
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eek:Sd1DruLrYMJ:m.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-22/on-the-rise-levi-casboult &cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

"Season 2014 has been a breakout one for Carlton’s Levi Casboult."

Example B: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-10/rowe-lines-up-new-deal

"The club is also negotiating a new deal for Casboult, who falls out of contract at the end of the season and has enjoyed a breakout year."

This got me thinking, what exactly does a breakout year for Levi look like?

Levi Casboult
Games Played: 19
Goals: 15
Avg Disp: 10.5
Avg Marks: 5.7
Avg Tackles: 2.3
Avg Hitouts: 6.9
Inside 50's: 1

This lead me to draw the obvious comparison to our Rhys, so I checked out his numbers.

Rhy Stanley
Games Played: 19
Goals: 18
Avg Disp: 11.2
Avg Marks: 6.4
Avg Tackles: 2.0
Avg Hitouts: 7.8
Inside 50's: 2.4

Bettery in every single category except for tackles, of which he has a .3 deficiency. Are we missing something here? Levi has a breakout year and Rhys has a better one? Well, I thought, Rhys has been developing since 2009 (with a year in defense, though, of course) and Levi since 2010. Maybe it is the timing that says Levi did so much better than Rhys. To confirm/dispel this I checked out the two most other obvious examples I could think of as Ruck/Fwd roles in David Hale and Zac Clarke.


David Hale
Games Played: 19
Goals: 19
Avg Disp: 10.3
Avg Marks: 3.5
Avg Tackles: 2.4
Avg Hitouts: 16.7
Inside 50's: 1.3

For those not paying attention, Rhys kicked about the same amount of goals, averaged more disposals, nearly three times as many marks, about as many tackles, and nearly double inside 50's of the reigning premier's ruck/fwd. Obvious disparity in this comparison are hitouts, although I always feel Rhys has massive impact in the ruck in short stints. Longer has been good enough to slog it out for 95% of the game. Rhys has beaten a number of highly rated rucks, though, including Natinui.

Zac Clarke
Games Played: 21
Goals: 12
Avg Disp: 12.3
Avg Marks: 4.4
Avg Tackles: 2.7
Avg Hitouts: 12
Inside 50's: 1.5

Alright, so Stanley is way ahead on goals, barely behind on disposals, averages 2 more marks, is again on pace with tackles, and averages an extra i50 per game than Clarkey. Outnumbered in hitouts, though, by a small amount.

I have seen the threads here in the past, and I know this is previously discussed territory, but what does it take for us to recognize that Rhys isn't far behind the mark, if at all? I have been surprised to see many say they would like to trade him. He is finally becoming a valuable player, why now?

So what do we think? Could this year of seeming underachievement actually have been successful? Am I completely wrong? Should we be toasting or delisting Mr. Knives?
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I do think part of it is because levi has done basically nothing till this year, but i think played all 22 games with a few standout performances with his contested marking and kicking 4 goals twice. He trailed off at end of yeat and still has plenty to work on but its promising.

Whereas stanley first showed glimpses years ago but still hasnt come on.

Also, levi did manage to relatively stay in games and contribute throughout, whereas maybe stanley goes missing and ice cold for long periods and sometimes looks lost. I must admit im only basing this on limited st kilda games iv watched
 
Farktherest said:
I do think part of it is because levi has done basically nothing till this year, but i think played all 22 games with a few standout performances with his contested marking and kicking 4 goals twice. He trailed off at end of yeat and still has plenty to work on but its promising.

Whereas stanley first showed glimpses years ago but still hasnt come on.

Also, levi did manage to relatively stay in games and contribute throughout, whereas maybe stanley goes missing and ice cold for long periods and sometimes looks lost. I must admit im only basing this on limited st kilda games iv watched
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I'd disagree with your assessment of Stanley there. He had a much more consistent year this year than in the past - it was his first real full year up forward after previous years being interrupted by injury and last year being played in defense. He managed to kick goals in 11 of his 19 games with 6 games of multiple goals. This was in a team that was the 2nd lowest scoring in the league and was incredibly Riewoldt conscious (something like 50% of our total scoring was done by or assisted by Roo). He also provided a strong option around the ground and was very good in 1v1 contests.

He did have off games and some that he didn't appear to show up for, but he finished the end of the year very strongly and seems to have had a noticeable boost in confidence (something that seemed to be lacking in him). He also isn't a natural footballer so he is still improving and learning things there but he didn't look out of place too often.

I haven't seen enough of Casboult to make any real comparison between the two but Rhys is a year younger than Levi and in big men that seems to count for a lot.

It seems that both teams should be happy with each of their players development, and I think the OP was more using the stats of opposition ruck/fwds to show just how much Rhys had improved as some Saints fans treat him as a bit of a whipping boy.
 
I admit I wasn't always a fan of Rhys. But I will say I'd be dispointed if he were traded.

He's been a gradual improvement over his career, but it never turned significantly. He's been gradually improving since he began, and obviously this year was his best. Until he stops improving or goes backwards I don't see any reason to trade.

Most people seem to be waiting for a "break out" year where he all of a sudden dominates the game kicks 100 wins the coleman and becomes the next captain. Calm down. To be honest I'm happy the way he's going.
 
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