Roast Poor Crowd Turnout Last Night

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Ant85 said:
When the three most popular teams in Victoria are missing finals, that's bound to happen.

We're at least on the right path that should see us playing finals footy relatively soon. But the collapse of both Carlton ...
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Not so sure Carlton could be counted amongst "the three most popular teams in Victoria" these days
 
Ant85 said:
When the three most popular teams in Victoria are missing finals, that's bound to happen.

We're at least on the right path that should see us playing finals footy relatively soon. But the collapse of both Carlton and Essendon, at the same time, is going to hurt the AFL and Victorian footy for a few years to come.

But as noted in this thread, Melbournian habits have also changed. I would always attend games, even between 1995-1999, but football was long the weekend ritual for most Melbournians. Not so anymore as the city has developed and there's a variety of entertainment options on weekends. Added to that is the commercialisation of clubs, and the conversion of clubs from "communities" where community identities were strong and compelled consistent support to soulless business entities.

I support Collingwood because I, like many of us, was born into a Collingwood "community". I don't think the club really represents that, but that's what the AFL wanted when it forced clubs to go down the money-making path and packed us all into two stadiums.

I really admire how European soccer (English football in particular) has been able to combine the demands of big business and commercialisation with the need to retain the spirit and community identities of their clubs. The AFL, copying every leaf out of the NFL/NBA book with complete disregard to the cultural differences in our game, has failed shockingly at this.

I went to an ice hockey game in the US earlier in the year, and I got a fair idea of where the AFL is heading. Bright lights, flashing screens, non-stop advertising at games, constant artificial entertainment. It was like being at a circus. I came back to Australia, and saw the AFL had adopted the flashing screens, constant advertising, artificial entertainment and loud music.

The best week of viewing live football this year was when Phil Walsh passed and there was dead silence, none of this entertainment rubbish, save for the atmosphere generated by the fans themselves. The AFL has lost complete touch with its supporters - at least its Victorian ones anyway.

This turned into a bit of a long rant, apologies.
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How do you think we can improve things going forward?

What could Collingwood do to foster more of a community spirit?
 

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Kappa said:
They've been s**t for a decade, if they became a top 4 team again they would almost be as big as us in terms of members and crowds, similar to what we're seeing with Richmond now.
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They got less than 50K on the back of "difficult to see us losing a game this season" :p
 
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76woodenspooners said:
Not so sure Carlton could be counted amongst "the three most popular teams in Victoria" these days
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I still do. The past 15 years has been the worst in the club's entire history, and may hurt them in new generation support (like Melbourne) if they don't turn it around quickly. But even in the past 15 years, they have regularly been in the top 3 most attended games with Collingwood and Essendon

76woodenspooners said:
How do you think we can improve things going forward?

What could Collingwood do to foster more of a community spirit?
Click to expand...

That's a tricky one. I feel Collingwood's morph into a soulless enterprise is symptomatic of how the AFL has directed the competition, so can Collingwood do anything independent notwithstanding a revamp in the AFL's approach? I think the issue is greater than just us. The AFL is bent on Americanising our game, maybe to attract US viewers in the long-term? I'm not sure what the reasoning is for the AFL's obsession with trying to emulate American sports management.

As for Collingwood itself, it hurt the community when it not only left Victoria Park, but completely abandoned it for years until the VFL started playing its games there. There was an ambition to become the biggest club in the land, which is great, I do support the move, but it could've been handled better. The community, I felt, was left behind in the Vic Park that was left to rot.

Having Vic Park meant Collingwood had a location. Abbotsford and Collingwood, these neighbourhoods formed the geographic heart and soul of the club, and that's important for a sense of community. I grew up in the northwest, Essendon territory, and when they won the flag in 2000, Mount Alexander Road was covered in red and black everything for the entire off-season (as awful as it was). When we won the flag in 2010, there wasn't anything of the kind in Smith St. Instead, we went to Gosch's Paddock for our celebrations (!!).

How do you reclaim something that was built for over 100 years and tossed away without a thought?

The club's trying to recreate the Victoria Park spirit by adopting the Ponsford Stand as "our stand", but at the moment the lack of community stems from the club's outlook. It views its supporters as cash cows, before a community, and that entire outlook first needs to change. It also needs to re-invest into recreating that geographic heartland, in Collingwood/Abbotsford, working with the local council, Vic Park etc.
 
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Ant85 said:
That's a tricky one. I feel Collingwood's morph into a soulless enterprise is symptomatic of how the AFL has directed the competition, so can Collingwood do anything independent of a revamp in the AFL's approach? I think the issue is greater than just us. The AFL is bent on Americanising our game, maybe to attract US viewers in the long-term? I'm not sure what the reasoning is for the AFL's obsession with trying to emulate American sports management.

As for Collingwood itself, it hurt the community when it not only left Victoria Park, but completely abandoned it for years until the VFL started playing its games there. There was an ambition to become the biggest club in the land, which is great, I do support the move, but it could've been handled better. The community, I felt, was left behind in the Vic Park that was left to rot.

Having Vic Park meant Collingwood had a location. Abbotsford and Collingwood, these neighbourhoods formed the geographic heart and soul of the club, and that's important for a sense of community. I grew up in the northwest, Essendon territory, and when they won the flag in 2000, Mount Alexander Road was covered in red and black everything for the entire off-season (as awful as it was). When we won the flag in 2010, there wasn't anything of the kind in Smith St. Instead, we went to Gosch's Paddock for our celebrations (!!).

How do you reclaim something that was built for over 100 years and tossed away without a thought?

The club's trying to recreate the Victoria Park spirit by adopting the Ponsford Stand as "our stand", but at the moment the lack of community stems from the club's outlook. It views its supporters as cash cows, before a community, and that entire outlook first needs to change. It also needs to re-invest into recreating that geographic heartland, in Collingwood/Abbotsford, working with the local council, Vic Park etc.
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Excellent points :thumbsu:

To build on what you have written ...

... There are hundreds of thousands of random strangers, people who you nor I have never met before ...

... kids, teachers, miners, lawyers, retirees, nurses, homeless, ..

... and it is so easy to connect:

How do you reckon Bucks is doing?

Reckon we'll be back in the finals next year?

Who do you reckon is the most exciting kid on our list?

How many years do you reckon Swanny has left in him?

...

How powerful is that, the ability to have a meaningful conversation with a random stranger? What other forum is that possible on such a huge scale?

...

I think a good thing for the club to do is to give some thought to the supporter demographics and how to connect with them.

It starts with the 4ish to 10ish year olds ... The age the kids pick their footy club. Kids can be quite fickle at that age - how to engage with those kids, and make them stick with Collingwood? The footy clinics are a great initiative, but they're not very scalable. Maybe the media department needs to consider a footy program for the kids?

Then it moves onto the 11ish to around 20 year olds ... These kids are following their heroes. This age group typically is catered for by the Jamie Elliott and Scott Pendlebury interviews. These kids are learning the game, what's a press? How to kick a torpedo? How to kick a banana? Stoppage strategies?

As the demographics get older, the interest starts to get quite tribal, interest in community ...

And then the older folk have an interest in the administration of the club (look at the average age of the folks who attend AGM's) and they often have an interest in club history.

Think of your own journey as a supporter and how that's changed.

The club's media department have improved significantly over the last few years, but is their work appealing to the wide demographic of supporters? I think it's definitely improving, but there remains some significant opportunities.
 
76woodenspooners said:
Excellent points :thumbsu:

To build on what you have written ...

... There are hundreds of thousands of random strangers, people who you nor I have never met before ...

... kids, teachers, miners, lawyers, retirees, nurses, homeless, ..

... and it is so easy to connect:

How do you reckon Bucks is doing?

Reckon we'll be back in the finals next year?

Who do you reckon is the most exciting kid on our list?

How many years do you reckon Swanny has left in him?

...

How powerful is that, the ability to have a meaningful conversation with a random stranger? What other forum is that possible on such a huge scale?

...

I think a good thing for the club to do is to give some thought to the supporter demographics and how to connect with them.

It starts with the 4ish to 10ish year olds ... The age the kids pick their footy club. Kids can be quite fickle at that age - how to engage with those kids, and make them stick with Collingwood? The footy clinics are a great initiative, but they're not very scalable. Maybe the media department needs to consider a footy program for the kids?

Then it moves onto the 11ish to around 20 year olds ... These kids are following their heroes. This age group typically is catered for by the Jamie Elliott and Scott Pendlebury interviews. These kids are learning the game, what's a press? How to kick a torpedo? How to kick a banana? Stoppage strategies?

As the demographics get older, the interest starts to get quite tribal, interest in community ...

And then the older folk have an interest in the administration of the club (look at the average age of the folks who attend AGM's) and they often have an interest in club history.

Think of your own journey as a supporter and how that's changed.

The club's media department have improved significantly over the last few years, but is their work appealing to the wide demographic of supporters? I think it's definitely improving, but there remains some significant opportunities.
Click to expand...

Sure, we're dealing with a new age where it's much easier to connect. These forums, social media, are great at maintaining a sense of community.

Engaging with kids will come when the AFL re-introduces zones, which I think will help bring soul back to the game and redevelop that sense of belonging/tribalism that we're losing at the moment.

But Collingwood needs a geographic "home". Olympic Blvd isn't a "home", it's just where our state-of-the-art facilities are located and in prime real estate so our club can boast about being the biggest Victorian club, situated next to the nation's greatest sporting arenas.

It might be worth reinvesting back into Vic Park, maybe move some social/member facilities there, hold events there, bring the Collingwood community back to Collingwood, as a starter to reengaging with the local community there, which has become gentrified and detached from footy.
 
Back when we were at Vic Park most employees also supported the Club so they had an invested interest in the "soul" of the club. I know we had financial issues in the late 90's as we did in the mid 80's but those issues cannot be blamed on the Employees but rather the Board(90's) and Committee(80's).

For most people working at the Club now it's just a job and that comes across as that in their attitude toward Maintaining the Clubs soul. We should have Collingwood people running Collingwood, who remembers the Bistro and compare that to the corporate canteen we have now. That is just one example. For those who say we're better off not having "supporters" employed, should that go to the top as well and our Next President be a Non Pies supporter.
It's a ridiculous notion isn't it
 
Ant85 said:
Sure, we're dealing with a new age where it's much easier to connect. These forums, social media, are great at maintaining a sense of community.

Engaging with kids will come when the AFL re-introduces zones, which I think will help bring soul back to the game and redevelop that sense of belonging/tribalism that we're losing at the moment.

But Collingwood needs a geographic "home". Olympic Blvd isn't a "home", it's just where our state-of-the-art facilities are located and in prime real estate so our club can boast about being the biggest Victorian club, situated next to the nation's greatest sporting arenas.

It might be worth reinvesting back into Vic Park, maybe move some social/member facilities there, hold events there, bring the Collingwood community back to Collingwood, as a starter to reengaging with the local community there, which has become gentrified and detached from footy.
Click to expand...
From what I've read from your posts in this thread, I can say one thing "old men don't like change."

I'm not sure if you're an old man or not, but one thing you have to accept is that the AFL is a changing game. The way the game is being played is always going to be different. Accept that. You also have to know that AFL attendances are higher than ever. 1 in 20 Australians have a membership with a club. Add on the AFL memberships as well and their are even more supporters. I'm not sure what you mean by "engaging with kids will come" Kids playing Auskick and junior football is more popular than ever.

Contrary to popular belief, whether you like it or not, the game is not dying. It's more popular than ever, more skilled than ever, and bigger than ever.
 

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Vicky Park said:
You take a seat - or more accurately the officials direct you to where seats are available, as people are running everywhere and scrambling for best available - and then you stay seated until a specific seat ticket is issued. Can take up to an hour or so. But it's a festive feeling, the cafes are all open, music playing, lots of diversions to keep you happy. Once you have the ticket you can of course leave, and come back later in the day for the game or pre-match entertainment.
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That's pretty damn cool. Can you save seats for people?
 
boxmatrix said:
From what I've read from your posts in this thread, I can say one thing "old men don't like change."

I'm not sure if you're an old man or not, but one thing you have to accept is that the AFL is a changing game. The way the game is being played is always going to be different. Accept that. You also have to know that AFL attendances are higher than ever. 1 in 20 Australians have a membership with a club. Add on the AFL memberships as well and their are even more supporters. I'm not sure what you mean by "engaging with kids will come" Kids playing Auskick and junior football is more popular than ever.

Contrary to popular belief, whether you like it or not, the game is not dying. It's more popular than ever, more skilled than ever, and bigger than ever.
Click to expand...

You're right, the game is bigger than it ever was in many ways, but I don't think that Ant85 was necessarily disputing that. In fact, I think that he was suggesting that the game has become so big that it's broken free of the origins of the game itself, from it's own past. There's a question here: In detaching itself from the geographic and social realities which gave rise to the game and which sustained it for so long, has football become detached from its own soul?

For a lot of people, perhaps including you, the question is irrelevant. Other people are happy with the fact that football is now a slick production and a corporate bonanza, and there's no doubt that the bright lights and loud noises of the 'match day experience' are attracting crowds (on most days). And you're right to say that the game is more skilful that it once was. But I know that there are many people who not only think that the game has evolved, but that it's evolved into something different from what they knew, into a game they find harder and harder to recognise.

Maybe this is as relevant or meaningful to you as a bunch of old blokes in a bar recalling the glory days of Fitzroy. I'm not an old man (not bodily; the head's another matter), but I think that those stories matter, and I think if AFL football puts too much distance between its 'product' and its past, then it will inevitably leave behind much of its human heritage as well.
 
legendstatus said:
So Richmond currently avg 6 more people per game than the Pies with one round to go. 118 more people for the year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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That explains why KB is giving away double passes to their game against North this week
 
Ant85 said:
I still do. The past 15 years has been the worst in the club's entire history, and may hurt them in new generation support (like Melbourne) if they don't turn it around quickly. But even in the past 15 years, they have regularly been in the top 3 most attended games with Collingwood and Essendon



That's a tricky one. I feel Collingwood's morph into a soulless enterprise is symptomatic of how the AFL has directed the competition, so can Collingwood do anything independent notwithstanding a revamp in the AFL's approach? I think the issue is greater than just us. The AFL is bent on Americanising our game, maybe to attract US viewers in the long-term? I'm not sure what the reasoning is for the AFL's obsession with trying to emulate American sports management.

As for Collingwood itself, it hurt the community when it not only left Victoria Park, but completely abandoned it for years until the VFL started playing its games there. There was an ambition to become the biggest club in the land, which is great, I do support the move, but it could've been handled better. The community, I felt, was left behind in the Vic Park that was left to rot.

Having Vic Park meant Collingwood had a location. Abbotsford and Collingwood, these neighbourhoods formed the geographic heart and soul of the club, and that's important for a sense of community. I grew up in the northwest, Essendon territory, and when they won the flag in 2000, Mount Alexander Road was covered in red and black everything for the entire off-season (as awful as it was). When we won the flag in 2010, there wasn't anything of the kind in Smith St. Instead, we went to Gosch's Paddock for our celebrations (!!).

How do you reclaim something that was built for over 100 years and tossed away without a thought?

The club's trying to recreate the Victoria Park spirit by adopting the Ponsford Stand as "our stand", but at the moment the lack of community stems from the club's outlook. It views its supporters as cash cows, before a community, and that entire outlook first needs to change. It also needs to re-invest into recreating that geographic heartland, in Collingwood/Abbotsford, working with the local council, Vic Park etc.
Click to expand...

This is a very interesting post. I'd like to return to it later when I have more time. It touches on a lot of important issues. I was working on Victoria Park as a consultant for Yarra Council, at the time the Pies were gearing up to leave, and in the following years, so I have some views on this. Will get back to you.
 
In the earlier games I was frustrated in buying seats (AFL member). In previous years you could purchase home games seating with membership.
This year you had to go on line which was not only more expensive (buying 5 seats) but when I tried to book, I could not select seats if I was leaving a blank one. This made it difficult as buying 5 seats always left me with a seat one one side of both, so I gave up.

I then tried to buy seats per game but most came up for top tier. Don't like top tier as difficult to walk up there and also the kids preferred closer to the game. When the game was played, was annoyed to see so many empty spots in the lower section. AFL weren't interested when I emailed them. I also know of a couple of families that had similar experiences to me. Best available is rubbish.

Later games okay as I had a choice and was able to purchase tickets.
 
Maggie5 said:
In the earlier games I was frustrated in buying seats (AFL member). In previous years you could purchase home games seating with membership.
This year you had to go on line which was not only more expensive (buying 5 seats) but when I tried to book, I could not select seats if I was leaving a blank one. This made it difficult as buying 5 seats always left me with a seat one one side of both, so I gave up.

I then tried to buy seats per game but most came up for top tier. Don't like top tier as difficult to walk up there and also the kids preferred closer to the game. When the game was played, was annoyed to see so many empty spots in the lower section. AFL weren't interested when I emailed them. I also know of a couple of families that had similar experiences to me. Best available is rubbish.

Later games okay as I had a choice and was able to purchase tickets.
Click to expand...

The whole ticketing thing really doesn't work well. Seriously, there were so many empty seats in the Ponsford Stand last Friday night - virtually whole rows without people in them. We all know those seats are allocated to Collingwood members, who for whatever reason are not able to get to the game. But surely there must be a way of giving them to fans who are desperate to see a game, who would occupy the empty seat, who would cheer and barrack for the Pies (there's a thought), and would appreciate the free entry.

I know this has been covered ad nauseum, but if the club had a way of establishing which seats are to be empty for games (by members notifying via email or some efficient electronic notification system), then they could be allocated on a first come first serve basis. It would be a win win situation. We would more often than not fill the Ponsford, while at the same time assisting our disadvantaged fans. So what if no additional revenue is made from those seats - the members have already paid for them.
 
VP, the only parties that would really benefit from re used tickets without charge would be the caterers and therefore the MCC. There would be a cost for ticket reallocation so without a benefit to someone it won't happen.
 
Vicky Park said:
The whole ticketing thing really doesn't work well. Seriously, there were so many empty seats in the Ponsford Stand last Friday night - virtually whole rows without people in them. We all know those seats are allocated to Collingwood members, who for whatever reason are not able to get to the game. But surely there must be a way of giving them to fans who are desperate to see a game, who would occupy the empty seat, who would cheer and barrack for the Pies (there's a thought), and would appreciate the free entry.

I know this has been covered ad nauseum, but if the club had a way of establishing which seats are to be empty for games (by members notifying via email or some efficient electronic notification system), then they could be allocated on a first come first serve basis. It would be a win win situation. We would more often than not fill the Ponsford, while at the same time assisting our disadvantaged fans. So what if no additional revenue is made from those seats - the members have already paid for them.
Click to expand...

Eddie and Co are big in making the most money for Collingwood as Possible.

Maybe could sell those seats
 
MarkT2 said:
VP, the only parties that would really benefit from re used tickets without charge would be the caterers and therefore the MCC. There would be a cost for ticket reallocation so without a benefit to someone it won't happen.
Click to expand...

I appreciate that costs are involved, and that the club is not a charity. But it would be a way of giving something back to fans. It might also generate some buzz and supporter passion. There was more of that at Vic Park last Saturday, with a particularly raucous (drunk:drunk:) group in the Bob Rose Stand. But I appreciated their enthusiasm, and they were funny too.
 
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