Perspective about the team and supporters

[rideclutch]

Absolutely spot on.

That was my point from before, not everyone subscribes to nut's reasoning there. Clearly both of us do, but most people will still point the finger at the recycled players when actually they've held their form to a consistent level. They are being 'shown up' because they're under massive pressure to perform when our 'guns' aren't firing.

Look at the way Cotch's form tapers when he has to carry all the time. But the same supporters will say "Oh he's not getting any help". Well how about our bottom 12 or so players getting a little help from the supposed guns??

 

[Lukey D]

We will never see if players like Helbig can make it because he doesn't get a chance. I'd rather see him playing and play like we are than a Thomas/Grigg

But this is the mentality of a team whose season is shot. Play the kids. Yes we have underperformed but we are still 2-3 and still alive.

Take it from me whose involved in the VFL team, I love him but Helbig hasn't earnt a game yet.

 

[Lukey D]

We've wasted alot of game time in kids over the last 10 years......



Helbig has been injured most of the time... and when given the chance has failed. I still think he can make it but lets reward form instead of playing kids for the sake of playing kids..... Nason, Post, Webberly, .... I could go on and on.

Exactly what I'm trying to say myself.

We are still at a stage of the year where we can't just gift games to kids.

They need to earn it, and most of them slowly are! These things take time!

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

We paid way overs for Hampsom

Thomas is a rookie listed player... adds inside Depth. Not a long term player and will be valuable in the 2's setting the standard. I have no problem with this pick up.

Petterd.... Rookie draft... and upgraded cost us nothing.

Aaron Edwards got our forwardline working again last year.... third rounder... cheap. again I have no problem with him.

You have to remember that the last 5 years of drafts have been raped.... we have done well to increase the talent pool in tough circumstances.

Azza Edwards was spent gong like pick 81 which we weren't going to use and neither did North. Who could we have picked up at pick 81 . I'll have to check the draft guide and see of their is a player that we might have missed out on. Maybe the next Chris Grant at 105

 

[sante]

But this is the mentality of a team whose season is shot. Play the kids. Yes we have underperformed but we are still 2-3 and still alive.

Take it from me whose involved in the VFL team, I love him but Helbig hasn't earnt a game yet.

We will be 2-5. it's not our win/loss record that is concerning, it's how we are playing

 

[Lukey D]

We will be 2-5. it's not our win/loss record that is concerning, it's how we are playing

Haha I know mate.

But at the end of the day, we have played like absolute poo and managed 2 wins and a couple of close losses.

I know it was an undermanned Brisbane last night, however a very undermanned Tigers last night showed some very positive signs in the last qtr and a half.

I really think Dimma will realise how damaging we can be when we run and it will be implemented for the 1st bounce next week!

 

[nut]

I really think Dimma will realise how damaging we can be when we run and it will be implemented for the 1st bounce next week!

We did in the first qtr too.... I was predicting a 100 pint thumping.... and really that would have been the pass mark against that Brisbane side.

But we came out in the second qtr and was back into the same s**t the previous 4 games. Something aint right.

 

[tigertaskforce]

just a comparision for helbig not the same player or position Griffiths finally INJURY FREE and given a fair run look at him go considering how many on here wanted him gone. will helbig be same ? time will tell. imho thomas was the right upgrade earned his spot mile has time on his side and WILL replace him in timewe have moved one limited played to the magoos [ king ] never to return I hope [ ps love the bloke but hes past it ] we need to focus on taking the game on and planning a retirement plan for next year. newey,king, and upgrading sheds,pettard,grigg, at long last we can phase these players out slowly and with little or no effect on the side. my 2c

 

[theflea]

And these rookies are picked every week..? I thought they were recruited for depth? The club lied to us.

McDonough out of contract this year? I wouldn't be surprised if he ended back in Adelaide.

Lied to us or those players are playing better than the players that they were covering? Planning coverage, but the coverage are playing better, isn't lying to us. Agree that some have played better, but I still think we are gradually going to transition them into our side just not all at once.

 

[Lukey D]

Lied to us or those players are playing better than the players that they were covering? Planning coverage, but the coverage are playing better, isn't lying to us. Agree that some have played better, but I still think we are gradually going to transition them into our side just not all at once.

Exactly my sentiments.

The 'depth' has come in and actually earnt a spot. Some people seem to think all the depth players are playing.

It's only Petterd and Thomas, one looks to be out next week. Grigg and Houli were never picked as depth, they were picked to add something. Houli does, Grigg has stagnated and will be overtaken.

Stephenson, Edwards, Banfield etc will not get games unless for injury.

The young guys will get their chance, and it will be this year. We just can't wield the axe and bring all of them all at once, because then we will lose by 200 points and the same posters saying we should play them will be the first calling for their heads and going on about how crap our recruiting is etc etc

 

[AJ Green]

Most supporters have an unrealistic expectation of the team (top 4), partly due to pre-season hype from the media. It would be a good effort to make finals again, and build confidence and continuity. One thing that annoys me about supporters is when they make an ultimatum to the team- 'We should beat team x by at least 10 goals or it means we have gone backwards'. People need to realise this is AFL, not some bush league. Teams are pro athletes with elite tactics to improve and change from week to week. Overall some people need more perspective.

 

[theflea]

That was my point from before, not everyone subscribes to nut's reasoning there. Clearly both of us do, but most people will still point the finger at the recycled players when actually they've held their form to a consistent level. They are being 'shown up' because they're under massive pressure to perform when our 'guns' aren't firing.

Look at the way Cotch's form tapers when he has to carry all the time. But the same supporters will say "Oh he's not getting any help". Well how about our bottom 12 or so players getting a little help from the supposed guns??

Voss stated on the fox gameday, that he agreed with the so called 'recycled recuits' as a 'yes' purely because he said that if the seasoned players cant play at a good level, how can the role players be expected to take up the slack?

 

[theflea]

But this is the mentality of a team whose season is shot. Play the kids. Yes we have underperformed but we are still 2-3 and still alive.

Take it from me whose involved in the VFL team, I love him but Helbig hasn't earnt a game yet.

What is your involvement mate?

 

[Lukey D]

What is your involvement mate?

Statistician for the Tigers VFL team mate.

Had kept it on the down low at the start of the year but then realised there's no harm in publiscing the stats... It's not as if I'm giving away key information, even if I was privvy to it

 

[tigs2010]

Essentially, some people are better at controlling their emotions than others.

Futhermore, whilst I agree with your post in spirit, I'm not actually sure a lot of us ARE of the same beliefs and understanding. For example, it's very easy to say the hacks are costing us games, they're not good enough, Dimma's cut corners etc.

What about the blokes he was probably relying on being guns?? Ellis, Floss, Grimes - the list goes on of players who have stagnated. My gun is firmly pointed at them (and subsequently our coaching staff) before Thomas, Hampson etc.

Yep, lets blame the blokes that have played 47, 23 and 29 games. You have to expect inconsistent performances from guys like that. It's the experienced guys like Newy, Grigg, Edwards, Thomas who are not delivering consistently that need to have the blow torch applied to them. Grigg and Edwards could actually come back into the team as B-graders but they are cruising along as a C-grader with no VFL threat on them. Drop them and make them perform before coming back again. Ellis is probably getting that way too but those 2 senior blokes should be going first for being lazy. Newy sadly looks done and Thomas can't play alongside Jacko unless we want to be the slowest side ever.

 

[tigs2010]

Thomas shouldn't have started Round 1...same with Petterd in 2013. They were recruited for depth, not to be best 22.

Thomas should have been dropped when Jacko returned.

There's no sugar coating these decisions.

I think he earnt Round 1. But agree he needed to go when Jacko came back. He's not earning his spot anymore. Time to go.

 

[Lukey D]

I think he earnt Round 1. But agree he needed to go when Jacko came back. He's not earning his spot anymore. Time to go.

And this is the whole point of it all.

The moment young guys step up and/or better players come back into the team from injury, the depth players go back to being depth... But at least we know when called upon, our team won't be ridiculously worse because of it.

 

[tigs2010]

And this is the whole point of it all.

The moment young guys step up and/or better players come back into the team from injury, the depth players go back to being depth... But at least we know when called upon, our team won't be ridiculously worse because of it.

There are others that haven't earnt a game and that's what has been annoying me. Some of them are cruising. Guys that with a bit of pressure on would be B-grade players. Grigg and Edwards are potentially so much better than the s**t they've dished up this year. Even last year in Grigg's case. 2012 he was a good, solid B-grader.

Even if Dimma doesn't want to add another kid, bring in Foley for one of them. First, you might get one of them to pull the finger out and start delivering and second you find out whether Foley has anything left to offer. Or we play another kid and we might unearth another gem. So far we've found 3 in a 3 week period. Obviously last week wasn't going to happen but this week it needs to happen.

 

[rideclutch]

Yep, lets blame the blokes that have played 47, 23 and 29 games. You have to expect inconsistent performances from guys like that.

Not heaping all the blame on them; should have clarified, but I think they've escaped criticism IMO. Not even criticism, but just acknowledging that they're quite down on last years output. I judge them harshly because I know they're good and that's where our improvement will come from. I'm a patient man though, can wait. Didn't mean Floss so much, moreso Conca/Martin.... Vickery .

Massively agree about the players you mentioned minus Thomas, he's basically done what I expected, the other blokes have been passengers.

 

[tigs2010]

Not heaping all the blame on them; should have clarified, but I think they've escaped criticism IMO. Not even criticism, but just acknowledging that they're quite down on last years output. I judge them harshly because I know they're good and that's where our improvement will come from. I'm a patient man though, can wait. Didn't mean Floss so much, moreso Conca/Martin.... Vickery .

Massively agree about the players you mentioned minus Thomas, he's basically done what I expected, the other blokes have been passengers.

Thomas would be the last of those guys I'd have got rid of but him and Jacko makes us too slow.

Personally I think Conca has been pretty good. His stats will probably prove me wrong there. Martin has been played all over the shop, which is the same reason I cut Houli some slack for now. Vickery has been poo and can add Chaplin to that list.

Would love to have the luxury of dropping Ellis to find form but there are just so many that are worse. He's at least having a go. (It's sad that "having a go" should get you in the team but that seems to be where we are at)

Floss has been pretty good this year. Excluding last week which happens with the star players a week after concussion. Shouldn't have played. I still think he's playing out of position. He is our Selwood/Voss type. I'd love to see him 50/50 midfield/HBF from now.

 

[theflea]

Thomas would be the last of those guys I'd have got rid of but him and Jacko makes us too slow.

Personally I think Conca has been pretty good. His stats will probably prove me wrong there. Martin has been played all over the shop, which is the same reason I cut Houli some slack for now. Vickery has been poo and can add Chaplin to that list.

Would love to have the luxury of dropping Ellis to find form but there are just so many that are worse. He's at least having a go. (It's sad that "having a go" should get you in the team but that seems to be where we are at)

Floss has been pretty good this year. Excluding last week which happens with the star players a week after concussion. Shouldn't have played. I still think he's playing out of position. He is our Selwood/Voss type. I'd love to see him 50/50 midfield/HBF from now.

The problem we have with flossy is he is an intercept marker, so is donuts that type? Not that I remember. If we can find that player then he will get time in the middle I think. lennon could be that player?

 

[tigs2010]

The problem we have with flossy is he is an intercept marker, so is donuts that type? Not that I remember. If we can find that player then he will get time in the middle I think. lennon could be that player?

Yeah I think Lennon is an even better mark than Floss. And an upgrade again in kicking. Floss is a beast. Give him another 2 years and I could see him really changing the attitude of this whole team if he plays in the guts. That Judd, Selwood, Voss type that puts the team on their back and inspires them to do everything he's doing. The heartbeat of the team.

 

[rideclutch]

Thomas would be the last of those guys I'd have got rid of but him and Jacko makes us too slow.

Yeah for sure, I meant moreso I think he's played to his expected level so far. Whether that means he gets a game or not is dependent on team balance/conditions etc.

I agree on Conca, think he's on a slow burn and needs time/footy to get his feel for the game. I do like him as a player, would love to see him step it up in the next couple of weeks though when you'd think Cotch will be heavily targeted by the opposition.

 

[tigs2010]

Yeah for sure, I meant moreso I think he's played to his expected level so far. Whether that means he gets a game or not is dependent on team balance/conditions etc.

I agree on Conca, think he's on a slow burn and needs time/footy to get his feel for the game. I do like him as a player, would love to see him step it up in the next couple of weeks though when you'd think Cotch will be heavily targeted by the opposition.

Ahh ok I get you now. Agree.

Let's hope he keeps getting better. Nearly had a heart attack when his hammy cramped.

 

[cairo tiger]

Yep, lets blame the blokes that have played 47, 23 and 29 games. You have to expect inconsistent performances from guys like that. It's the experienced guys like Newy, Grigg, Edwards, Thomas who are not delivering consistently that need to have the blow torch applied to them. Grigg and Edwards could actually come back into the team as B-graders but they are cruising along as a C-grader with no VFL threat on them. Drop them and make them perform before coming back again. Ellis is probably getting that way too but those 2 senior blokes should be going first for being lazy. Newy sadly looks done and Thomas can't play alongside Jacko unless we want to be the slowest side ever.

spot on.