Opinion Player Development

[_RT_]

Last night I watched Selwood and Hodge on the Footy Show and listened with interest when they were asked about the development of their younger players and how it has allowed them to maintain the levels that they have set over recent years even as older players have moved on and kids have come in.

What both of them said is that in both sides the kids were made to work hard and buy into the way the club plays if they wanted to be part of the success. Not only that but the kids that have come into the side only did so by earning their way in through performances in the reserves rather than just being brought in because they were young and talented.

Now I know that things are different between our side and their sides as we've been a regular struggler while they have been fighting for flags but the way they have gone about bringing their kids through is something that we should be looking at copying.

Here are the young Hawthorn players that are currently starring in their 22 that were made to earn their spots:
Shiels - drafted #34 in 08 Draft played 17 games in first 2 years before establishing himself in his 3rd year.
Bruest - drafted #47 in 08 rookie draft didn't debut until 2011 and finally made the senior list at the end of 2011.
Duryea - drafted #69 in 09 draft, debuted 2013 and now a regular in the 22 after 13 games last year.
Suckling - drafted #81 in 08 Rookie draft, debuted 09 became best 22 regular 2011.
Langford - drafted #85 in 10 rookie draft, debuted 2013.
Litherland - drafted #55 in 10 draft, debuted this year.
Hill - drafted #33 in 11 draft, debuted in 12 became regular in 2013.

That's 7 of the Hawks current 22 who have been on the list for a few years and have only become part of that 22 in the last couple of seasons.

At Geelong there have been:
D.Simpson - drafted #34 in 07 draft, debuted 2010, injuries haven't helped.
M.Brown - drafted #15 in 08 draft debuted 2011, injuries didn't help only now becoming regular.
Motlop - drafted #39 in 08 draft debuted 2010, became a regular in 2012.
Hunt - drafted #49 in 08 draft debuted 2010 became a regular in 2012.
Duncan - drafted #28 in 09 draft, debuted 2010 regular from 2011
Christensen - drafted #40 in 09 draft, debuted 2011
Smedts - drafted #15 in 10 draft, debuted 2012
Guthrie - drafted #23 in 10 draft debuted 2011 regular from 2012
Horlin-Smith - drafted #37 in 10 draft debuted 2012 still not a regular.

That is just a sample of the Cats kids that have had to work hard to get themselves into the best 22 since being drafted.

These guys are no different to the likes of McDonough Lennon Helbig Batchelor & Dea who everyone is screaming for us to bring in except for one thing, all those guys above were forced to work for their spot in a good side. The benefit is that when these guys have finally got their crack at the big league they have been able to come in and perform the roles that they have been asked to play.

The other thing that I got from the interview with Selwood and Hodge is that their clubs are coached to systems and structures not individual players. To be part of the side the players need to buy into the way the club wants them to play even if they are highly talented kids they won't get played until they play the way the club wants them to play.

That is why I am glad in a way that we're not just bringing in the likes of Lennon McDonough Helbig Batchelor and co even though it would be quite easy to do with a few senior blokes struggling and these guys playing good footy the last couple of weeks. 2 weeks of footy shouldn't be enough to force your way into an AFL side. Put up a month of good performances and then knock on the door. Remember when a kid named Riewoldt was coming through, he was made to dominate at VFL level for about a month before he finally got his crack and it hasn't hurt his career a bit. So why should things be different with these other kids, they should be made to earn their spots as well for when they do we will truly be in a better position as a club than we currently find ourselves.

 

[tigs2010]

Difference between those sides and us is we are crap and gifting games to spuds so that young guys have to earn games. Different rules for different players. Those teams don't have that.

That's not going to motivate blokes.

 

[_RT_]

Difference between those sides and us is we are crap and gifting games to spuds so that young guys have to earn games. Different rules for different players. Those teams don't have that.

That's not going to motivate blokes.

It's not about gifting games to spuds over the kids. What it's about is making the kids earn their way in the world. You make the kids work hard to force their way into the side and it sets the tone for the next batch of kids to come in and that sets the culture for the club moving forward. If the kids aren't prepared to do the hard yards to get their spot then are they really the type of player that we want at the club. Think Troy Taylor type scenario, give me a house give me this give me that. As nice as it would be to have the likes of McDonough Lennon Helbig and co lining up in the 22 right now, personally I'd be much happier seeing them having earned it.

 

[tigs2010]

It's not about gifting games to spuds over the kids. What it's about is making the kids earn their way in the world. You make the kids work hard to force their way into the side and it sets the tone for the next batch of kids to come in and that sets the culture for the club moving forward. If the kids aren't prepared to do the hard yards to get their spot then are they really the type of player that we want at the club. Think Troy Taylor type scenario, give me a house give me this give me that. As nice as it would be to have the likes of McDonough Lennon Helbig and co lining up in the 22 right now, personally I'd be much happier seeing them having earned it.

So instead we have senior blokes bludging setting a great example for the kids busting their arses in the ressies. Working a treat so far.

 

[Tigerbob]

So instead we have senior blokes bludging setting a great example for the kids busting their arses in the ressies. Working a treat so far.

Amen brother.

What right do Petterd, Thomas, Grigg and the like have over the young guys who all pre season been immense.

McDonough for me, is getting stifled. By a complete dud who should not even be on an AFL list. Delisted from a basket case. Picked up as so called "insurance in case of injuries" but somehow even without those injuries gets into the best 22 and can't be removed.

Hardwick loves a battler. Never forget it.

 

[_RT_]

So instead we have senior blokes bludging setting a great example for the kids busting their arses in the ressies. Working a treat so far.

So what does bringing the kids in without having earned their spot achieve?

 

[theflea]

Difference between those sides and us is we are crap and gifting games to spuds so that young guys have to earn games. Different rules for different players. Those teams don't have that.

That's not going to motivate blokes.

I think the fan appraisels and the player/coach appraisel is 2 differing things, so when you say spuds, that may not be the internal view. The main difference is those guys have a great team to come into and a level of performance that makes it so much easier for them to perform their role.

 

[tigs2010]

I think the fan appraisels and the player/coach appraisel is 2 differing things, so when you say spuds, that may not be the internal view. The main difference is those guys have a great team to come into and a level of performance that makes it so much easier for them to perform their role.

Fair enough. But why do senior blokes get away with bludging and not earning a game?

 

[tigs2010]

So what does bringing the kids in without having earned their spot achieve?

The principal is solid and you can't argue against that. What in arguing against is why can the senior guys get away with bludging and the young guys have to earn a game? What message does that send the kids? If you've got the cattle on the field busting their arses and playing good footy I'd totally agree with you.

 

[Livonski]

So instead we have senior blokes bludging setting a great example for the kids busting their arses in the ressies. Working a treat so far.

So when Melbourne were spudding it up people just like you were screaming at the coach to play their number one draft pick, Watts. Wrecked him for three years at least.
You miss the point completely.

 

[tigs2010]

So when Melbourne were spudding it up people just like you were screaming at the coach to play their number one draft pick, Watts. Wrecked him for three years at least.
You miss the point completely.

Watts wasn't ready. I'm talking about guys that are ready and playing well in the ressies. I'm not arguing for Mcbean or macintosh or Lennon to come in.

I've said 1000 times they aren't ready.

 

[theflea]

Fair enough. But why do senior blokes get away with bludging and not earning a game?

I think all coaches give too much latitude to senior or established players and we aren't any different. But I bet it is discussed in match committee. King and Vickery are a case in point.

 

[tigs2010]

I think all coaches give too much latitude to senior or established players and we aren't any different. But I bet it is discussed in match committee. King and Vickery are a case in point.

Yep and it's about time. I just don't get RTs theory that senior blokes don't have to earn a spot but young kids should because it builds culture.

 

[_RT_]

The principal is solid and you can't argue against that. What in arguing against is why can the senior guys get away with bludging and the young guys have to earn a game? What message does that send the kids? If you've got the cattle on the field busting their arses and playing good footy I'd totally agree with you.

I believe we are seeing a change in culture at the club. King 2 weeks poor games gone for Lloyd who earned his spot. Vickery 3 of 4 games were poor structure changed up and Griffiths who has performed stays in, last year Griff would have paid the price and Vickery would have stayed. Had it not been for a 4 day break I believe we would have at least seen McDonough come in as well. A quiet game from Grigg tonight would be a nail in his coffin, tonight should be a Grigg special 25-30 touches 2-3 goals, anything less than that and I'd still drop him.

 

[theflea]

Yep and it's about time. I just don't get RTs theory that senior blokes don't have to earn a spot but young kids should because it builds culture.

I actually get what he means and agree really, but I do understand your point as well. But I also think posters/fans just saying spud here and there isn't earning his spot or not playing well, just isn't what is said in side the club. That is just fan bull crap and im no different either. They judge the players on a different level to what we do.

 

[Livonski]

Watts wasn't ready. I'm talking about guys that are ready and playing well in the ressies. I'm not arguing for Mcbean or macintosh or Lennon to come in.

I've said 1000 times they aren't ready.

Fair enough but then which "kids" are you talking about?

 

[tigs2010]

Fair enough but then which "kids" are you talking about?

McDonough is probably the only one. I'm more just arguing that everyone should be treated the same. Whether you're a kid an early 20's or heading towards the end of your career.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Why have all this depth if we aren't promoting the blokes performing at VFL level and keep gifting games to the likes of Grigg and Edwards after 4 shockers in a row. Thomas as well , if he was any slower he's be going backwards. Madonna needs to be played quick smart . Hellbig and OHanlon will he knocking on the door very soon. I feel sorry for Darou and Miles but we cooked that decision before the season started so they'll just have to eat and dk until round 12 unfortunately .

 

[tigs2010]

Why have all this depth if we aren't promoting the blokes performing at VFL level and keep gifting games to the likes of Grigg and Edwards after 4 shockers in a row. Thomas as well , if he was any slower he's be going backwards. Madonna needs to be played quick smart . Hellbig and OHanlon will he knocking on the door very soon. I feel sorry for Darou and Miles but we cooked that decision before the season started so they'll just have to eat and dk until round 12 unfortunately .

Can't wait to see Miles. Hopefully the step up in pace doesn't find him out Thomas style.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Only thing i learnt from the OP is that we really suck at our later draft picks.

 

[_DBF_]

OP

My only objection is someone like Batchelor had already earned his spot in our backline but isn't playing because someone like Newman is hanging on and that may actually be hindering his development.

 

[avengers]

Arnott has earned his place in the side, I remember when he made his debut in an interview he said something like he doesn't want a game gifted to him late in the year he wants to earn his game! Which he is doing!
I believe what some people aren't thinking of when saying why are we playing "spuds" like grigg and king and what not, remember some of these players are still young! I don't want us to say hey congrats ben Lennon I know you've hardly played against men before but kingy hasn't done much so have a run around and then have him physically break down because he isn't use to the physicality of the game and then mentally start to question himself because he isn't performing and starting to feel the pressure of every supporter screaming why the * did we draft this dud he can't even stay on the park!

 

[tigs2010]

Arnott has earned his place in the side, I remember when he made his debut in an interview he said something like he doesn't want a game gifted to him late in the year he wants to earn his game! Which he is doing!
I believe what some people aren't thinking of when saying why are we playing "spuds" like grigg and king and what not, remember some of these players are still young! I don't want us to say hey congrats ben Lennon I know you've hardly played against men before but kingy hasn't done much so have a run around and then have him physically break down because he isn't use to the physicality of the game and then mentally start to question himself because he isn't performing and starting to feel the pressure of every supporter screaming why the **** did we draft this dud he can't even stay on the park!

Yep. I still hold out hope Grigg might re-capture his old form but he is being gifted games and has for awhile. He's lazy. He wasn't a spud originally. I remember when he had more Brownlow votes than all Carlton players excluding Judd who he tied with,

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Why have all this depth if we aren't promoting the blokes performing at VFL level and keep gifting games to the likes of Grigg and Edwards after 4 shockers in a row. Thomas as well , if he was any slower he's be going backwards. Madonna needs to be played quick smart . Hellbig and OHanlon will he knocking on the door very soon. I feel sorry for Darou and Miles but we cooked that decision before the season started so they'll just have to eat and dk until round 12 unfortunately .

OUT: Titch
IN: Madonna

Not likely to happen as Dimma will play him down back as part of his "development". (Yet Dimma himself said that the kid has "unbelievable skills")

 

[cairo tiger]

So instead we have senior blokes bludging setting a great example for the kids busting their arses in the ressies. Working a treat so far.

spot on