Perspective about the team and supporters

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Lukey D

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Apr 9, 2010
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So last night being an interstate game I watched the game at home. I rarely do this and therefore, am rarely apart of the game day threads during the game which I was looking forward too for something different. By the time I get home from games, there's far too many posts in the autopsy thread to go through however being home I was able to read it from the beginning last night.

The reason I'm starting this thread is because I am bewildered at the way posters on here sling s**t at each other when I truly believe most of us are on the same page!

I am definitely not saying everyone needs to be in agreeance with each other and there can only be happiness and roses around here; hell no! However I think it's absolutely crap to read what took place last night.

At the present, here is a list that I think all of us agree on:

  • We are playing ordinary, patchy, slow footy.
  • It has only taken us the 2nd half of games to realise that our best footy happens when we run.
  • The players are extremely mentally fragile due to the past.
  • The positional experiments haven't been a success.
  • We all cannot wait to have Maric, Deledio and Rance back in the team.
Now, this is what baffles me most; We ALL understand exactly why players such as Pettard, Thomas, Hampson, Grigg, Houli, Maric were selected. To plug holes in our list. However a s**t fight always seems to arise when they are selected.

Honestly, the way some of you get so ancy about Petterd etc is beyond belief. Think about it, no one has said things such as "OMG we need Petterd in the team because he's going to take us to the promised land" or anything like that. Most of just understand that right now when we are trying to keep our season alive, Petterd impacts games greater than a youngster would. it's up to the youngsters to push him out. I'll explain why this hasn't happened yet

This week, the VFL boys has a tiny 4 day turnaround. I play local footy and I'm not feeling fully fit again until the Wednesday generally, that's 4 days after our game. These guys play a much toughers, higher intensity game. How on Earth could've McDonough or Foley played last night?

All week I read about youngsters coming in to replace guys such as Grigg, Newman, Edwards, Vickery etc.

Grigg is very frustrating however in the 2s, O'Hanlon who is playing Grigg's spot had a great game against Coburg but only had 8 possessions the week before that against Footscray.

McDonough is stiff only due to the 4 day turnaround but completely understandable as to why he didn't play.

Elton had a solid game against Footscray but was barely sighted against Coburg. Same with McBean whose had a very slow start to the year.

McIntosh is averaging 22 touches so far this year in the opening 2 rounds and if he can show pure consistency, he'll earn his spot, but as of now, he hasn't.

Helbig gets most of his possessions free across half back. He's a great user of the ball but his performances haven't warranted taking anyone's position in the 1s.

Miles and Darrou are both rookies and unfortunately cannot get a game yet.

The major thing we all agree on is that we cannot wait to see these young guys in our team and the day that a more dangerous, attacking wingman can take Grigg's spot, then awesome! But for now, the younger guys are still honing there games in the 2s.

The day that someone as tough and pretty reliable like Ricky can overtake him, then fantastic! But for now, no one can make an impact like Petterd.

I think that we all agree on these things and we all want the youngsters to come on and be superstars for us. However at the minute, they're not quite there.

Robust debate and discussion is fantastic, but the s**t slinging at each other when we are all of the same beliefs and all understand what it's going to take us to be successful, is horrendous and was horrible last night.

C'mon Tiges, we're in this together!
 
Good post. My biggest issue at the moment and I posted it elsewhere earlier in the week is that when Dimma took over he said he wouldn't take shortcuts etc.

Tell me how Hampson, Thomas, Petterd, Aaron Edwards aren't shortcuts?
 

Lukey D

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Good post. My biggest issue at the moment and I posted it elsewhere earlier in the week is that when Dimma took over he said he wouldn't take shortcuts etc.

Tell me how Hampson, Thomas, Petterd, Aaron Edwards aren't shortcuts?
I completely understand this but all Dimma would've been thinking is 'what made Hawks successful when I was there? Hmm, they bought in mature players to aid the younger guys'.

That's how I see it.

At the end of the day, it hasn't been all bad, but what keeps me satisfied is knowing that we have at least 5 young guys who will be jets for us who are slowly but surely honing their games in the 2s and improving each week.

Eventually:

Miles > Thomas
Mcbean > Hampson
Lennon > Petterd
McDonough > Grigg

I suppose I see the VFL team every week so it's easier for me to feel more satisfied.
 

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I completely understand this but all Dimma would've been thinking is 'what made Hawks successful when I was there? Hmm, they bought in mature players to aid the younger guys'.

That's how I see it.

At the end of the day, it hasn't been all bad, but what keeps me satisfied is knowing that we have at least 5 young guys who will be jets for us who are slowly but surely honing their games in the 2s and improving each week.

Eventually:

Miles > Thomas
Mcbean > Hampson
Lennon > Petterd
McDonough > Grigg

I suppose I see the VFL team every week so it's easier for me to be a bit more satisfied.

Hawthorn brought in gun players from other teams. Burgoyne & Gunston perfect examples.

Someone like McDonough isn't going to benefit anymore from VFL.
 

Lukey D

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Hawthorn brought in gun players from other teams. Burgoyne & Gunston perfect examples.

Someone like McDonough isn't going to benefit anymore from VFL.
Yes but McDonough is still only 19. He knows exactly where he is at. And believe me, he would've been in the team this week if it weren't for the 4 day turnaround. People can say, 'just make him the sub', but people will soon learn that we will be a much better team when McDonough is playing 4 quarters for us. I honestly haven't seen a youngster at this club like him. Jet!

Agree on what you said about Burgoyne and Gunston, however Maric has been good, as has Houli (at times) and Knights was looking ominous until his injuries.

People forget that Petterd, Thomas, Stephenson etc were all rookie selections.
 

rideclutch

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Just on the gameday thread, it's always going to be messy when you've gone from our 2013 form to 2014 form. It's one thing to be rolled by a smooth moving machine like the Cats/Hawks and we can say "Oh well, we're just not good enough...".

It's another to see some of our supposed 'stars' getting overrun and playing dumb footy against the Brisbane 3rds. We're playing a particularly frustrating brand of footy at the moment.
 

Lukey D

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Just on the gameday thread, it's always going to be messy when you've gone from our 2013 form to 2014 form. It's one thing to be rolled by a smooth moving machine like the Cats/Hawks and we can say "Oh well, we're just not good enough...".

It's another to see some of our supposed 'stars' getting overrun and playing dumb footy against the Brisbane 3rds. We're playing a particularly frustrating brand of footy at the moment.
But this is my point, we ALL agree on this, so I just don't understand the animosity between everyone.

We are all frustrated at predominantly the same things and we all agree on our downfalls and failings.
 
Yes but McDonough is still only 19. He knows exactly where he is at. And believe me, he would've been in the team this week if it weren't for the 4 day turnaround. People can say, 'just make him the sub', but people will soon learn that we will be a much better team when McDonough is playing 4 quarters for us. I honestly haven't seen a youngster at this club like him. Jet!

Agree on what you said about Burgoyne and Gunston, however Maric has been good, as has Houli (at times) and Knights was looking ominous until his injuries.

People forget that Petterd, Thomas, Stephenson etc were all rookie selections.


And these rookies are picked every week..? I thought they were recruited for depth? The club lied to us.

McDonough out of contract this year? I wouldn't be surprised if he ended back in Adelaide.
 
But this is my point, we ALL agree on this, so I just don't understand the animosity between everyone.

We are all frustrated at predominantly the same things and we all agree on our downfalls and failings.

Not everyone. Some posters think we are just going to magically turn it around though. They don't comprehend that we've beaten the 2 worst teams so far and unconvincingly
 

Lukey D

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And these rookies are picked every week..? I thought they were recruited for depth? The club lied to us.

McDonough out of contract this year? I wouldn't be surprised if he ended back in Adelaide.
I bet you see Thomas dropped this week.

This is what supporters have to understand; At the start of the season, Thomas warranted a game ahead of any of our young guys. But now, the young guys in the 2s played well last week, if they back it up this week, they'll push Thomas, Grigg etc out of the team and they'll go back to being depth.

Stephenson has only played when no other ruckman was available. That cannot be argued.

And Petterd is deserving of a game at the moment.
 

Lukey D

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Not everyone. Some posters think we are just going to magically turn it around though. They don't comprehend that we've beaten the 2 worst teams so far and unconvincingly
These supporters are just heart broken at the moment but I'm sure they all understand we've been very underwhelming.

Once our team consists of Maric, Deledio, Rance, Knights and McDonough, things will be very different.

It won't magically turn around but things will begin to change soon. Next weekend becomes very interesting.
 

nut

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Good post. My biggest issue at the moment and I posted it elsewhere earlier in the week is that when Dimma took over he said he wouldn't take shortcuts etc.

Tell me how Hampson, Thomas, Petterd, Aaron Edwards aren't shortcuts?

We paid way overs for Hampsom

Thomas is a rookie listed player... adds inside Depth. Not a long term player and will be valuable in the 2's setting the standard. I have no problem with this pick up.

Petterd.... Rookie draft... and upgraded cost us nothing.

Aaron Edwards got our forwardline working again last year.... third rounder... cheap. again I have no problem with him.

You have to remember that the last 5 years of drafts have been raped.... we have done well to increase the talent pool in tough circumstances.
 

rideclutch

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But this is my point, we ALL agree on this, so I just don't understand the animosity between everyone.

We are all frustrated at predominantly the same things and we all agree on our downfalls and failings.
Essentially, some people are better at controlling their emotions than others.

Futhermore, whilst I agree with your post in spirit, I'm not actually sure a lot of us ARE of the same beliefs and understanding. For example, it's very easy to say the hacks are costing us games, they're not good enough, Dimma's cut corners etc.

What about the blokes he was probably relying on being guns?? Ellis, Floss, Grimes - the list goes on of players who have stagnated. My gun is firmly pointed at them (and subsequently our coaching staff) before Thomas, Hampson etc.
 

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I bet you see Thomas dropped this week.

This is what supporters have to understand; At the start of the season, Thomas warranted a game ahead of any of our young guys. But now, the young guys in the 2s played well last week, if they back it up this week, they'll push Thomas, Grigg etc out of the team and they'll go back to being depth.

Stephenson has only played when no other ruckman was available. That cannot be argued.

And Petterd is deserving of a game at the moment.

Thomas shouldn't have started Round 1...same with Petterd in 2013. They were recruited for depth, not to be best 22.

Thomas should have been dropped when Jacko returned.

There's no sugar coating these decisions.
 

Lukey D

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We paid way overs for Hampsom

Thomas is a rookie listed player... adds inside Depth. Not a long term player and will be valuable in the 2's setting the standard. I have no problem with this pick up.

Petterd.... Rookie draft... and upgraded cost us nothing.

Aaron Edwards got our forwardline working again last year.... third rounder... cheap. again I have no problem with him.

You have to remember that the last 5 years of drafts have been raped.... we have done well to increase the talent pool in tough circumstances.
Absolutely spot on.

We haven't wasted draft picks on kids.

The kids we have selected are coming along beautifully in the 2s and their turn will come when it's well and truly earnt.
 

Neen

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We are where we are for a number of reasons, and most of what is discussed is true from our point of view. As a lifelong supporter, I'm as frustrated as the next diehard. Here are my reasons why we have gone "backwards" ;

1 - Last year we had minimal injuries to key players. We lost Maric for a few games and that was about it.
2 - We played with confidence and flair. Easily beat both Grand Finalists on the MCG with our gameplan
3 - We overachieved last year. We finished 5th, when we were really a 7th or 8th placed side.
4 - Because of reasons 1 + 2, our bottom six players could coast and not affect the side
5 - Coaches "fiddled" with the structure during the preseason when it was not required and it backfired.
6 - Passengers are exposed because they cannot execute the new gameplan, and they can't adjust BACK to last year's gameplan.

Point 5 is our biggest issue. It has derailed our season so far. We should have beaten Bulldogs and CGS and the media should be focusing on the fact that Hawthorn are our bitches for next round's games.

Deledio, Maric and Rance are crucial to our side (see point 1)

The 4 day turnaround is a failure by the coaches to manage the list. Foley and Madonna should have been rested for the second half so they would be available to take Grigg and Thomas / Edwards spot in the selected side. That's a problem. The club failed to plan ahead.

Kids are slowly introduced into a good side - Conca, Ellis and Vlas last year. In 2012 we throw Elton into the senior side and it badly affected his confidence. Right now, we have no one being phased into the side as the coach prefers recycled players. Lloyd has debuted and it worked. Gordon debuted and it worked. King languishes at VFL and that's how it should be. Grigg should be replaced by Helbig, Madonna or Foley. No excuses. Thomas can be replaced by Foley. Edwards can be replaced by Lennon. Madonna AND Lennon should be in the side.

Once Deledio, Maric and Rance are back in the side, the whole team will lift. Play two kids and drop the passengers. Revert back to the structure we had last year and I can handle any losses that come our way. The way we played last night reminded me of the mid eighties.
 
Absolutely spot on.

We haven't wasted draft picks on kids.

The kids we have selected are coming along beautifully in the 2s and their turn will come when it's well and truly earnt.


It's not about wasting picks. We are wasting game time for these kids by playing the recycled players for no reason. Dimma said they will only play when needed.
 

nut

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Thomas shouldn't have started Round 1...same with Petterd in 2013. They were recruited for depth, not to be best 22.

Thomas should have been dropped when Jacko returned.

There's no sugar coating these decisions.

Agree... Thomas should now be moved aside for Arnott and jackson to do the heavy work.
 

Lukey D

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Thomas shouldn't have started Round 1...same with Petterd in 2013. They were recruited for depth, not to be best 22.

Thomas should have been dropped when Jacko returned.

There's no sugar coating these decisions.
Cmon Sante, you're a fantastic poster and you're knowledge is spot on. We have a pre season for a reason. To see who gets a game round 1. Thomas earnt it ahead of all our young guys.

Remember McDonough was picked round 1 also, but at that time, Thomas was ahead of McIntosh, Helbig, Lennon etc
 

Lukey D

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It's not about wasting picks. We are wasting game time for these kids by playing the recycled players for no reason. Dimma said they will only play when needed.
And at the moment they are needed because the young guys are still a tiny bit away atm.
 
And at the moment they are needed because the young guys are still a tiny bit away atm.

We will never see if players like Helbig can make it because he doesn't get a chance. I'd rather see him playing and play like we are than a Thomas/Grigg
 
Cmon Sante, you're a fantastic poster and you're knowledge is spot on. We have a pre season for a reason. To see who gets a game round 1. Thomas earnt it ahead of all our young guys.

Remember McDonough was picked round 1 also, but at that time, Thomas was ahead of McIntosh, Helbig, Lennon etc

He was and then dropped after one match? Why??
 

nut

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It's not about wasting picks. We are wasting game time for these kids by playing the recycled players for no reason. Dimma said they will only play when needed.

We've wasted alot of game time in kids over the last 10 years......

We will never see if players like Helbig can make it because he doesn't get a chance. I'd rather see him playing and play like we are than a Thomas/Grigg

Helbig has been injured most of the time... and when given the chance has failed. I still think he can make it but lets reward form instead of playing kids for the sake of playing kids..... Nason, Post, Webberly, .... I could go on and on.
 

Lukey D

All Australian
Apr 9, 2010
792
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We are where we are for a number of reasons, and most of what is discussed is true from our point of view. As a lifelong supporter, I'm as frustrated as the next diehard. Here are my reasons why we have gone "backwards" ;

1 - Last year we had minimal injuries to key players. We lost Maric for a few games and that was about it.
2 - We played with confidence and flair. Easily beat both Grand Finalists on the MCG with our gameplan
3 - We overachieved last year. We finished 5th, when we were really a 7th or 8th placed side.
4 - Because of reasons 1 + 2, our bottom six players could coast and not affect the side
5 - Coaches "fiddled" with the structure during the preseason when it was not required and it backfired.
6 - Passengers are exposed because they cannot execute the new gameplan, and they can't adjust BACK to last year's gameplan.

Point 5 is our biggest issue. It has derailed our season so far. We should have beaten Bulldogs and CGS and the media should be focusing on the fact that Hawthorn are our bitches for next round's games.

Deledio, Maric and Rance are crucial to our side (see point 1)

The 4 day turnaround is a failure by the coaches to manage the list. Foley and Madonna should have been rested for the second half so they would be available to take Grigg and Thomas / Edwards spot in the selected side. That's a problem. The club failed to plan ahead.

Kids are slowly introduced into a good side - Conca, Ellis and Vlas last year. In 2012 we throw Elton into the senior side and it badly affected his confidence. Right now, we have no one being phased into the side as the coach prefers recycled players. Lloyd has debuted and it worked. Gordon debuted and it worked. King languishes at VFL and that's how it should be. Grigg should be replaced by Helbig, Madonna or Foley. No excuses. Thomas can be replaced by Foley. Edwards can be replaced by Lennon. Madonna AND Lennon should be in the side.

Once Deledio, Maric and Rance are back in the side, the whole team will lift. Play two kids and drop the passengers. Revert back to the structure we had last year and I can handle any losses that come our way. The way we played last night reminded me of the mid eighties.
Fantastic point and the 5 points you mentioned are spot on!

It's now round 5, the coaches now have a fair understanding of what's working, what's not, whose performing and whose not.

In the VFL however, it's only round 3 this week. If McIntosh, McDonough, Foley and Lennon continue to impress, they will get games very soon.

It's as if some supporters think that the round 1 selected team needs to stay the same until the end of the year. The young guys will slowly be phased in very soon. You just can't drop 300 games worth of experience for 10 games worth when our season is still alive.
 

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