Plibersek - Opposition arse clown

[Arbuckle]

If you take the politics out of this then you have a Labour DP making quite reasonable comments that are in step with the 'best current advice ' on this issue-worldwide. Or you can look at the behaviour of the libs that is out of favour with all relevant bodies. So it amazes me how some think Plib can be in the wrong here.

Oh, no, come on. I mean seriously. Not this (incorrect) crap yet again? For crying out loud; why do you guys even try on this rubbish when it's so plainly wrong and discredited? Surely you can come up with something more convincing and intelligent than this, can't you?

Don't know what you are referring to re Gough sorry.

I suspect pretty strongly now that you're just a troll completely wasting my time. But, just to humour you once more, read posts #315 and #316 on this thread. Then you might understand the context of my comments in the first place, and that the person you should be criticising for politicising such an issue is the guy who posts on here with a username of 'Gough' rather than me.

 

[romeoh]

Oh, no, come on. I mean seriously. Not this (incorrect) crap yet again? For crying out loud; why do you guys even try on this rubbish when it's so plainly wrong and discredited? Surely you can come up with something more convincing and intelligent than this, can't you?



I suspect pretty strongly now that you're just a troll completely wasting my time. But, just to humour you once more, read posts #315 and #316 on this thread. Then you might understand the context of my comments in the first place, and that the person you should be criticising for politicising such an issue is the guy who posts on here with a username of 'Gough' rather than me.

Calm down old thing. Went back to 315 etc -still don't know what you are talking about-that is between you and Gough and not to do with me in any case.
Re your first point, if you are seriously suggesting that Plibersek's view has been 'wrong and discredited'-is that what you are talking about? Then you are very uninformed and my advice is go and do some research. There is ignorance and there is ignorance and you are a fair way back if that is what you are saying.

 

[Arbuckle]

Calm down old thing. Went back to 315 etc -still don't know what you are talking about-that is between you and Gough and not to do with me in any case.

Ok. So you're definitely trolling. Because no-one could possibly be as stupid as you're making yourself out to be time after time after time.

Re your first point, if you are seriously suggesting that Plibersek's view has been 'wrong and discredited'-is that what you are talking about? Then you are very uninformed and my advice is go and do some research. There is ignorance and there is ignorance and you are a fair way back if that is what you are saying.

You know what my argument is. Because you've clearly already read it earlier in this thread. I suggest, very strongly, that you now leave me alone and stop deliberately trying to needle me and wind me up. Cheers.

 

[romeoh]

Ok. So you're definitely trolling. Because no-one could possibly be as stupid as you're making yourself out to be time after time after time.



You know what my argument is. Because you've clearly already read it earlier in this thread. I suggest, very strongly, that you now leave me alone and stop deliberately trying to needle me and wind me up. Cheers.

Give it a spell Arbuckle. I have barely even noticed your posts to be honest and have no idea of your line and certainly can't be bothered going back and checking 'your stuff'.
Don't think I am stupid, but pretty sure you are showing poor manners.
Goodo.

 

[Arbuckle]

Give it a spell Arbuckle. I have barely even noticed your posts to be honest and have no idea of your line and certainly can't be bothered going back and checking 'your stuff'.

Stop being such a goose (and a liar), seriously. You've even been responding to my posts directly - check out post #237, for instance. So much for not noticing my posts and not being aware what I've been saying. Could you be any more transparent?

Now, again, kindly leave me alone. I'm genuinely not interested in playing along with your undergraduate crap and wasting time with it any more, and I'm sure others must feel the same as well.

 

[romeoh]

Stop being such a goose (and a liar), seriously. You've even been responding to my posts directly - check out post #237, for instance. So much for not noticing my posts and not being aware what I've been saying. Could you be any more transparent?

Now, again, kindly leave me alone. I'm genuinely not interested in playing along with your crap and wasting time with it any more, and I'm sure others must feel the same as well.

Haha toughen up princess -237 -like a week ago-do you think I keep a record of who I respond to?
I did notice when i went back that you were just as abusive to other posters as you are to me, so that is some solace i suppose.
Also did notice your line and yep-you are quite ill informed- the head of the AMA, the head of MSF,( an organization, at the forefront of the fight, that is on record as very critical of our line) other international medical bodies, the heads of Britain and USA, the govts of the relevant countries etc etc all follow the Plibersek line. Tone and his puppets are the only ones in the world with our line. You need to keep up.
No need to speak for others you adorable thing.
And yep, as tough as it will be to bring this happy saga to end, lets leave it there.

 

[AM]

They are all **** ups. I usually vote Libs but I will not be voting for them or Labor again.

Looks like Clive has another vote then.

 

[Japes]

Tone and his puppets are the only ones in the world with our line.

Can you please explain this to me, in some more detail?

Because I'm afraid I don't get it. Or I must have missed something. Admittedly I've just come back to Australia very recently after a long period overseas, but I don't get how what Abbott is saying or doing is any different to most other world leaders on Ebola.

I'm also not sure what's wrong with asking for a guarantee that there will be some proper safeguards put in place for any Australian health workers who might go to West Africa. Or have I missed something obvious there as well?

 

[romeoh]

Can you please explain this to me, in some more detail?

Because I'm afraid I don't get it. Or I must have missed something. Admittedly I've just come back to Australia very recently after a long period overseas, but I don't get how what Abbott is saying or doing is any different to most other world leaders on Ebola.

I'm also not sure what's wrong with asking for a guarantee that there will be some proper safeguards put in place for any Australian health workers who might go to West Africa. Or have I missed something obvious there as well?

Other world leaders from countries with a similar capacity to help/our closest 'allies', and who like us have been asked for people on the ground( Obama and Cameron e.g.) are in fact doing something quite different from us -they are sending people as MSF has requested.
The guarantee of evacuation is of course important but MSF has managed to successfully evacuate people and it is impossible to believe that they would not provide the same situation that is available to Britain and USA. If an Australia needed an emergency evacuation, a phone call from Tone to Cameron would no doubt be favorably met and the person would be getting best care in Britain within 6 hours.
We are in an extremely able position financially , equipment wise etc to respond effectively I would have thought.

 

[Japes]

Other world leaders from countries with a similar capacity to help/our closest 'allies', and who like us have been asked for people on the ground( Obama and Cameron e.g.) are in fact doing something quite different from us -they are sending people as MSF has requested.

I haven't seen that Cameron and Obama have sent people there. Have you got some links, please? Would be grateful if you could provide examples of other leaders doing so too, please? Also, surely the flight times from the US and UK to Africa are a lot shorter than from somewhere like Sydney? I've read that that's one of the key issues (ie the massive logistical problems of such an operation from here), isn't it?

The guarantee of evacuation is of course important but MSF has managed to successfully evacuate people

But hasn't one of their own people now gone back to New York carrying the virus - and doesn't that highlight one of the very problems Abbott potentially faces? Can only imagine how he'd no doubt be pilloried if a health worker brought the disease back to Australia.

If an Australia needed an emergency evacuation, a phone call from Tone to Cameron would no doubt be favorably met and the person would be getting best care in Britain within 6 hours.

Hard to know in a situation like this. I think I'd want some definite commitment beforehand rather than assume and/or hope for the best in a rapidly unfolding crisis situation.

We are in an extremely able position financially , equipment wise etc to respond effectively I would have thought.

Didn't we recently offer even more money than the tens of millions we've already given - only for MSF to shove it back in our faces and effectively tell us to get lost?

 

[romeoh]

I haven't seen that Cameron and Obama have sent people there. Have you got some links, please? Would be grateful if you could provide examples of other leaders doing so too, please? Also, surely the flight times from the US and UK to Africa are a lot shorter than from somewhere like Sydney? I've read that that's one of the key issues (ie the massive logistical problems of such an operation from here), isn't it?



But hasn't one of their own people now gone back to New York carrying the virus - and doesn't that highlight one of the very problems Abbott potentially faces? Can only imagine how he'd no doubt be pilloried if a health worker brought the disease back to Australia.



Hard to know in a situation like this. I think I'd want some definite commitment beforehand rather than assume and/or hope for the best in a rapidly unfolding crisis situation.



Didn't we recently offer even more money than the tens of millions we've already given - only for MSF to shove it back in our faces and effectively tell us to get lost?

Pretty well documented that Britain ( 750 med vols + troops, and beds etc) USA( 4000 troops) have sent or pledged and in process of sending military and medical personnel( you can google as well as I can). Read somewhere that China has sent 200 people. Did see a link somewhere that listed all the 'pledges'. Will have a hunt for that tomorrow. Or you can. Plenty sending money, fewer sending people.
Of course there is chance that someone will get infected, but we accept that soldiers get injured, or worse in a war, what is the difference really? And that is not justification for not helping when asked. All the experts say it has to be stopped in Africa and they need help there now to do that. And they need people to do that. So it would seem that the greater chance of stopping it getting here, depends on hands on deck there now.
In the unlikely event that an infected health worker was sent back here ( as opposed to England-far more likely), they would be in quarantine/special hospital set up), so what is the big deal re general public?
Have no doubt that Cameron would assist.
Yep, we have been generous with money but MSF has specifically asked for people.

 

[scon]

Plibersek suggesting we make every effort while we have a chance to contain it;before containment is no longer an option.
What an arseclown.

If you've got the pill inside 50 and there's defenders about to hammer you,you've got to be quick, decisive,make a good execute well.Judgement and foresight is called for.
This is more of a defensive flood situation but same principles.
Sitting on your hands is not an option.
The info is readily available.It's common knowledge
Money won't cut it with this one.
It's a ticking bomb;a day delayed is a day lost,and tomorrow the problem's is worse.

 

[Japes]

Pretty well documented that Britain ( 750 med vols + troops, and beds etc) USA( 4000 troops) have sent or pledged and in process of sending military and medical personnel( you can google as well as I can).

Ok, thanks. Wasn't aware of it. But I haven't been following it in minute detail. All of that said, when I did just google it, I found that there's all sorts of confusion and conflicting opinions breaking out in the USA now that some of their health workers are indeed getting sick. I would have thought that what's happening there in that respect perfectly vindicates Abbott's position. Of course it would be nice to be as humanitarian and altruistic as possible but it's also foolish and irresponsible to turn a blind eye to the very serious risks that are clearly associated with people going there at the moment.

All the experts say it has to be stopped in Africa and they need help there now to do that.

With respect, "all" the experts are not saying to send Australians there. I've seen it argued already on this thread, so won't go back down the path in great detail, but Australia's senior health advisers seem to be saying the exact opposite to that at the moment.

Yep, we have been generous with money but MSF has specifically asked for people.

Frankly, MSF have no right to expect or demand anything from us if they refuse millions of dollars in aid from us. That's absolutely disgusting, in my view, and I'm sure there are no end of humanitarian causes or organisations who would happily and respectfully receive such assistance if they were offered it. As they should.

 

[scon]

Australia's senior health advisors largely concur with Plibersek and MSF,
This article is a fortnight old in a game which requires urgent action;it is a case of the quick or the dead.
Govt running out of excuses on Ebola | Australian Medical ...

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

With respect, "all" the experts are not saying to send Australians there. I've seen it argued already on this thread, so won't go back down the path in great detail, but Australia's senior health advisers seem to be saying the exact opposite to that at the moment.

Mate - you're not doing anything in detail. You are spinning the situation to try and paint the Liberals in the best light possible.

Did you consider the great concern you have for western health workers who want to go help, may also be extended to the people currently dieing of Ebola?

 

[Japes]

Australia's senior health advisors largely concur with Plibersek and MSF,
This article is a fortnight old in a game which requires urgent action;it is a case of the quick or the

The AMA is a union with its own views on many political issues. It is also not a public body and is not comprised of the "senior health advisors" of the kind I am talking about. I'm talking about the officials in our bureaucracy/public service.

If you're going to bring the AMA into it in any case, then why not also quote more recent comments from their former head, Kerryn Phelps? She's hardly ever been a supporter of the Coalition afaik, but she has praised Dutton for his approach and savaged Plibersek for hers.

 

[Japes]

Mate - you're not doing anything in detail. You are spinning the situation to try and paint the Liberals in the best light possible.

Did you consider the great concern you have for western health workers who want to go help, may also be extended to the people currently dieing of Ebola?

Pardon? Why does this thread constantly need people to bully and gang up on someone who happens to ask some questions or suggest (oh my goodness, how dare someone even hint at it!) that Abbott might be doing the right thing?

Btw, I'm also not your "mate" or the "mate" of anyone who seems to want to do nothing more than create some personal sh!tfight for the sake of it. Save it for someone who actually wants to have some really childish slanging match. I don't.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Pardon? Why does this thread constantly need people to bully and gang up on someone who happens to ask some questions or suggest (oh my goodness, how dare someone even hint at it!) that Abbott might be doing the right thing?

Turn it up. Your language is not 'hinting' at all (see above and below) and shows that your initial attempts at making it sound like you were just asking naive questions were spin as well. Funny how sensitive Coalition supporters are when challenged, but they do love to play the victim.

only for MSF to shove it back in our faces and effectively tell us to get lost?

Australia's senior health advisers seem to be saying the exact opposite to that at the moment.

Frankly, MSF have no right to expect or demand anything from us if they refuse millions of dollars in aid from us. That's absolutely disgusting, in my view

If you're going to bring the AMA into it in any case, then why not also quote more recent comments from their former head, Kerryn Phelps? She's hardly ever been a supporter of the Coalition afaik, but she has praised Dutton for his approach and savaged Plibersek for hers.

 

[scon]

Wasn't worried about the politics more emphasising the critical nature of timing and action Japes

 

[Japes]

Turn it up. Your language is not 'hinting' at all (see above and below) and shows that your initial attempts at making it sound like you were just asking naive questions were spin as well.

Good grief. Why on Earth are you so angry and personal about everything?

One of them, obviously, is taking things way too literally. But I have absolutely no insight into whatever the rest of your problems are. Please take it up with someone who's qualified to deal with your issues - and spare me from them, thanks.

 

[Japes]

Wasn't worried about the politics more emphasising the critical nature of timing and action Japes

Yep, sure scon. I think we might be talking at cross purposes. I was just observing that Abbott/Dutton/Bishop are obviously getting advice from well qualified and trusted people who are telling them it's not a good idea to send people there. At least for now, anyway.

 

[scon]

WA has a medical professional who has recently returned from Sierra Leone.He took a month's leave from one of Perth's large hospitals and went over to "man up" as he put it.
This bloke was unambiguous in his assessment that the moment is now and needs to be owned.We must put personnel there post haste.
He was interviewed on the ABC on Oct 17th,don't recall his name but he is a WHO trainer/instructor on the management of infectious diseases and the logistics of pandemic control.
He said get in there with numbers now or it will be in a capital near you very soon.Mentioned that there were about 8000 Philippinos working in that area and it would spread around the world if we did not commit personnel.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Good grief. Why on Earth are you so angry and personal about everything?

One of them, obviously, is taking things way too literally. But I have absolutely no insight into whatever the rest of your problems are. Please take it up with someone who's qualified to deal with your issues - and spare me from them, thanks.

So you try to frame me as 'angry and personal about everything' by being angry and personal about me? Genius!

I'm not sure what part of your comments are metaphoric and I have incorrectly taken them 'way too literally' but rest assured I won't be seeing a psychologist on the back of your ad hominem arguments. But good on you for thinking questioning someone's mental state was a worthwhile thing to do in defense of our Government's slow response to Ebola.

 

[Japes]

WA has a medical professional who has recently returned from Sierra Leone.He took a month's leave from one of Perth's large hospitals and went over to "man up" as he put it.

I don't have a problem with any of that. But I think, for every one of him there is out there, you'll easily find another person with a quite different opinion of what should be done. Especially when it comes to very specific detail about what should best happen.

 

[pazza]

WA has a medical professional who has recently returned from Sierra Leone.He took a month's leave from one of Perth's large hospitals and went over to "man up" as he put it.
This bloke was unambiguous in his assessment that the moment is now and needs to be owned.We must put personnel there post haste.
He was interviewed on the ABC on Oct 17th,don't recall his name but he is a WHO trainer/instructor on the management of infectious diseases and the logistics of pandemic control.
He said get in there with numbers now or it will be in a capital near you very soon.Mentioned that there were about 8000 Philippinos working in that area and it would spread around the world if we did not commit personnel.

Pertinent.