Player Movement 2012

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Apr 7, 2010
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Usually this isn't really deserving of a thread, but with the amount of CA contracts set to be reduced, an increased salary cap not looking likely and just generally all the success stories over the past few seasons it seems player movement will be higher than ever in the 2012 off-season. Which is of course a good thing, because we ant the best 66 players playing, and if 38 of them come from QLD whatever.

I intend for this to be the thread to post all the articles, rumours and confirmed signings that happen over the next 6 months, and also for good discussion to take place.

It's worth noting is that Australia is scheduled to head to India to play 4 tests in February to the end of April (eg last 2-3 games of the season + Final) so teams will need to consider what impact that'll have on their squad. We've seen this season the trouble that brought.

So here's a post about what I think each squad needs and what it can lose.

Queensland:
Wants: Top order batsmen (More than one), keeper (depth)
Surplus: Seam bowlers (More than one)

Champions, but as the final showed it's nothing to do with their long dysfunctional top order. I feel for them a bit because they did lost Forrest, which was their off-season attempt to help fix that, and to be fair, pre-BigBash it wasn't as bad as it usually is, but come crunch time it crumbled. Bowling wise they ain't got s**t to worry about. You'd expect QLD to lose some of their fast bowlers so any new signing would just be depth. SA or WA might attempt to grab their OD keeper Ben Dunk meaning they'll need to get another one. They've been linked to Daniel Christen and Usman Khawaja. I was worried given his injury woes this season that James Hopes might consider retiring (making the Christen acquisition a straight swap) but given his heroics in the final that might not happen anymore. Oh and Luke Pomersbach is in QLD so they might throw a contract to him.

Surplus players: Ben Dunk (maybe), Luke Feldman, Chris Swann, Scott Walter

SA:
Wants: Top order batsmen (More than one), Wicket keeper, spinner (depth)
Surplus: Seam bowlers (Not really that much of a surplus, but it's their strength currently)

Another s**t FC season. No surprise there. They need a total revamp and with Jamie Cox, the head of SACA free from moonlighting as a selector he seems keen to finally do it. I disagree with most of the article really (Callum Ferguson captain? Jesus christ) but hey better than doing nothing. The one thing that always strikes me whenever I see the SA squad is, apart from how s**t it is, is the amount of players who are List A players only pretty much - Blizzard, Borgas, Haberfield, D. Harris, O'Brien - so I'd like to see them sort that out. I'm not saying get rid of them all, but if you're giving contracts to players who aren't likely to play test cricket for Aus(not something I'm against) why not give them to _quality_ players, even if their overseas or 30yo+ veterans?

They obviously need a wicket keeper, but they might struggle to get one, they need openers, and they might one or two, they need a spinner to cover for Nathan Lyon and they overall, they just need a star or two. Esp. if they lose Christan. So far they've been linked to Nic Maddinson (like it), Steve Smith (Like it, but don't want to see him gone from NSW) and James Muirhead (young Victorian leg spinner), Ryan Harris (Like it) and Peter Handscomb (way back) which would all add to the squad. I've also decided to link them to Mitchel Johnson, which I think could be a great move but has about a 0.2% of happening and of course, as is my way, I want them to get an overseas player.

Surplus players: Uh none really. None that play both formats anyway.

WA:
Wants: Wicket keeper, spinner (depth), general depth
Surplus: Veteran batsmen and seam bowlers

Thinking about it, WA probably had the most complete team of the season (eg good batting and good bowling and decent enough depth) but the injury gods just hammered them. As a result, I don't really see the need to make big changes to the team. Simon Katich seems to be done already, making their middle order: Shaun Marsh, Marcus North, Simon Katich, Adam Voges. Which is, you know, great. It also allows them to bat Mitch Marsh at 7 and their new keeper at 8, which works out pretty good. Oh and Mitchell Johnson might be at 9... I'd like to see Simon Katich throw his name out to open though, just in case Wes Robinson goes back to sucking and Mitch Marsh lifts his batting output or something.

Beer looks like he'll be the reverse spinner in that Indian tour, so they'll need to develop another spinner but outside of that, and the keeper, everything is looking pretty spiffy. They've sought permission to sign Peter Nevill but I really don't see NSW letting him go, given he's contracted. But as above, the new keeper might only need to bat at 8, so they might just stick with their current keepers. They've already got a young batsman-who-can-bowl-spin-a-bit in Tim Armstrong over from NSW.


Surplus players: Travis Birt (ha), Jason Behrendorff, Matt Dixon, Ryan Duffield and so on. If their bowlers stay fit...

VIC:
Wants: Wicket keeper (reserve)
Surplus: Batsmen (general), seamers

Like WA, Victoria look to be developing a pretty good squad and I can't really think of any pressing needs. Ryan Carters didn't shine as Matt Wade's replacement so a reserve keeper to cover Wade is probably the most immediate need. Bowling wise they're pretty set, with about the only big debate to be whether to keep Darren Pattinson on as depth.(no-brainer for me)

With Michael Hill set to be fit again next season I would have thought one of Handscomb/Finch/Hill might be leaving, cause next season Dussey won't be missing as many games 'cause it's only a 5 game series against the WI instead of a tri series, and White and McDonald won't be dropped. So you're looking at Quiney/Rogers/Dussey/White/McDonald in the top 5 for most of the season. Oddly enough however they've been linked with Phil Hughes...?! So I dunno know Rogers might be planning to leave or something. But yeah that's the strangest rumour I've seen so far.

John Hastings and Clint McKay returning to full fitness may mean a couple of seamers leave town. No idea where'll they look for their keeper.

Surplus players: D. Pattinson, Finch, Handscomb, Scott Boland

TAS:
Wants: Top order batsmen (one + depth), middle order batsman (depth), seam bowler (one + depth), spinner (depth)
Surplus: Wicket keeper, all-rounders

A few areas to work on for Tassie, which seems odd for the best performed team over the last two seasons. They def need an opener 'cause steve Cazzulino ain't a very solid option imo, and Cowan will miss the last couple of games next season anyway. Rogers could be an option if he leaves VIC but I think they'll just be looking 'round Sydney grade for an option (Sam Robson.......) and hope Cazzulino can step up. I think Faulkner bats too high at 6, but next season Paine could be back and batting at 6, so I'm not sure if they really need a middle order batsman to come straight into the team, but they def need a depth option to replace Kruger.

Jason Krejza needs to **** off as reserve spinner, although Doherty shouldn't miss the backend of the season next season. So a new depth FC spinner, and they need a starting seamer to replace Hilf, as well as a depth seamer to replace Drew who blows hard. Adam Maher could fill one of those roles though, and some guy up in Sydney grade the other.

I guess they should fight hard to retain Triffet 'cause who knows with Paine. Not much else in the surplus column, and not much linked to Tassie yet.

Surplus players: Tom Triffet A few all-rounders like Johnston too I guess

NSW:
Wants: Depth players of all sorts
Surplus: Talented players of all sorts

A diabolical season for NSW. But I see their role more along the lines of QLD and VIC, you know, losing talented players. This is mainly because a reduced amount of CA contracts hits NSW hardest - Smith, Usman, Hughes, Bollinger, Hauritz will hit NSW's cap hard and I don't really see how everyone can stay, and so notable players from interstate is probably not an option either. But also because I think NSW should be fine losing some under-performing players with a profile like Nic Maddinson and doing a revamp of what they've got (And more importantly, cleaning out the behind the scenes people like the selectors...).

For me retaining Steve Smith and Peter Nevill is the big thing, and making them the new captain and vice captain, and if that means losing Hughes and Usman so be it. Signing Sam Robson to an overseas contract is a no-brainer. I'd try to keep Katich but that's a losing battle it seems.

I think most of the signings will come from within NSW eg youth players and grade players like Chris Tremain who bring low salary cap hits. The two things they might look interstate for is an youngish all-rounder, because they seem to want to play 5 bowlers every game, which is fine when Moises Henriques is playing, but when he's injured...and a reserve keeper because Daniel Smith is Daniel Smith.

Surplus players: Nic Maddinson, Nathan Hauritz (who is a very interesting case, I think he'll stay at NSW), Burt Cockley, Josh Lalor, Sean Abbott, plus the guys like Usman. And Brad Haddin.

I didn't actually proof read this so I hope it isn't too horrible to read.
 
That is a pretty good summary.

Will be interesting to see what happens over the coming months.
 
Well done mate - good thread to start after a cracking season, capped off by a hell of a Shield Final.Wow! Went on Sunday and thought Qld was a good chance but was worried about chasing (like everyone).Couldn't get there today so relied on the stream -our office actually stopped so the cricket nuts could get together to watch. Few beers to celebrate too on the way home which helps!

Hey I can add a little bit too re the 'keeper situation for Queensland. James Peirson is the current Australian U-19 keeper who will go to the World Cup later this year. Word from someone I know close to his club Redlands is that he is every chance of slotting straight in as number two if Dunk opts to look elsewhere.

And a thought - wonder if Trent Copeland would look at heading north perhaps? Certainly a wicket that would suit him - or maybe he might chose to head to the Tigers?

Sure there will be plenty of good drum on this thread anyway for the next few months!
 

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idel one said:
And a thought - wonder if Trent Copeland would look at heading north perhaps? Certainly a wicket that would suit him - or maybe he might chose to head to the Tigers?
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QLD would probably need to lose more seamers than expected for that to happen, and I don't think that's likely. And even then, I don't think a established, straight into the team, player like Copeland would be in QLD's interests. Like, even if Harris leaves, Magoffin, Cutting and McDermott is a really solid attack. So from NSW, a player like Cockley (now alive!) or Lalor is a better suit for QLD.

I was thinking of adding Copeland to the NSW surplus list actually, cause it's hardly out there to suggest Bollinger, Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins might all be fit and pushing for NSW selection at a point next season, and Copeland would be last in line if that happens probably, and Copeland will be aware of that. Tassie would be a great fit, but I think Copeland is aware if he wants to get in the Aus frame he'll have to impress in unfriendly conditions, so a move to the Adl Oval might be more suitable. He could back himself and just stay in NSW too. The main thing is, he needs to improve, add a trick or two etc.


Not a surprise to hear QLD will look to a kid if Ben Dunk leaves. Hartley has plenty of time left in him so attracting a keeper for just a List A spot is always hard, and possibly a waste of a contract spot. I suppose D. Smith could be an option......
 
In no way, shape or form, is Handscomb surplus. He's the best, youngest, most exciting batting prospect Victoria have had since Brad Hodge was in his teens. He hasn't had the hype of Keath, Hill or even Buchanan, but he's better than the lot of them.

You also seem to have a lot of pace bowlers as 'surplus'. IMO, you can never have enough of them considering the subsequent injuries that go with pace bowling.
 
year of the roo said:
In no way, shape or form, is Handscomb surplus. He's the best, youngest, most exciting batting prospect Victoria have had since Brad Hodge was in his teens. He hasn't had the hype of Keath, Hill or even Buchanan, but he's better than the lot of them.

You also seem to have a lot of pace bowlers as 'surplus'. IMO, you can never have enough of them considering the subsequent injuries that go with pace bowling.
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With the surplus players, it's kinda a two way street. Yep, VIC probably doesn't want say Handscomb to go, but with the talent ahead of him, he knows he has a rough time ahead of him just for a spot. So surplus is two things - A) Players teams have no problem letting go and B) Players who will want to go for more opportunity, with another team wanting him. Handscomb falls under B for me, similar to Peter Forrest last season, and many seamers fall under it too. Because there's just a surplus of seamers right now. QLD probably doesn't want a Feldman or Swann to go, but they've just watched B. Drew play in a shield final they couldn't play in....

I certainly don't expect all the names under the surplus tag to go, but I think most if not all of them fall under A or B
 
An out there train of thought...with the possible recruitment of Katich, clearly the WA stakeholders are going hell for leather for a Shield over the next couple of seasons.

Why not recruit Haddin as well? He would be a very good bloke to have coming in at 7, and it wouldn't surprise me if he had a good season free from the burden of expectations that he was feeling in the baggy green. Would also allow Whiteman and Bancroft time to develop, and a Test keeper to learn from!

This is, of course, assuming he is phased out and Wade takes his chance.

Liam Davis
Simon Katich
Shaun Marsh
Marcus North (c)
Adam Voges
Mitch Marsh
Brad Haddin (+)
Mitchell Johnson ;)
Nathan Rimmington
Nathan Coulter-Nile
Michael Beer

Not bad, eh? As I said; it's a gamble - but that team could take it out for sure.

*Cue angry responses from WA fans and 'LOLs' from everyone else*
 
Cap said:
I don't understand how SA cannot land a number of up and coming players rather than the recycled way out players.

Surely offering a bloke like Usman who will have his name up in lights every innings in a lone effort would be enough to convince a player to move.
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Because it's easier said than done, getting star up and coming players. It'll be easier than usual this off-season though. But don't write off 'recycled way out players.' - Steve Magoffin was that 6 months ago...The key is of course, getting good players. Young or old. SA hasn't been very good at that (although D. Christan and M. Klinger are success stories)
 
thorne89, I've had the same thought myself. I think WA taking on Haddin and letting their young keepers learn from him and so forth could be great, and be a net positive for Aus cricket. But I don't think it'll happen. Usually when the test keeper loses his spot/retires, he quits all FC cricket (eg Healy, Gilchrist, Manou when he lost his back-up spot). And Haddin of course has a young family. So yeah want it to happen, probably won't.


I'm having a two way bet btw, cause I don't want Haddin staying on for NSW and forcing Nev to move :p
 
Selective Retention said:
So any chance of Phil Jaques doing a Luke Power? He would be handy for Tas even if he counted as an international player.
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I'd support it. I really think he has something to offer. I'm not sure if he's planning to come back here during the off-season or what, but yep, I want you - or SA or QLD - to do it. Don't think it'll happen though, "give a kid a shot" and all that.



Stuff from the Argus review relating to this which I forgot to mention:
The panel also believes that Australian Cricket must consider innovative ways of dealing with the geographical imbalance of talent resulting from the widely varying populations of States.

Consideration should be given to:

# A loan system at first-class level, perhaps managed by the National Talent Manager

# Mechanisms to encourage States to export underutilised talent, for example:
— State Talent Managers being required to recommend players for transfer at the end of the season where it is unlikely they will be selected by their current State
— Financial incentives for States for each first-class player they produce, regardless of whether the player plays for that State

# Inclusion of a further team or teams in pathway competitions (and/or more flexible use of the ACT, NT and composite COE sides at age level) to ensure the best players in the country are getting an opportunity
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(Page 29-30)

I really hope the loan system comes in. The BigBash makes it perfect, during it, the teams can negotiate loans. Won't come in for this season though I don't think.
 
i'm 100% in favour of a loan system. the idea should be to get the best 66 blokes available out for each round of matches. normally i don't like that sort of stuff in professoional sport, but the sheffield shield is a funny comp in that it's primary interest is for the strength of the national cricket team.

i would just stipulate a few rules

1) can't play for more than 2 teams in a season
2) no loans for the last two rounds and finals

there are a few guys who could really benefit from this, and in any case these are guys that really need to try and get regular first class cricket next season. peter hanscomb, kurtis patterson, jason behrendorff and marcus harris are four young guys straight off the top of my head who are very talented. fwiw i think hanscomb will be very entrenched in the vic line up this time next year.
 

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Not a fan of the loan system.

The greatest strength of the shield generally is the fact the squads play hard at each other. It's important that winning the shield retains some glory for the states so the first class games are always intense. Not link numerous first class compos around the world played at half care factor.

Moving in the off season is fine but not in season, it demeans the competition too much and the players care factor will diminish and the intensity along with it. That would reduce it's ability to prepare players for international cricket more than enhance it.

From a Tassie point of view Im concerned Jackson Bird was on a one year deal... NSW taking him home????
 
NSW won't take Bird. Bollinger, Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins could all playing for NSW at one time. So that should be, Bird won't go back to that shitfight, actually. I think both sides are happy, although NSW will probably ask Tassie "what the hell did you do to Jackson?"

Black Thunder said:
i would just stipulate a few rules

1) can't play for more than 2 teams in a season
2) no loans for the last two rounds and finals
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I think it's why it won't come in this season, it'll take time to get the rules written, make sure you can't exploit the systtem and perhaps most importantly, sort out what does team gets in return for loaning out a player? Money? A player back? Obviously 'managed by National Talent Manager' means the National Talent Manager checks every loan and makes sure there's no really dodgy deals done. but yeah will take time to get it up and running. needs to happen though.

By 'The BigBash makes it perfect, during it, the teams can negotiate loans.' I mean, the BigBash is on at the perfect time for this system. Right bang in the middle of the season where's there's a break happening. This is good is that it allows states to assess their playing stocks. They might be hurt by injures, or an unexpected player being in the national frame or whatever. But it allows them to stock up, and keep the standard high. Of course the obvious example for this season is Tassie after Hilf got back in the test team, they could have said "well s**t, we've lost Adam Maher to injury too, we can't really deal with this....Hey Queensland I can't help but notice...."

I understand CAS79's view point, but personally for me, I'm certain that every time a player goes out on the field, he wants to win. And if he doesn't, it's because he's a lousy person or something, rather than because two weeks ago these guys were my team-mates. I mean, playing against a guy you consider a team mate is rather common in domestic cricket, thanks to grade cricket and now the BigBash. I don't think loan systems will affect players care level or intensity or anything. They get out there, they want to win.

So yeah I really don't think it'll be a problem, unless a player wants to make it a problem.
 
i have thought of that (referring to CAS's post), and i think it's a valid point, but my thought process is take a guy like behrendorff. can't crack the WA team, gets a 2 game loan at South Australia. i reckon he is going to go hell for leather in those two games to show the WA that he is deserving of a spot, or any other state that might throw contract his way with a garuantee of more game time.

i do see your point though but i still reckon it's something well worth exploring. one of the shields great strengths is that because it is only ten games a season most games are played at high intensity and that is something that needs to be maintained for the development of australian cricket.

for mine, a loan system should also have further restrictions that i didn't touch on above. a player can only be loaned once a season for a maximum of one month (so pretty much 2, maybe 3 games)... a team can only have two players in their XI on loan from another state for any given game, and they can only make a maximum of four loans in and four loans out for the season. i would even consider bringing that down to 1 loan player in a team's starting XI for any game, and max 3 loans in and 3 loans out for the season... and as above, no loans for the final two games or final.

that would obviously mean you're not going to have guys going all over the place willy nilly, which i do agree would be a detriment to the competition. under this system players know if they get given a loan opportunity, they've got one month to show what they can do, so that should see them keep their intensity at training and in games.
 
Victoria should have a look at Jackson Bird. I wonder how he enjoyed his time in Melbourne during the BigBash? We will probably see very little of Patto, Wade and will almost always have one of McKay (ODIs) and Siddle (Tests) missing. Hopefully the Duke bounces back strongly next year, but not well enough to warrant a National call-up ;)

Shield:
Rogers
Quiney
Handscomb (wk)
Hussey
White
McDonald
Maxwell
Hastings
McKay/Siddle
Herrick
Holland

50 overs:
Quiney
Finch
Handscomb
Hussey
White
McDonald
Maxwell
Hastings
McKay/Siddle
Herrick
Holland/Boland/Sheridan

Bird would add tremendous depth to the bowling stocks, putting pressure on Boland, Herrick and Holland to keep performing. On the odd occasion that everyone is available, we'll have some serious headaches. This is assuming that Rogers continues (if not we must pursue a Hughes/Khawaja/Jaques type) and that White and Finch bounce back.

If Carters, Keath, Buchanan and Hill start to put it together as well, then LOOK OUT!
 
year of the roo said:
Victoria should have a look at Jackson Bird. I wonder how he enjoyed his time in Melbourne during the BigBash? We will probably see very little of Patto, Wade and will almost always have one of McKay (ODIs) and Siddle (Tests) missing. Hopefully the Duke bounces back strongly next year, but not well enough to warrant a National call-up ;)
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Why would he want to change states/grounds after the year he's just had? :confused:

Would be insane to be a fast bowler wanting out of Tassie.
 
Well

- Mark Cameron
- Beau Casson
- Stuart Clark
- Phil Jaques (kinda)
- Brad Knowles
- Brad Hodge

have already gone. From then, yeah I think D. Harris will probably retire from SA but stick around in the bigbash, Magoffin and Chris Swan might go but I hope not, same with Rogers, Mark Cleary might go, or at least be delisted, same with D. Pattinson. Can't really think of many other people. There's not many 30yos going around nowadays. Rogers should not be allowed to retire.

DrVanNostrand said:
Thanks for the summary. Please keep Pommersbach the hell away from the Bulls.
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If he has his s**t together he'd add massively to the Bulls, who of course need some batsmen, but it's a big if. he was supposed to have moved back in Jan, so he's probably settled down by now which could help
 
Well there's another guy who might retire - Hauritz. He's in a really bizarre spot. For me there's no doubt he's better than SOK, and other spinners going 'round. But SOK is the captain of NSW, so Hauritz is depth here. Although SOK should lose the captaincy for this very reason. You don't make spinners or keepers captain unless they're pretty proven unless you want selection trouble...

Anyway, QLD isn't an option because young leg spinners will always be given first preference in Aus cricket, let alone one who actually puts up results, Cricket Victoria and CA have spent so much time, money and other resources in Jon Holland over the years that now he's actually put up a result or two on the board he's safe for the next 3 seasons, WA has Beer, SA has Lyon, Tassie has Doherty. I think Hauritz is better than Beer and Doherty but obviously... So there's no first choice spot for Hauritz, unless SOK loses the NSW captaincy. And then add in that Hauritz has a cleaning buisness outside of cricket (some people spend their CA contract money on fast cars, Hauritz started a cleaning buisness it seems) and he was always a pretty good T20 spinner, there's a chance he might retire from state cricket and focus on the buisness and T20 cricket.

But I think he'll probably just hang around NSW. Which might mean Luke Doran leaves.
 
Is Rob Cassell still around or has he finally hung them up? Cleary and D Patt will probably go one way or the other. Rogers should definitely stay until a few young guys put their hands up.
 
I kind of hope Hughes goes to Victoria. This board would be absolutely hilarious. I also kind of hope Smith goes to SA, as much as I'd like to keep him. Might help him shed the "NSW goldenboy" stigma and actually get recognised for the ridiculously talented (if a little raw) young player he is.
 
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