List Mgmt. Player re-signings

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Nice - I didn't know that!!

I'm still gonna call him Sincs though!! lol
i dunno its pretty funny calling him jeff at games and have people tell u his name is jack :p:p:p:p
 
Aug 9, 2006
3,261
5,542
Level 2 Bar, Coventry End
AFL Club
St Kilda
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Packers, Detroit Tigers
I've been thinking about unskilful players a bit in recent days because all of the hype/criticism around Delly.

You can boil down every player's traits to two broad categories - endeavour and skill. Contrary to what many people think, in both cases you're born with a natural level, but you can improve that level up to a point. Just like everyone is born with a different level of natural skill, everyone is born with a different level of natural endeavour - the best of them can just push themselves to the wall from an early age.

When we see a player with high skill level and low endeavour, we tend to look at their ceiling. When they play up to their ceiling, we say "see - that's what they can do. That's why we need them." When they play beneath their ceiling, we say "oh, he has so much skill, once he puts it all together, he'll be fantastic."

When we see a player with high endeavour and low skills, we tend to look at their floor. When they play poorly, we say "see - that's what they're like. That's why we can't afford to have them." When they play well, we say "well, he put it together tonight, but you know he's going stuff up again sooner rather than later."

Hence, for example, Cam Shenton gets so much more heat than, say, Spencer White.

Cam Shenton has elite endeavour, the kind of application and effort that he would just have been born with. He probably wrestled his brothers for the extra chop at dinner time. It's a huge asset, and should be seen that way. He has average skills. Whether we can bring them up to a level where he can hold his place in a team that will significantly improve over the next few years is an open question. My guess would be that he won't be able to, but that he'll die trying. And, personally, I find that a very appealing trait.
 
Being entirely blunt, Siposs would be gettign games if he removed his head from his anus to see how finite his time int he game actually is and can be. Once he understands that, he'll have the makings of a moderate to good flanker, so arguably best thing for anyone to do with him at the club is to tell him that he's delisted and piss him off so that he gets that clue. I'm also entirely convinced that Spence chose the wrong club, Gold Coast is more fitting for him sicne he does nto appear to take it as seriously as he should.

how does anyone know if this is still the case?

Unless you know him personally or have talked with him how would you know that he is up himself. especially since he has been injured until now.
 
its just lazy to generalise all people that IMO who think their are better options

The ones who say there are better options are fine it's the ones who question his character or say disrespectful stuff like "s**t" "worst" "hopeless" etc. That's just poor form and lazy. If some one was to analyse his performance and say what was wrong with it that's not really hating is it. Most are happy if someone better takes over but if he plays he should get support. There is no evidence that someone like Acres would do anything any better. It's possible he would get less of it, not dispose of it well and panic under pressure. It might not be as simple as "playing the kids".

At the moment people with more knowledge think he's the best option so maybe a few need to get over it. I think he made one or two mistakes in the last game nearly every other defender made equal amounts of mistakes. Joey when he kicked out did the same thing that Cam did and cost us a goal trying to clear the ball from defence. When the pressure goes up he can over cook it but he also seems to be good at drawing a player to him. It can stuff up but that's modern footy. I personally like high risk high reward more than Lyon's grind outs but that's me.
 
Congratulations to Cam and Dylan. Cam Shenton (on his current development pathway) will eventually become the most admired person on our list, by being the guy who refused to concede to public opinion, and just give up. We are just in the early phase of the ugly duckling syndrome. :) I just don't believe that Cameron has somehow managed to get in the blindspot of Bains, Trout, Frawley and AR. That would make him like some kind of contract Ninja! :eek:
 
how does anyone know if this is still the case?

Unless you know him personally or have talked with him how would you know that he is up himself. especially since he has been injured until now.

This is merely at the fucntions and events I've been to, which have been several, overhearing conversations, metting them personally spending that 5 mins having a coached chat with them whilst they try and circle jerk around phoens to avoid joe public.

Spence came off as a party boy in the AFL for the glam and glitter, to me who takes an analytical approach to most things, he seemed far too lacadasical almost for a successful AFL player.

Siposs came off like Eddie when I met him, in that there is this aura as soon as you meet people when they have a high opinion of themselves and look down on you when you speak to them, like you're beneath them, Sippa left me with that impression.

Now these guys may have changed ways, they can, this is not meant to be a slight to them as people, but fan interaction wise, I've got no time for either of them really.
 
Interesting listening to Bob in this interview, especially around the fact that when he came to us, at first he began to regret the decision, ("Wow, did I make the right choice..."), but that he feels the club has changed dramatically since then.

 

sobraz

Senior List
Aug 18, 2009
242
902
St.Kilda
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Well done to both young men.

In a sense they are battling for the same position. IMO Roberton is pretty much a better version of Shenton in every way. Not a slight on Shents, I very much rate Roberton.

Shenton had written into his current contract an immediate 1 year contract extension if he managed to play 6 senior games this year.
He reached that tally pretty early on, hence the early contract announcement. I believe Minch is the same but may struggle to reach it. Doesn't discount being on the list next year, just doesn't make it certain.

Im not entirely sure, perhaps Robbo was on a similar clause, but Robbo has shown a hell of an upside this season so I think he is seen as far more long term and important, hence the 2 years.
 

Sippa

Premiership Player
Jul 15, 2012
3,216
4,310
AFL Club
St Kilda
In amongst all the Shenton stuff I didn't take the time to say how happy I am with Roberton re signing... When we first got him I wasn't all that excited, saw him as an average player who mite be ok when we are down the bottom but wouldn't really improve us moving forward... He's probably one of our most reliable players now.. Very composed with the footy, assured defensively, smart player.. Feel very confident with him back there for us
 

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This is merely at the fucntions and events I've been to, which have been several, overhearing conversations, metting them personally spending that 5 mins having a coached chat with them whilst they try and circle jerk around phoens to avoid joe public.

Spence came off as a party boy in the AFL for the glam and glitter, to me who takes an analytical approach to most things, he seemed far too lacadasical almost for a successful AFL player.

Siposs came off like Eddie when I met him, in that there is this aura as soon as you meet people when they have a high opinion of themselves and look down on you when you speak to them, like you're beneath them, Sippa left me with that impression.

Now these guys may have changed ways, they can, this is not meant to be a slight to them as people, but fan interaction wise, I've got no time for either of them really.

I have met both several times and Siposs is as nice friendly open a guy you will find. He comes across to me as a big kid who likes a chat and would rather be meeting and greeting than playing almost. Spencer is a very self contained guy and a bit depressive almost. He warms up around the kids and is a big friendly giant around them. He has a sad vibe to me and like Plugger hated being around the crowds. He lost his old man young and there is a sort of melancholy to him...of cause I'm guessing. The opposite to a party boy to me. I guess it all depends on where and when you meet them though. I see Siposs as the guy who would love a bit of celebrity but he is also a realist and very quick to point out all the flaws in his game and how to get back in the seniors.
 
In amongst all the Shenton stuff I didn't take the time to say how happy I am with Roberton re signing... When we first got him I wasn't all that excited, saw him as an average player who mite be ok when we are down the bottom but wouldn't really improve us moving forward... He's probably one of our most reliable players now.. Very composed with the footy, assured defensively, smart player.. Feel very confident with him back there for us

I went to the NAB game versus the Swans when we first picked him up and he was our best player that night IMO. He was excellent in his first season with us and apart from the ankle he has been very solid. I was worried we broke him. We played him on a bad ankle and he did it again. He was close to cooked last year his ankle had about 20% movement.
 
This is merely at the fucntions and events I've been to, which have been several, overhearing conversations, metting them personally spending that 5 mins having a coached chat with them whilst they try and circle jerk around phoens to avoid joe public.

Spence came off as a party boy in the AFL for the glam and glitter, to me who takes an analytical approach to most things, he seemed far too lacadasical almost for a successful AFL player.

Siposs came off like Eddie when I met him, in that there is this aura as soon as you meet people when they have a high opinion of themselves and look down on you when you speak to them, like you're beneath them, Sippa left me with that impression.

Now these guys may have changed ways, they can, this is not meant to be a slight to them as people, but fan interaction wise, I've got no time for either of them really.

why do you think spence comes off as a party boy? what did he do specifically to make you think that?
 

God Save Max King

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 25, 2012
8,098
9,629
AFL Club
St Kilda
Will start by saying sorry for bumping this thread

I was wondering if we could do a similar thing to these re-signings again this year (though obviously to a lesser extent)?

I'd re-sign 10 players if possible:
Billings for 2 more years (end of '19)
Newnes for 1 more year (end of '18)
Longer for 2 more years (end of '18)
Bruce for 3 more years (end of '19)
Goddard for 2 more years (end of '18)
McCartin for 2 more years (end of '18)
Lonie for 1 more year (end of '17)
McKenzie for 2 more years (end of '18)
Weller for 1 more year (end of '17)
Pierce for 1 more year (end of '16)
 
Will start by saying sorry for bumping this thread

I was wondering if we could do a similar thing to these re-signings again this year (though obviously to a lesser extent)?

I'd re-sign 10 players if possible:
Billings for 2 more years (end of '19)
Newnes for 1 more year (end of '18)
Longer for 2 more years (end of '18)
Bruce for 10 more years (end of '25)
Goddard for 2 more years (end of '18)
McCartin for 2 more years (end of '18)
Lonie for 1 more year (end of '17)
McKenzie for 2 more years (end of '18)
Weller for 1 more year (end of '17)
Pierce for 1 more year (end of '16)
fixed

:p:p
 
On a different tack, the rumblings about Spencer might mean it's curtains for him...

Realistically, delistings are forecast a bit - you don't get too many shocks - so anyone OOC this year and the oldies are the ones in the gun. Let's look at them;

Joe Baker-Thomas: potentially a rookie contract, but is still a fair way off. Gone.

Sean Dempster: has previously indicated this will be his last year. Borderline.

Sam Fisher: form excellent, body still an issue. Safe if he wants to be.

Sam Gilbert: still useful. Maybe trade bait, but likely to stay on. Safe.

Jason Holmes: has shown plenty at Sandringham. Will be formally listed IMO. Safe as houses.

Dan Markworth: talented but cursed. May be saved by age and the apparent shallowness of the draft. Safe.

Darren Minchington: showed enough against the Dees to earn a new deal. Safe IMO.

Brenton Payne: will be given another year as a rookie. Has talent. Safe.

Lewis Pierce: still very young and has shown a bit, but behind three others. Potentially rookie re-list. Borderline.

Farren Ray: you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Safe.

Ahmed Saad: will survive comfortably, only question is on which list. Safe.

Adam Schneider: form is solid but has openly said this is his last year. Gone.

Tom Simpkin: made it 30 years too late. Willing, but has been superseded. Gone.

Jack Sinclair: upgrade guaranteed. safer than safe with a safety vest and a cup full of safe sauce. Did I say safe?

Arryn Siposs: has plenty of talent, but injury-prone and apparently lazy. Will he survive? Borderline.

Spencer White: I hope the penny drops, but the jungle drums are beating. Gone.

So for those keeping score, that's one gone from the Rookie list - they don't 'count' as far as the draft goes - two definitely gone IMO from the main List and another three more on the precipice, though for different reasons.

We're obligated to take 3 picks in the ND (I think), and that's all I think we'll do. A bit will probably depend on whether we trade someone in again.

Thoughts?
 
Jan 14, 2012
36,885
90,449
The River Murray
AFL Club
St Kilda
Will start by saying sorry for bumping this thread

I was wondering if we could do a similar thing to these re-signings again this year (though obviously to a lesser extent)?

I'd re-sign 10 players if possible:
Billings for 2 more years (end of '19)
Newnes for 1 more year (end of '18)
Longer for 2 more years (end of '18)
Bruce for 3 more years (end of '19)
Goddard for 2 more years (end of '18)
McCartin for 2 more years (end of '18)
Lonie for 1 more year (end of '17)
McKenzie for 2 more years (end of '18)
Weller for 1 more year (end of '17)
Pierce for 1 more year (end of '16)

I'd be signing Lonie in a longer deal.
 
Jan 14, 2012
36,885
90,449
The River Murray
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St Kilda
On a different tack, the rumblings about Spencer might mean it's curtains for him...

Realistically, delistings are forecast a bit - you don't get too many shocks - so anyone OOC this year and the oldies are the ones in the gun. Let's look at them;

Joe Baker-Thomas: potentially a rookie contract, but is still a fair way off. Gone.

Sean Dempster: has previously indicated this will be his last year. Borderline.

Sam Fisher: form excellent, body still an issue. Safe if he wants to be.

Sam Gilbert: still useful. Maybe trade bait, but likely to stay on. Safe.

Jason Holmes: has shown plenty at Sandringham. Will be formally listed IMO. Safe as houses.

Dan Markworth: talented but cursed. May be saved by age and the apparent shallowness of the draft. Safe.

Darren Minchington: showed enough against the Dees to earn a new deal. Safe IMO.

Brenton Payne: will be given another year as a rookie. Has talent. Safe.

Lewis Pierce: still very young and has shown a bit, but behind three others. Potentially rookie re-list. Borderline.

Farren Ray: you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Safe.

Ahmed Saad: will survive comfortably, only question is on which list. Safe.

Adam Schneider: form is solid but has openly said this is his last year. Gone.

Tom Simpkin: made it 30 years too late. Willing, but has been superseded. Gone.

Jack Sinclair: upgrade guaranteed. safer than safe with a safety vest and a cup full of safe sauce. Did I say safe?

Arryn Siposs: has plenty of talent, but injury-prone and apparently lazy. Will he survive? Borderline.

Spencer White: I hope the penny drops, but the jungle drums are beating. Gone.

So for those keeping score, that's one gone from the Rookie list - they don't 'count' as far as the draft goes - two definitely gone IMO from the main List and another three more on the precipice, though for different reasons.

We're obligated to take 3 picks in the ND (I think), and that's all I think we'll do. A bit will probably depend on whether we trade someone in again.

Thoughts?

I think we'll draft 3, upgrade Sinclair and hopefully pick up a recruit or two.

That's at least 5 spots we need to open up. I can see us putting Peirce and/or Markworth back to the rookie list.
 
I think we'll draft 3, upgrade Sinclair and hopefully pick up a recruit or two.

That's at least 5 spots we need to open up. I can see us putting Peirce and/or Markworth back to the rookie list.
At this point I think Simpkin, Siposs, White and Pierce are gone from the Senior list, with Pierce being rookied, so that's four.

I've got a sneaky feeling we'll trade someone out, but Marky would have to be nervous.
 
On a different tack, the rumblings about Spencer might mean it's curtains for him...

Realistically, delistings are forecast a bit - you don't get too many shocks - so anyone OOC this year and the oldies are the ones in the gun. Let's look at them;

Joe Baker-Thomas: potentially a rookie contract, but is still a fair way off. Gone.

Sean Dempster: has previously indicated this will be his last year. Borderline.

Sam Fisher: form excellent, body still an issue. Safe if he wants to be.

Sam Gilbert: still useful. Maybe trade bait, but likely to stay on. Safe.

Jason Holmes: has shown plenty at Sandringham. Will be formally listed IMO. Safe as houses.

Dan Markworth: talented but cursed. May be saved by age and the apparent shallowness of the draft. Safe.

Darren Minchington: showed enough against the Dees to earn a new deal. Safe IMO.

Brenton Payne: will be given another year as a rookie. Has talent. Safe.

Lewis Pierce: still very young and has shown a bit, but behind three others. Potentially rookie re-list. Borderline.

Farren Ray: you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Safe.

Ahmed Saad: will survive comfortably, only question is on which list. Safe.

Adam Schneider: form is solid but has openly said this is his last year. Gone.

Tom Simpkin: made it 30 years too late. Willing, but has been superseded. Gone.

Jack Sinclair: upgrade guaranteed. safer than safe with a safety vest and a cup full of safe sauce. Did I say safe?

Arryn Siposs: has plenty of talent, but injury-prone and apparently lazy. Will he survive? Borderline.

Spencer White: I hope the penny drops, but the jungle drums are beating. Gone.

So for those keeping score, that's one gone from the Rookie list - they don't 'count' as far as the draft goes - two definitely gone IMO from the main List and another three more on the precipice, though for different reasons.

We're obligated to take 3 picks in the ND (I think), and that's all I think we'll do. A bit will probably depend on whether we trade someone in again.

Thoughts?
Baker-Thomas will stay as a class B rookie. I woild guess Saad stays on the rookie list unless he starts playing to be b22 towards the end of the year. Rest are realistic.
 
Sep 18, 2011
17,050
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Melbourne
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On a different tack, the rumblings about Spencer might mean it's curtains for him...

Realistically, delistings are forecast a bit - you don't get too many shocks - so anyone OOC this year and the oldies are the ones in the gun. Let's look at them;

Joe Baker-Thomas: potentially a rookie contract, but is still a fair way off. Gone.

Sean Dempster: has previously indicated this will be his last year. Borderline.

Sam Fisher: form excellent, body still an issue. Safe if he wants to be.

Sam Gilbert: still useful. Maybe trade bait, but likely to stay on. Safe.

Jason Holmes: has shown plenty at Sandringham. Will be formally listed IMO. Safe as houses.

Dan Markworth: talented but cursed. May be saved by age and the apparent shallowness of the draft. Safe.

Darren Minchington: showed enough against the Dees to earn a new deal. Safe IMO.

Brenton Payne: will be given another year as a rookie. Has talent. Safe.

Lewis Pierce: still very young and has shown a bit, but behind three others. Potentially rookie re-list. Borderline.

Farren Ray: you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Safe.

Ahmed Saad: will survive comfortably, only question is on which list. Safe.

Adam Schneider: form is solid but has openly said this is his last year. Gone.

Tom Simpkin: made it 30 years too late. Willing, but has been superseded. Gone.

Jack Sinclair: upgrade guaranteed. safer than safe with a safety vest and a cup full of safe sauce. Did I say safe?

Arryn Siposs: has plenty of talent, but injury-prone and apparently lazy. Will he survive? Borderline.

Spencer White: I hope the penny drops, but the jungle drums are beating. Gone.

So for those keeping score, that's one gone from the Rookie list - they don't 'count' as far as the draft goes - two definitely gone IMO from the main List and another three more on the precipice, though for different reasons.

We're obligated to take 3 picks in the ND (I think), and that's all I think we'll do. A bit will probably depend on whether we trade someone in again.

Thoughts?
Agree with most of it, except Minch. Can't see how his Melbourne game ensures another contract. Didn't do much at all.
 

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