Pies Salary Cap Pressure - real or just theory

[damuzzdu]

Having been a little surprised by the Sunday nite media story that Pies were having salary cap issues I decided to put the below graph together to see if there was any real basis to this.

Now the situation has changed some what in that Beams is now moving on, but it seems the media might have been right...

Now of course the amounts are just my pure guesses. But if any one has ideas or thoughts or knowledge of actual amounts please add to the thread.

I know in the CBA that rookies get a specific amount and so do 1st round draft picks. Tried hunting for those numbers but can't find anything.

These changes are before any changes in contract amounts from the 2014 season to the 2015 season. This could be up or down - who knows really.

Interested in ppl thoughts/views on this

One thing this looks like we might have the ability to bank cap space for a real run at PD in next year's FA period.



FYI 2015 TPP is $11,061,890 (see below sheet)



( MODS: If you want to move this thread into the Beams mega-thread feel free )

 

[Anzacday]

Having been a little surprised by the Sunday nite media story that Pies were having salary cap issues I decided to put the below graph together to see if there was any real basis to this.

Now the situation has changed some what in that Beams is now moving on, but it seems the media might have been right...

Now of course the amounts are just my pure guesses. But if any one has ideas or thoughts or knowledge of actual amounts please add to the thread.

I know in the CBA that rookies get a specific amount and so do 1st round draft picks. Tried hunting for those numbers but can't find anything.

These changes are before any changes in contract amounts from the 2014 season to the 2015 season. This could be up or down - who knows really.

Interested in ppl thoughts/views on this

One thing this looks like we might have the ability to bank cap space for a real run at PD in next year's FA period.

View attachment 87113

FYI 2015 TPP is $11,061,890 (see below sheet)View attachment 87112

( MODS: If you want to move this thread into the Beams mega-thread feel free )

Just another tactic, like the media release re negotiations with Brisbane

 

[HeathySure]

Its not as simple as in/out, players contracts change over the length of contract and some players might get paid more in the last years of their contract and some less. I have seen a few contracts in my line of work and the amount that a contract can be front ended or back ended is enormous

 

[Jasper84]

We seem to be forgetting that players such as Steele, Reid and Grundy etc signed contract extensions. Good chance they are on larger pay packets which would now need to be factored in.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Speculating here:

It is probably a ruse, however, if you consider that guys like Pendles, Cloke, Swan, and Reid are probably all over 600k, then it starts to look different.

Guys like Sidebottom, Greenwood, Brown, and Toovey are all probably about 400k or a bit over...

Then there are guys like Blair Maccaffer, Goldsack, Young, Elliott, who would all be between 300-400k...

Finally there are guys like Witts, Grundy, Taylor Adams, Keeffe, JT, Williams, Sinclair, Dwyer, White, Fasolo etc... who would be between 200-300k (I'd wager a few of these sorts are closer to 300) (this may also include players like Broomhead who we might be worried about losing)...

You can see how it adds up. We are paying too much for our middle to lower band IMO. Guys like Young, White, and Adams, all would be on less at their original clubs, but we paid overs to get players like these. I know it would only be like 50k overs, but pay three players overs, and suddenly your are paying 150k over what you normally would.

Again, this is all speculation, but I'd wager it's not far off.

 

[PepperFace]

I mentioned this yesterday. But if we have salary cap issues the club have seriously overrated our players. I know as supporters we tend to overrate players but how can the club be in a salary cap situation when we have bought in heaps of youth in the past 3 years for senior premiership players???

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

I mentioned this yesterday. But if we have salary cap issues the club have seriously overrated our players. I know as supporters we tend to overrate players but how can the club be in a salary cap situation when we have bought in heaps of youth in the past 3 years for senior premiership players???

Correct. I'd say our middle tier players, guys like Blair, Young, White, Goldsack, Dwyer etc... are all on too much coin. It wouldn't be heaps, but 4 or 5 playes that are anywhere from 10k - 50 k over and it adds up.

 

[PepperFace]

Correct. I'd say our middle tier players, guys like Blair, Young, White, Goldsack, Dwyer etc... are all on too much coin. It wouldn't be heaps, but 4 or 5 playes that are anywhere from 10k - 50 k over and it adds up.

Yep. Those guys you mentioned and Toovey, Harry O, etc should have been on average afl salary. Around $290k i believe. I can just imagine Goldsack, Blair and H being on $400k contracts and that makes me sick

 

[Kirby]

Jeepers guys, the club said at the members meeting that they were gearing up for a crack at the end of next season with a "war chest".

They have essentially front ended a lot of contracts for the coming season to free up more space for the following season to have a crack at FA. The names coming into contention for FA are way better next year. Think Dangerfield, Sloane etc.

Just think of it this way -- if a player is on 1.2 million for 3 years it does not mean thaty the club will pay him $400k for each of those 3 years. They may pay him $500k for the first 2 years then 200k in the 3rd. Or any other combination you can think of.

I also wouldn't believe anything much the club says about their salary cap in the media.

 

[Smokeyr67]

Correct. I'd say our middle tier players, guys like Blair, Young, White, Goldsack, Dwyer etc... are all on too much coin. It wouldn't be heaps, but 4 or 5 playes that are anywhere from 10k - 50 k over and it adds up.

As long as those guys realise that they may not get much in the way of a payrise in the future thats good cap management.

 

[cobbly]

I always find this sort of salary cap talk odd, seeing as every club has to pay 95% of the cap anyway. Which means at most we have about 550k to work with. Someone has to get the rest, so of course guys like harry and blair are going to be paid more than they are worth. The middle tier at hawthorn are probably getting paid less than they are worth. That's how it works. Blame the AFL and the PA for the minimum cap spend.

Clubs just have to hope that those getting more than they are worth are willing to take a pay cut and/or front load/ back load hugely to allow the club to bring in good players. When you think about it though, it's actually in the players interest to be in a crap team.

 

[MagpieJoel]

It's going to change from year to year with the front loading etc. We may be tight this year, but it might open up next year.

 

[golazo]

I'd love to think we're using loopholes to avoid paying more than 95% of the cap so we can make a big raid on free agency in the next year or so

 

[PepperFace]

Beams was probably on a front loaded contract and next season would only have been paid $200k......so no wonder he wanted the $800k contract at Brisbane. I think players now breaking contracts is going to make clubs wary of front loading

 

[vjknight]

When you think about it though, it's actually in the players interest to be in a crap team.

why do you think tom boyd wants to go to the dogs.

a lot of spare cap to be filled, and he (see pickering) wants it all

 

[danielnajdek]

Beams was probably on a front loaded contract and next season would only have been paid $200k......so no wonder he wanted the $800k contract at Brisbane. I think players now breaking contracts is going to make clubs wary of front loading

Might be a dumb question but do we have to pay out Beams for next year?

 

[PepperFace]

Might be a dumb question but do we have to pay out Beams for next year?

No - as he will have broken his contract to move north

 

[danielnajdek]

No - as he will have broken his contract to move north

Kk thanks.

 

[peatease]

Just a thought, so if we have to pay at a minimum 95% of the cap, the middle tier players in general will earn the same amount.
Like on average you have some guns and some duds/kids at either end. So when some from the top end leave, somebody has to step up and earn some extra coin right? Macaffer could've been 10-12th best player in 2010, but now he's top 5 (if you look at copeland result).

We've had a relatively young list too, so we've topped up on "experience" who are probably over paid, but somebody has to get paid right? They'd be on shorter contracts so they can be delisted when we want to pay up the improving kids or wheel in a whale.

 

[MightyPies1]

Might be a dumb question but do we have to pay out Beams for next year?

No.

 

[Apex36]

I would imagine the club is trying to keep to 95% of the cap this year so they can go hard at a free agent next year.

Given we reportedly made an enormous offer to Dangerfield, I can't see us being at max cap % this year.

 

[dubber]

Might be a dumb question but do we have to pay out Beams for next year?

Yes we do, we pay out insults, sledges and general boos.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

If we're under salaray cap pressure, then our list management/finance department needs to be sacked.

 

[PepperFace]

If we're under salaray cap pressure, then our list management/finance department needs to be sacked.

The only way it makes sense is if we are under pressure to keep it above the minimum spend

 

[Rummy]

Just a thought, so if we have to pay at a minimum 95% of the cap, the middle tier players in general will earn the same amount.
Like on average you have some guns and some duds/kids at either end. So when some from the top end leave, somebody has to step up and earn some extra coin right? Macaffer could've been 10-12th best player in 2010, but now he's top 5 (if you look at copeland result).

We've had a relatively young list too, so we've topped up on "experience" who are probably over paid, but somebody has to get paid right? They'd be on shorter contracts so they can be delisted when we want to pay up the improving kids or wheel in a whale.

No, just because a top wage earner leaves, does not mean that you have to start paying the rest of the middle tier players above what would be expected. What you would do instead, say if Swan decided he didn't want to play on next year, we would most likely fall short of the minimum 95% cap spend, but rather than just giving the money away, they would front load someone else's contract. So say we had to pay Macaffer $250k over each of the next two seasons, they could alter his contract so that he gets $400k next year and only $100k in the year after, which would allow us to spend future money on a free agent, or resign existing players deserving a pay rise.

This is the reason why I am so against us getting Varcoe, because not only do I not think he is a good enough player, but because he would demand a hefty wage $300kísh, of which we could instead just get a draft pick for Lamumba and go to the draft and get a young kid on $75k, and with that saving over the next 2-3 years (likely to be $600k+) we could use that to add to our offer for an awesome free agent like Dangerfield etc, which could be the difference between winning his signature or not.